Redeem,

I have to agree with DWG here. You seem to be lapsing lately into a woe-is-me pity-party with your last few posts.

Redeem, you don�t need a �support group�. You don�t have a medical condition that fell upon you randomly. You CHOSE to have an affair. You DECIDED to do it. You also are not a �victim�. You were the perpetrator. Your husband and family are the victims, not you.

Likewise, the Biblical references seem to be ALL ABOUT YOU. Yes, God is �good and just to forgive us when we confess and repent of our sins�. Yes, Jesus said: �let he who is without sin cast the first stone� and �I do not condemn you�.now go and sin no more�. There is no question that God will forgive your adultery if you sincerely confess and repent to Him. That subject is for your faith and between you, your clergy, and your Creator.

That is NOT the subject of MB. This place (including the articles, people, and books herein) is about repairing and recovering MARRIAGES. God may very well forgive you, while at the same time your husband and family may very well not. Your husband may very well, forgiveness or not, choose not to be your husband anymore. He is perfectly within his moral prerogative under the Bible to cast you aside and marry another woman at some later point. Your adultery released him from his vows to you.

If you want to avoid that fate, then I suggest you focus a great deal less on yourself and a great deal more on restoring your husband to his rightful place in your life and your heart. Meet HIS ENs unconditionally. Tell HIM everything. Make amends to HIM. Show HIM remorse. Repent to HIM. Love HIM unselfishly.

Sorry, but your (understandable and commendable) anguish, guilt, and self-loathing is very secondary here. It pales in comparison to the damage you have inflicted upon others who you vowed to love, honor, and cherish�forsaking all others. They didn�t ask for this and they, unlike you, didn�t get to choose.

I understand your points. Firstly, I want to say, that I recognized that I was starting in on self-pity. My writing and sharing what I did was helping me to work through that. It has, at times, been so crushing that I fear I will fall into a dark depression. It's good to talk these feelings through, as that will keep me strong in working towards loving him unselfishly, etc.

It's funny to me, because on some threads, people are almost attacking the WS by saying he/she is not remorseful enough. And here, I am saying I am so remorseful that I feel worthless and like I can't face my friends and family, that also isn't enough. What more can the WS do other than feel awful for what he/she did and try to remedy the situation?

And I do want a support group, just like anyone who is hurting and struggling would benefit from a support group. If wayward spouses do not have support, do not self-examine and come to understand why they entered into an affair, they are more likely to enter into future affairs, no? They need accountability, too, and to know they're not alone in this journey towards healing. Support groups can help with all of that.

So, I understand your desire to keep me in my place of feeling remorseful and unselfishly loving my BH through this process, I also need to make sure that I do whatever it takes to make sure I don't feel tempted to enter into an inappropriate relationship in the future. That means that I also need to heal in this process. Please let me heal, too, and I promise I am not feeling bad for myself. I just need an outlet, I'm hurting, too, because I feel HORRIBLE for what I did.

And my BH moved out. We're split up. It's hard not to remain hopeful when I feel like I've already lost...

My BH and I just had a 4-hour chat online with each other. Chatting online is actually a helpful way to discuss some hard questions. We're both too emotional at times to have face-to-face discussions so this was really a great way to talk.

Hi SDCW - You wrote, �This is NOT the subject of MB. This place (including the articles, people, and books herein) is about repairing and recovering MARRIAGES.� If you mean that scriptures about forgiveness can�t help rebuild a marriage, I�m inclined to disagree with you � the path to a recovered marriage requires the participation of two healthy partners. For the Christian wayward, this includes rebuilding a relationship with God.

A repentant wayward is what BS�s are hoping/praying for, right? A part of the healing process for waywards is finally to look inward and admit they have sinned, and make amends with those they have sinned against, including especially God. In situations where God is the only one who forgives repentant waywards, they still have to continue their lives, knowing what they did was wrong, and determining not to do it again (which is what repentance means).

You also wrote, �Redeem, you don�t need a �support group.� I disagree with this as well. There is a lot of information (books and sermons, for example) about how to forgive others, but not much about how to be the one who needs forgiveness. It has only been a few days since Redeem confessed to her H � they are both struggling to find ways to survive the immediate crisis. For the wayward, that means dealing with soul searching and repentance, which are necessary for progress in the M.

God bless,
Rose

Reedemed - You are in crisis mode right now, hoping everything can be fixed quickly. The bad news is that the road to personal recovery and marriage recovery will more than likely be very long. It can actually take years. Take deep breaths and remember that you only have to live one minute at a time.

Using the Bible as a guide and for comfort is valuable, and good advice for waywards who are at the place of finally feeling regret and remorse. Seeking concurrent professional individual counseling and marriage counseling is also helpful. My therapist sent me to a secular support group for people with anxiety disorders. I took advantage of whatever resources I was offered in the effort to become a healthier person.

If you don�t have insurance or money for counseling � do you have a church that offers free marriage and individual counseling ? That was another resource my H and I were fortunate to have. By the way, we never separated, but it took 7 years before our M began to feel �normal� again. Last summer was the first summer since my PA that my H was able to feel relaxed and enjoy the summer holidays and birthdays that had previously been darkened by triggers of the A.

Having written all that � do your soul searching and personal recovery when you are by yourself. When you are with your H, or talking to him, his feelings have to be more important than your own. That�s a part of the fog that has to lift for waywards. Our first �instinct� is to defend ourselves. Instead of being on the defensive and thinking (or speaking, or yelling) about our own feelings and problems related to the A, we have to learn to listen to and understand how our H views the A, and how it affects him. He is not foggy, so his viewpoint will more than likely be the voice of reason we need to hear.

Even if he is ranting and raving and not making much sense, he is still not foggy like a wayward is, and we can learn from paying attention to his pain. (Do not stay in a situation where you are physically in danger, obviously. Boundaries also need to be set regarding emotional abuse, which is why it is good to have a 3rd party present, such as an MC.)

A side note just to show how things can really, finally turn around. We are 8 years into recovery now. An interesting thing happened the other night. I had a trigger and was struggling with guilt about something to do with my A. I shared it with my H, and he very lovingly took my hand and gently said, �Rose (not my real name), you are going to have to let it go.� He didn�t mean it in a harsh way (like, �Get over it�). It was more like I could really feel his forgiveness and he was giving me permission to forgive myself.

Hang in there, Redeemed.
God bless,

Rose

awwwwwww
That's so wonderful Rose.

"That's so wonderful Rose." - I know, Pep, and a relief, as well. Also, I can't help smiling at the irony of the BS telling the WS to "let it go." lol.

Redeem_me, you've already had a much better response than the one I could give you, but since I made the comment and you asked, I feel it only right that I give you my answer:

She gave me no choice because she would not break it off with the OM, and yes, she had no remorse about the abuse and pain she caused. Even if she had broken it off (and by the way, from a friend I've heard that the affair is likely over now) and had expressed a willingness to try to recover the marriage, I might have tried.

But she asked for a divorce and I started the process moving. Not once did she try to stall or give any indication that she wanted otherwise. She gave herself 100% to OM and turned her back on everything we'd had and walked away.

The clock started ticking when I hired my attorney. Thanks to the wise and wonderful people here at MB, they kept me from folding up like a $2 suitcase and becoming a doormat. I went into Plan B, and now - a month post-divorce - I'm still in it.

I'm sorry if this is a bit rambling. It's late at night and I have root canal surgery first thing in the morning. God bless.

This is the KEY portion of this passage. "Leave" your life of sin.

Part of the MB recovery is that you "leave" your OM by initiating no contact for life. It is recommended that you write a "NO CONTACT" letter to your OM and then have your BH review it and HE mails it. Is that possible in your situation? What was the context of your affair? Was he a family friend? A work friend? Church friend? A stranger you picked up in a bar?

Please share more of your story so we can help you better.

Good for you for coming here and seeking help. I promise you have found one of the GREATEST places for recovery.

I met him online initially. We were chatting friends at the beginning, but then decided to meet. Because we started as friends, it was particularly hard to not feel like we were in a great relationship. We let things naturally progress as though we were dating. But in retrospect, I see now how we grew to be dependent on and needy for each other. We were each other's "only friend" when it came to this secret (meaning, only we knew each other's secret about being involved in this affair). It gave us a false sense of love for the other person, although I feel we did truly care for each other.

It's definitely over though.

The last contact I had with him was a letter he sent through his wife's email. It was essentially a "no contact" kind of letter.

His wife and I had a text chat prior to that letter. I don't know her, but I could sense from our chat that she loves him greatly, is a confident, forgiving, gracious person. She said that they have been talking and growing together, that he's showing his commitment to her. Honestly, it sounds like they are going to get through this just fine. It's good to hear because I didn't want to break apart his family either, but I honestly am struggling with feelings of jealousy (why so easy for them, but not for us?). It makes me feel like they must have a better marriage at its core, they must be better friends, etc. I know, I shouldn't be comparing. I'm really just sharing another thing I'm struggling with.

My BH is still moved out. He will be for awhile, at least to the end of next week. Although, he's spending the night at our house tonight due to his ballgame tonight and having to get to work early tomorrow. I'm grateful that he is talking to me and is able to be around me, but it's still hard for him, I can tell. We are making progress, though, even though they are baby steps. He even gave me a hug yesterday.

FEELING remorseful is good. It is right. It is necessary. But it isn�t enough to restore you marriage. Feeling bad without actively making amends is just self-pity. Try this as well (it is all spelled out here on MB):


The answer to all these questions below are in SAA and here on MB.com too. Have you read up on Dr. Harley�s principles of Just Compensation, Care & Protection, the Policy of Radical Honesty, & the Policy of Extraordinary Precautions?


Searching for �why did I have the affair?� usually becomes an exercise in excuse-making and unnecessary self-confusion. You want to know the �whys� and �hows�? It is very simple�

You, and all waywards, fall into affairs because you failed at multiple points to strictly adhere to your values and to strictly defend appropriate boundaries. You did this because, at the time, you felt somehow entitled to cross lines that you never have condoned your husband to cross, no matter what the �circumstances�. It all may start with a simple inappropriate flirt, personal conversation, or gesture. Once emotions get stirred up, it is all a slippery slope there forward to selling out everything/everyone important to you. People usually will adjust their values to suit their immediate feelings, foolishly not realizing at the time that they are throwing away something noble and permanent for the short-term allure of something degrading and temporary. By the time they arrive at where you are now, they have usually done so much damage--all for so little.

I hope you can salvage your marriage and family, believe me, I do. You are going to have to do a lot of work to convince your BH that he can entrust his heart and life to you again. And once you do, please don�t ever even get close to dipping your toe in the water of an OM again. God Bless and Good Luck.

RM, please tell me what you have read here on this site (articles) and what MB books you have started reading?

Did you write the no contact letter and ask your husband to approve and mail it?

What lifestyle changes have you made to eliminate any avenues for OM to contact you if he decides to?

Do you understand what EPs (extraordinary precautions) are? If so, explain them here so we can make sure you understand them.

These are things that need done immediately. Often WS's want to skip these and jump right into emotional needs. You cannot skip these steps.

the advice you are getting from so many is exactly what you need to read over and over and pay attention to. READ the books... even better ... ring the Harleys and begin working with them... its worth eating tuna and rice for a month if it can save your M.

I am a FWW, yes I cheated on my husband. It is the most shameful thing I've done in my life. The years can roll on but yet that remains... but it need not define you. Self pity is not anyway to attract your H back into the M ... my DH told me "I do not want to be married to Mrs I'm so sorry" .... he didn't want to always hear that... he wanted to see actions to back those words up. Why would he want to trust a woman who had just crapped on him without some active behaviour on my part to protect him and our M.. our family to take another chance on me?

THAT is where you now need to start looking and when people like Pep and sexymama and all those others point you in that direction,,, don't walk... RUN.

The reason you cheated can be one or many... but really it does not matter because you see ... THERE IS NO EXCUSE!!
THAT is what you need to not only understand but fully accept

NO EXCUSE!!

Remorse is a good start but by itself it means little in the bigger context of saving your M and helping your injured H.

Now start actions to back up that remorse... if in doubt or confused go get help from the Harley's .... I don't think I could have saved my M without professional help ... and it would have been great to have the Harley s in my country ... so take advantage of something that works & gives the best chance for recovery or to make a new M with your H.
I know the first step is often the hardest to take that's why I suggest getting help from the Harley's if you are a bit stuck.

the MB forum is a great help as well... now get started ... just remember inaction & self pity = M end. It can't be simpler than that. Your H will probably only give you so much time so MOVE IT!! He is hurting!!

I hear on the "almost attacking" WS on the remorse issue. I'm not sure there is a good answer to this though -- a WS thread could so easily turn into a forum for justification. There are way more BS's than WS's on this thread which makes sense.

If you keep coming back here you are either brave or stupid. I think you are brave.

Again, take a breath. Remember, you cannot give from an empty plate. Or, as a poster on my thread said, in a plane emergency, put on your own oxygen mask first. You must take care of yourself. Wallowing in a pool of shame is both self indulgent and not helpful. Decide to devote X number of hours to this enormous problem a day, then go do something else.

You seem paralyzed with fear right now. Take a small action which is directly related to saving your marriage but won't consume you. I suggest reading through the How to Survive Infidelity articles on the home page. Just read them -- you don't have to DO anything. Read them and let your mind start to process what's there.

You are not making good decisions right now, so try to make as few as possible. Try to limit it to deciding what to cook for dinner or watch on TV.

If your BH has moved out, use the time constructively. Grieve. You have experienced a loss. BH is NOT going to want to see your sadness. Read. Rest.

I think what some folks are trying to say is remorse isn't a word, it's a feeling.

[tj] Saddestwife, did you see sexymamabear's two posts to RedeemMe above? It would be good for you to answer those questions as well on your thread. [/tj]

SW, this sentence is a bit confusing; or maybe I'm just a bit confused today. Who knows?

Could you explain what you meant. I almost took this as you saying we were "almost attacking", but I'm hoping I misunderstood.

It feels like a personal attack at the time and since the majority ot posters are BS it can be rationalized as misdirected anger. It took a while for it to penetrate to me that everyone was sincerely trying to help and that those comments I am most reactive to are the ones I need to pay the closest attention to. For me, in the beginning the posts I simply could not ignore or question were from other WS, especially WW, which is why I am leaping in here.

The most natural instinct in the world when under attack is to defend - it's what has kept the species alive. Any WS who shows up here and hangs in there has likely been beating themselves up for the duration of the deception, and likely so has everyone they know. So it may feel like the forum is piling on, not trying to help.

That's why I keep telling redeem me to come back here, no matter how it feels. Because once she starts to grasp the truth of what she is being told and the actions she needs to take she will hopefully feel what is being said as the support it is.

Will do susieq:)

This is a good point and it is typical behavior of the foggy minded to dismiss things they don't want to hear as "BS bitterness." What makes it even more funny is it usually happens on threads where FORMER WS' are saying the exact same thing!

Noting the reaction of other board BS' can be a good indicator of the reaction one's own BS. So hopefully, other WS are watching and listening..