EPs are a lot more than just that. What EPs are in place to ensure that this will not happen again with a new OM?

Guess I haven't gotten that far in the book.....

Not just from the book. There is a lot of it on threads and on this site. Learning is so much fun, isn't it?

Scotland is right, that is not enough. It looks like you are addressing the NC issue, not the EPs, which shows your BH that your recognize your failure to protect the M and what steps you are taking to affair-proof the M into the future.

Please read this:
Extraordinary Precautions

It only takes ONE avenue, one moment, one thought and you are right back in the affair. It doesn't matter that you THINK he won't contact you, it matters that you lose that avenue. Close it. Seal it tight. LEAVE NO STONE UN- TURNED!!!!!


It's not a matter of "IF".....it's a matter of "WHEN"......



This is a PATHETIC excuse.......I can imagine your conversation (because I had the SAME one with H.....) with your H..."well honey I know I had an affair and ripped your heart out but my phone number is great. Everyone knows it.....it would be a hassle......"......We BS's just "enjoy" these conversations ourselves.........

Plug that hole up SW........

Not

So I read the thread on EP's and honestly either I have already done it, except the cell phone, or it simply doesn't apply. We have no separate anything, I'm a mom, he works at home, I rarely go anywhere, etc.

I can always set up another email address, borrow a cell phone, even go buy one. Part of the appeal of the A for me was the intellectual challenge. I'm going to have to exercise some discipline regardless.

SW, you had an A. That means that you weren't doing SOMETHING right in regards to affair proofing your marriage. THAT is where you have to plug up the holes.

How did you have your affair? Sorry if you answered this before.

Guess what???......

This is not something WE Betrayed Spouse's don't already know. While you, the wayward think you were so smart in duping us the first time, once the cat is out, we aren't so quick to trust you again.

The biggest thing BS's want to see from the Wayward is the WILLINGNESS to change. You above answer shows not only a lack of willingness but laziness.........


You SHOULD have done that the FIRST time around....but you DIDN'T....

From this whole post, if *I* were you poor, betrayed H, I would go directly to D.....

Not2fun

He was some random stranger in a bar......

Well, not2fun, maybe that is exactly what he should do.

Or maybe that is exactly what I should do.

Your sarcasm isn't winning you any brownie points, so knock it off......

You can give us a million reasons in the world about why you can't or won't or shouldn't have to do certain EPs.....however it all boils down to half-azz measures. And your H will eventually see right through it. Do it RIGHT the first time.......

You SAY you want to save this marriage......so SHOW it.......

Not2fun

Actually, I am not being one bit sarcastic.

There are limits on what I am willing to do and for how long.

This forum has helped me recognize that.

My H is emotionally abusive. Trust me. He would agree. He is trying to change -- I see it-- but I trust him about as much as he trusts me.

If I'm not willing to do anything he asks, and I'm just not because I can no longer tolerate being suffocated and emotionally abused, I should divorce.

The ONLY way to A proof my M is for my H to find a way to be nice to me.

I chase the idea round and round my head and I always end up with the same result.

The only paradigm I can come up with that may save it is if we abandon the win/lose approach. If he wants to put a GPS on my car and I don't want him to but let him anyway, it is a win in his column. In 35 years, you develop a lot of spread sheets with this approach.

If we decided to take certain actions together, that's different. But that isn't the way it works.

I'm thinking I need to stay off this forum if I want to develop a different paradigm because I hear a lot about all the things I have to do for him, and not one syllable about what it might be reasonable to expect him to do for me.

Like, maybe, be nice to me for an entire 24 hours. What a concept. And before you get all hot and bothered, I have been wanting him to be nice to me for 24 hours for years.

And then I think I better stay on here because it is helping me to decide whether there is anything left to work with.

Yesterday, the answer was no because he was a jerk. Today, the answer is no because you all are asking me to do stuff I'm not willing to do that HE hasn't asked me to do. When enough no's get added up in a row, I'll file.

I don't know that this is a good place for the WS to come because there doesn't seem to be any balance at all in what is said. For example, I wish someone had said to me early on that when H is being hateful I should say "I understand you are angry and in pain, but you are saying things that are hurting our marriage and I want to save our marriage so I am leaving for now but I want to talk when we are both calm." That seems reasonable and consistent with the SAA approach. What I heard was sit there and take it because you deserve it. However true that might be, it didn't help matters even a little bit. I wish I I had understood that to sit there and take it was hurting our chances of reconciliation. Damage done now, but you folks might want to consider that. Or not.

What I won't do is cheat again. I'll divorce him first.

You do things because they are the right thing to do and you know they will make your marriage better in the long run, not ONLY because your H asks you to.

SW,

Actually, your ACTIONS have already proven that there are NO limits on what you will or won't do to make YOURSELF happy.


Prove it! Bring you husband here so we can finally hear the other side of the story. He could obviously use the support since your approach has been seriously lacking in compassion or humility.

Wrong again! The ONLY way you A proof your M is through EPs and working together toward building romantic love between you. Keeping score is gonna get you no where fast, which you think you would have already learned. It's not about winning and losing or some ridiculous power struggle as you are portraying it. The only way either of you win is if you work together to rebuild from the ground up.

Wow, that is just awesome. Twenty-five plus pages and all your concerned about is what YOUR gonna get out of it. I'm shocked that you are still in the ME ME ME phase after reading the MB principles.

Like I said...prove it. Bring you BH here so we can get his side of the story. Otherwise, this is just more blameshifting, excuse making and history rewriting to cover up for your actions. I HIGHLY doubt from the tone and condescendence of your words here that you have been the poor abused wife you are portraying yourself to be. Maybe it's just the written word, but I don't think so. SW, you own 50% of the condition of the M pre-a. You contibuted just as much BAD things in your M as your BH.


Sorry, you're not gonna be handled with kid gloves here. Being told directly just how appalling your actions have been is what needs to happen for you to take a HARD look in the mirror and own your part in your circumstances. And believe me when I tell you, there is absolutely NOTHING more hateful than the pain and hurt you have inflicted on the man you vowed to love, honor and cherish. You want to cry foul over harsh words after you where the one that CHOOSE to wield the most damaging weapon of all. You ripped out your BH's heart and you still can't for the life of you show compassion over it. Your words here betray you SW. You are as transparent as glass right now and every BS here is seeing right through you. It's still all about you, which is what got you into this mess in the first place.

Let me ask you this SW...if this is what we see from the words you have written here don't you think it is reasonable to assume that is what your BH is seeing too since he's the one M to you??? Something for you to think about...or not.

Want2Stay

So, if he's not going to be nice to you you're going to keep having an affair. But then you turn around and say you'll divorce him before you have another affair.

So you're going to divorce him unless he starts to be nice to you?

If he's so emotionally abusive, why are you still with him?

A "win" in his column? Let's see... he puts a GPS on your car... that means he feels more secure in your whereabouts (a win for him), and it means you're less likely to face unwarranted suspicion from him (a win for you). A successful EP. Another small step forward on the road to restoring your relationship. That's win-win. Not win-lose. Saddest, can you really not see that?

As I said yesterday, you're keeping long accounts. You keep talking about "years" of neglect. How many years back does your speadsheet's "Table of Wrongs He Committed Against Me" extend? Does the spreadsheet ever get cleared? In other words, has your paradigm no place for forgiveness? Seems to me you can't bring yourself to say you want it, or behave like you want it, because you can't put yourself in his shoes long enough to grant it.

That is a lose-lose paradigm. Keep it up and, at the end, you'll be left with a very long spreadsheet table.

He hasn't been nice to you for 24 hours in "years"? I frankly doubt the accuracy of that statement. But anyway, you want "nice" from him now, in the wake of your affair (which for him has been akin to an F-5 emotional tornado), and he doesn't feel very nice, and he could sure use your help in picking up the emotional wreckage & salvaging some things (like, his marriage); and yet you've made that help conditional.

The thing about MB is, you (personally) need to be all-in for it to work. It would also help if you & your H could be speaking the same language. Have you asked your H to come on here?

What a good example you are of someone who is well educated and intelligent getting in their own way.

It's very clear in many of your posts that you "think you know better" than MB advice.

That coupled with the excuses and blame shifting any time you are faced with having to do anything that makes you uncomfortable is NOT going to help you save your M.

Your M is on life support because of your affair. Do you GET this?

Hearing your excuses about why you don't need EPs and don't want to counsel with the Harleys is a huge indication to me that you DON'T GET IT.

If you were to counsel with the Harleys, they would tell your H to stop lovebusting you. They would tell him how damaging this is to your M. They would also give him support by outlining a solid plan to make him feel safe again and give him some hope that you two can restore the love in your M. He NEEDS this right now. Do you GET this?

SW, your husband hasn't asked you to do some of the things that the posters on here have asked you to, because he doesn't KNOW what to ask for. MOST "normal" people don't know how to recover after an affair. All of my friends and family told me to cut and run. "Once a cheater, always a cheater." I know that that doesn't HAVE to be it. I know that, through MB, it IS possible to recover from an affair AND to have a better marriage than I had BEFORE.

I may never recover my marriage, and I have learned to be okay with that. I hate for you to throw away your chance to have an exceptional marriage. The only cost to you is to listen to the people on here and do what they suggest. Why won't you take that chance? What are you scared of?

No one here suggests that you live in an abusive marriage. We are reluctant to listen to your words right now about that abuse because we have heard our own WSs history re-write. While it is true that you didn't have an exceptional marriage before and your husband was most likely guilty of committing emotional abuse on you in the past, you have used these emotional abuses as your justifications in your mind. Until you see that there was NO justification for the choice you made, you will continue to blame your spouse.

Saying that you do not blame your husband for your choice to have an affair and then saying that the is never nice to you and he hasn't been nice to you for "years." THESE are actions that speak louder than words. You continue to blame.

BTW, I will not be to blame if you decide that you want to DIVORCE your husband because you are unwilling to do any of the things that the other wise posters have suggested to you. I have my own marriage to be responsible for, and that is ENOUGH.

HUH???

Have you read the basic concepts?????

Meeting ENs and avoiding Lovebusters. This isn't rocket science.

But for heaven's sakes...you had an AFFAIR. He is on the floor bleeding because of the injury you inflicted on him. You want him to get up and make you feel good about yourself when you haven't done ANY of the steps that are designed for you to begin the process of healing this injury.

Stop making this more complicated than it has to be.

The Harleys have been doing this for a long time AND KNOW BETTER THAN YOU DO about how to save a marriage.