Welcome to the
Marriage Builders® Discussion Forum

This is a community where people come in search of marriage related support, answers, or encouragement. Also, information about the Marriage Builders principles can be found in the books available for sale in the Marriage Builders® Bookstore.
If you would like to join our guidance forum, please read the Announcement Forum for instructions, rules, & guidelines.
The members of this community are peers and not professionals. Professional coaching is available by clicking on the link titled Coaching Center at the top of this page.
We trust that you will find the Marriage Builders® Discussion Forum to be a helpful resource for you. We look forward to your participation.
Once you have reviewed all the FAQ, tech support and announcement information, if you still have problems that are not addressed, please e-mail the administrators at mbrestored@gmail.com
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 6,643
Q
Member
OP Offline
Member
Q
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 6,643
The Will of God vs. The Will of Man -

Soon after my husband left me, God turned my heart to Him.
Through reading His Word, my hope and faith increased. God began to show me that all things are possible through Him. I started praying for my husband and my marriage. Before I ever heard the terms "stand in the gap" and "stand for your marriage", God was calling me to do just that.

I truly believed that God was able to heal my marriage. However, the enemy delighted in placing stumbling blocks in my way. They came through things I read or through well-intentioned comments from friends and family. The one most frequently used was, "Your husband has his own free will and even if you pray, he ultimately will choose what he wants to do." How cunning the enemy is!
Satan tells us that it doesn't matter what you pray because man can choose what he wants. But God tells us to have faith and believe and to pray without ceasing.

What freedom I felt when I finally realized that yes, man does have his free will, but God will stop at nothing to bring it into alignment with His will

Proverbs 16:9 - "We can make our plans, but the Lord determines
our steps."

Proverbs 19:21 - "You can make many plans, but the Lord's
purpose will prevail."

Proverbs 20:24 - "How can we understand the road we travel? It
is the Lord who directs our steps."

Jeremiah 10:23 - "I know, Lord, that a person's life is not his
own. No one is able to plan his own course."

Praise God for His faithfulness. He showed me in His Word that He has many ways of changing the hearts of men and redirecting their paths. Yes, man can choose, but God is sovereign in His perfect plan. If He calls us to pray, then believe that He is the God of the impossible and can change the heart of even the hardest of men.

Throughout Scripture you will find many examples of God turning the hearts of kings and men to Him to fulfill His purpose. How is this done? Through the work of the Holy Spirit.

Ezekiel 11:19 - "And I will give them singleness of heart and
put a new spirit within them. I will take away their hearts of
stone and give them tender hearts instead, so they will obey my
laws and regulations. Then they will truly be my people, and I
will be their God."

Jeremiah 24:7 - "I will give them hearts that will recognize me
as the Lord. They will be my people, and I will be their God,
for they will return to me wholeheartedly."

Ezekiel 36:26-27 - "And I will give you a new heart with new
and right desires, and I will put a new spirit in you. I will
take out your stony heart of sin and give you a new obedient
heart. And I will put my Spirit in you so you will obey my
laws and do whatever I command."

Whenever the enemy comes against you with lies and tries to convince you that your prayers don't matter because your spouse is choosing to go his/her own way, remember the Word of God. God has called us to stand and pray for our spouse. He is faithful and His Word is true. He is the one who will change their hearts and place His Spirit in them. He will call them to obedience and repentance. Continue to stand and pray because even though man might make his plans, God directs his steps. With God all things are possible.


May you walk with G-d today and have a very blessed day because he loves you more than anyone ever could.


BS 52, FWH 53, Married 1-1-84
D-day 5-14-07, WH moved in with OW
Plan A 9 months, DARK Plan B 3-17-08 until 3-2-09
WH and OW broke up 1-09
Started over 7-09
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 537
S
Member
Offline
Member
S
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 537
Queenie i love your quotes. Exactly what was needed ... atleast for me. I still read of your thread to get a glimpse of your wisdom and it helps me so much in my own recovery. Yours is one of the insights i look to when i hit a stumbling block along the way and well... Just wanted to thank you!


Truth can stand on it's own two feet....A lie needs support....FRM
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 430
P
Member
Offline
Member
P
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 430
Thank you, Queenie, I always ask God for a sign and he has given me one through you. I am still praying for my H and for my marriage because I know that my marriage still has a chance for recovery even if my H doesn't.


BW-me 47yrs
WH-him 50yrs
married 24yrs, together 25 yrs,DD 25yrs, DD 22yrs(granddaughter born 3/14/2012).
D-Day#1 discovered cell phone calls 6/30/2009
D-Day#2 7/26/2009
Plan D 06/2012/WH served 8/17/12
WH left 7/25/2009/WH moved in with OW 7/29/2009
Trying to reconcile 12/30/2009/left 10/22/2010
2nd OW 8/2011? and living in Idaho.
"Dochas" Gaelic for hope which I have with me at all times because it is tattooed on my lower back.
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 2,828
B
Member
Offline
Member
B
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 2,828
Queenie,

Such a faithful, loving, shining example you continue to be for everyone.

Thank you!!

Bless you, my friend!


BS (me)
ExWS -Drac
DD 9
DSS 15
D Day 11/06
Divorced 10/01/07

"You Can't Fix Stupid" - My Mom
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 1,149
J
Member
Offline
Member
J
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 1,149
Hi Queenie! (JT waving from the northern valley)

I've missed you! Let's get together soon. Call me!


johnstwin-

"I may not know what the future holds, but I know who holds my future." -Martin Luther

Remarried my FXH 25 years to the day of our first M. God is so good-and sometimes so unexpected!

Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 2,455
H
Member
Offline
Member
H
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 2,455
Queenie, love to read Charlene Cares. I am a fan.

She never gave up hope in her marriage, her husband and in God.

thanks for sharing.


Me 55, XWH 53, M 22 years
D17, D30
alien replaces my husband "I'm not happy" -7/08
Discover OW-8/08 (his direct report and I work there also)
H moves out 10/1/08, confront Ow 10/28/08
Plan B 1/09
D final 12/09

Quote: "First thing you do is pray; when there is nothing else to do, continue to pray."
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 129
W
Member
Offline
Member
W
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 129
Queenie,

Thank you so much for this post. I really needed some encouragement today and you have given me much to ponder and to pray about.

Thank you again!

Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 862
M
Member
Offline
Member
M
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 862
I really worry about these kinds of posts........

Thinking God will return all waywards isn't really a Plan...


Plan D June 08
Me FBS 36
W 38
Married 13/1/09
The best is yet to come, with or without your WS
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 2,455
H
Member
Offline
Member
H
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 2,455
Sometimes it is the only plan and the most effective one.


Me 55, XWH 53, M 22 years
D17, D30
alien replaces my husband "I'm not happy" -7/08
Discover OW-8/08 (his direct report and I work there also)
H moves out 10/1/08, confront Ow 10/28/08
Plan B 1/09
D final 12/09

Quote: "First thing you do is pray; when there is nothing else to do, continue to pray."
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 6,643
Q
Member
OP Offline
Member
Q
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 6,643
OH Vladi, I can always count on you. No, there is always that free choice/will that keeps many people apart whether it's for the right reason or not.

And you are right some marriages are better left apart.

But I deeply learned that following G-d no matter where it took me was the best possible Plan of all. My case is no secret, still undecided, and yet so much good has come out of it. I no longer think it was me, my children have their father back and my H and I are actually having a blast being together. Now if it stays as "roomates" then my plan to leave might have to come into to play. But I waited a long long time and never gave up and that's all because of G-d.

Fair enough?


BS 52, FWH 53, Married 1-1-84
D-day 5-14-07, WH moved in with OW
Plan A 9 months, DARK Plan B 3-17-08 until 3-2-09
WH and OW broke up 1-09
Started over 7-09
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 6,643
Q
Member
OP Offline
Member
Q
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 6,643
Thank you so much each one of your for the kinds words and I'm very touched that this could make a difference for you today. I learned that it was the little battles of messages that I received from this column each day that helped me the most when I was down.

JT often reminded me that G-d had a plan for me, but that he also wanted my M to reunite, however there was WH free will and so I prayed that G-d would reach my H and soften his heart. I have received more than I ever imagined and I'm so grateful for that.

Many people on here think I'm pathetic, nuts or just plain stupid. I waited a long time, worked the plans to the best of my ability, but it wasn't until JT and Mark really helped me see that my answer was in my relationship with G-d. Because that's really why we are here to have one with him. When I nurtured thast relationship above all I came to understand how powerful my G-d was working in my life, just like he wants to work in your lives.

But giving up control was so hard. I used to give Mimi fits. Mimi if you ever read on here. I miss you so much and hope you are happy in your life.


BS 52, FWH 53, Married 1-1-84
D-day 5-14-07, WH moved in with OW
Plan A 9 months, DARK Plan B 3-17-08 until 3-2-09
WH and OW broke up 1-09
Started over 7-09
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 430
P
Member
Offline
Member
P
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 430
Queenie, I too have prayed to God so much in the past year that I know that I never prayed that much before. It's terrible that it took my H affair to bring me closer to Him. I too have prayed that God to soften my H heart. I too have heard that I should leave him and that he is never coming back. Well, he came back but now he says he doesn't feel any different than he did when he came back over 6 months ago. It has been a year since I discovered his affair and now I don't think I can continue. I have always looked up to you and your never ending faith. And I still do, but I wonder if I have the strength to continue on. I am leaning toward a divorce now because I feel I have no choice


BW-me 47yrs
WH-him 50yrs
married 24yrs, together 25 yrs,DD 25yrs, DD 22yrs(granddaughter born 3/14/2012).
D-Day#1 discovered cell phone calls 6/30/2009
D-Day#2 7/26/2009
Plan D 06/2012/WH served 8/17/12
WH left 7/25/2009/WH moved in with OW 7/29/2009
Trying to reconcile 12/30/2009/left 10/22/2010
2nd OW 8/2011? and living in Idaho.
"Dochas" Gaelic for hope which I have with me at all times because it is tattooed on my lower back.
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 238
I
Member
Offline
Member
I
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 238
Thank you for posting your thoughts Charlene Cares...just what I needed this morning. I prayed for a sign and your post is what I read first. Thank you for helping me continue my faith.

Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 862
M
Member
Offline
Member
M
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 862
Fair enough Queenie. But the best Plan of all is the MB plans!


Plan D June 08
Me FBS 36
W 38
Married 13/1/09
The best is yet to come, with or without your WS
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 2,455
H
Member
Offline
Member
H
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 2,455
Originally Posted by myfamilyilove
Fair enough Queenie. But the best Plan of all is the MB plans!

Look how many MB posters have combined the MB plans with His Master Plan? You cannot discount that either.



Me 55, XWH 53, M 22 years
D17, D30
alien replaces my husband "I'm not happy" -7/08
Discover OW-8/08 (his direct report and I work there also)
H moves out 10/1/08, confront Ow 10/28/08
Plan B 1/09
D final 12/09

Quote: "First thing you do is pray; when there is nothing else to do, continue to pray."
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 430
P
Member
Offline
Member
P
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 430
Queenie, I printed out a copy of what you posted and people have requested a copy of it. So many people say what you have posted is right on the money. I believe it also. So many people meaning well say I should divorce my H especially now that he thinks things haven't gotten any better. I am leaving it in God's hands. I believe in the power of prayer and I trust Him to take care of me and to answer my prayers. So I do believe He will answer my prayers.

Still hoping and praying.


BW-me 47yrs
WH-him 50yrs
married 24yrs, together 25 yrs,DD 25yrs, DD 22yrs(granddaughter born 3/14/2012).
D-Day#1 discovered cell phone calls 6/30/2009
D-Day#2 7/26/2009
Plan D 06/2012/WH served 8/17/12
WH left 7/25/2009/WH moved in with OW 7/29/2009
Trying to reconcile 12/30/2009/left 10/22/2010
2nd OW 8/2011? and living in Idaho.
"Dochas" Gaelic for hope which I have with me at all times because it is tattooed on my lower back.
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 6,643
Q
Member
OP Offline
Member
Q
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 6,643
Hi Phoenix,

Just take care of yourself like G-d wants you to.

I liked todays' readings.

Unconventional Warfare -

"So Gideon took the men down to the water. There the LORD told
him, 'Separate those who lap the water with their tongues like
a dog from those who kneel down to drink.'" Judges 7:5

Our God is an unconventional God, and I think we can find freedom is realizing that His ways are not our ways. If we read the full story, we see that Gideon had 32,000 men initially, and the Lord whittled that number down to 300...less than 1% of its original size! Then God chose (like He so often does) the most unlikely men, which defies our logic. He chose the 300 men who drank from the water like dogs! Keep reading. God gave them victory over the large Midianite army by having those men walk into the enemy camp with trumpets and lit jars in their hands�not weapons.

Let's face it. Such a battle plan would probably not receive high marks from our most respected military leaders. But remember, God wants the glory. We have to let go of logic, because our God is a God of power and the miraculous, and it was His hand that won the battle for the obedient Gideon!

"Moses answered the people, 'Do not be afraid. Stand firm and
you will see the deliverance the LORD will bring you today. The
Egyptians you see today you will never see again. The LORD will
fight for you; you need only to be still.'" Exodus 14:13-14

Another story of how unconventional God's warfare is, the story of how the LORD opened up a miraculous path of escape in the Red Sea and delivered the Israelites from the pursuing Egyptians.
Recall also that it was God Himself who hardened Pharaoh's heart so that the Egyptians would pursue the Israelites.

God will get the glory in the battle, and He will work in our broken marriages so that He will get the glory. He has no interest in broken families and marriages being repaired so we can boast that we did it by our own efforts. Remember how pride was dealt within the heart of King Nebuchadnezzar who once said, "Is not this the great Babylon I have built as the royal residence, by my mighty power and for the glory of my majesty?"
(Daniel 4:30) God made him to eat grass like the cattle.
(Daniel 4:33)

Sure, we might not reveal pride so directly as did Nebuchadnezzar, but God knows our heart and whether we truly give Him the praise and thanksgiving for His provision and deliverance.

"The high and lofty one who lives in eternity, the Holy One,
says this: 'I live in the high and holy place with those whose
spirits are contrite and humble. I restore the crushed spirit
of the humble and revive the courage of those with repentant
hearts." Isaiah 57:15 (NLT)

More stories of God's victories displayed in unconventional ways are found in Joshua's battle at Jericho. (See Joshua 6) Another one is when King Jehoshaphat defeated a vast army after seeking the Lord in humility and then sending a praise and worship team out in front of His actual army.

Sometimes God calls us to be still, sometimes He calls us to "do something," but His ways rarely seems normal to our rational minds or to those around us. I hope we can grow in our faith from reading about how God delivers His children in the battle when they seek Him in all things. How can we not also grow in our faith about how God will deliver us from the enemy in the spiritual warfare for our spouses? Remember, God instituted marriage at the very beginning in Genesis, so His heart for restoring marriages is God-sized. Join the LORD in fighting His way for your marriage.

Of course, Jesus was Himself "unconventional," and He did not come as anyone expected at the time. Yet, our victory has been assured by His finished work on the cross. Yes, the devil seeks to demolish our marriages, families, and our hope, but...

"The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the devil's
work." 1 John 3:8

Jesus accomplished everything He set out to do and declared "It is finished!" on the cross. So, yes, we are engaged in war, but unlike conventional warfare, we may be asked to do what seems foolish to the world. But, the victory is already assured if we follow His instructions. Take up the sword of the Spirit today (i.e., the Word of God) and fight unconventional warfare by speaking truth against the enemy, following God's directions and not others' directions, and wait for the LORD's great deliverance!

"I am the LORD, the God of all mankind. Is anything too hard
for me?" Jeremiah 32:27


BS 52, FWH 53, Married 1-1-84
D-day 5-14-07, WH moved in with OW
Plan A 9 months, DARK Plan B 3-17-08 until 3-2-09
WH and OW broke up 1-09
Started over 7-09
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 6,643
Q
Member
OP Offline
Member
Q
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 6,643
Not a Charlene Cares, but wow. I thought worth reading.

Long but worth the reading


MARRIAGE

When I got home that night as my wife served dinner, I held her hand and said, I've got something to tell you. She sat down and ate quietly. Again I observed the hurt in her eyes.

Suddenly I didn't know how to open my mouth. But I had to let her know what I was thinking. I want a divorce. I raised the topic calmly.

She didn't seem to be annoyed by my words, instead she asked me softly, why?

I avoided her question. This made her angry. She threw away the chopsticks and shouted at me, you are not a man! That night, we didn't talk to each other. She was weeping. I knew she wanted to find out what had happened to our marriage. But I could hardly give her a satisfactory answer; she had lost my heart to Jane. I didn't love her anymore. I just pitied her!

With a deep sense of guilt, I drafted a divorce agreement which stated that she could own our house, our car, and 30% stake of my company.

She glanced at it and then tore it into pieces. The woman who had spent ten years of her life with me had become a stranger. I felt sorry for her wasted time, resources and energy but I could not take back what I had said for I loved Jane so dearly. Finally she cried loudly in front of me, which was what I had expected to see. To me her cry was actually a kind of release. The idea of divorce which had obsessed me for several weeks seemed to be firmer and clearer now.

The next day, I came back home very late and found her writing something at the table. I didn't have supper but went straight to sleep and fell asleep very fast because I was tired after an eventful day with Jane.

When I woke up, she was still there at the table writing. I just did not care so I turned over and was asleep again.

In the morning she presented her divorce conditions: she didn't want anything from me, but needed a month's notice before the divorce. She requested that in that one month we both struggle to live as normal a life as possible. Her reasons were simple: our son had his exams in a month's time and she didn't want to disrupt him with our broken marriage.

This was agreeable to me. But she had something more, she asked me to recall how I had carried her into out bridal room on our wedding day.

She requested that every day for the month's duration I carry her out of our bedroom to the front door ever morning. I thought she was going crazy. Just to make our last days together bearable I accepted her odd request.

I told Jane about my wife's divorce conditions. . She laughed loudly and thought it was absurd. No matter what tricks she applies, she has to face the divorce, she said scornfully.

My wife and I hadn't had any body contact since my divorce intention was explicitly expressed. So when I carried her out on the first day, we both appeared clumsy. Our son clapped behind us, daddy is holding mommy in his arms. His words brought me a sense of pain. From the bedroom to the sitting room, then to the door, I walked over ten meters with her in my arms. She closed her eyes and said softly; don't tell our son about the divorce. I nodded, feeling somewhat upset. I put her down outside
the door. She went to wait for the bus to work. I drove alone to the office.

On the second day, both of us acted much more easily. She leaned on my chest. I could smell the fragrance of her blouse. I realized that I hadn't looked at this woman carefully for a long time. I realized she was not young any more. There were fine wrinkles on her face, her hair was graying! Our marriage had taken its toll on her. For a minute I wondered what I had done to her.

On the fourth day, when I lifted her up, I felt a sense of intimacy returning. This was the woman who had given ten years of her life to me.

On the fifth and sixth day, I realized that our sense of intimacy was growing again. I didn't tell Jane about this. It became easier to carry her as the month slipped by. Perhaps the everyday workout made me stronger.

She was choosing what to wear one morning. She tried on quite a few dresses but could not find a suitable one. Then she sighed, all my dresses have grown bigger. I suddenly realized that she had grown so thin, that was the reason why I could carry her more easily.

Suddenly it hit me... she had buried so much pain and bitterness in her heart. Subconsciously I reached out and touched her head.

Our son came in at the moment and said, Dad, it's time to carry mom out. To him, seeing his father carrying his mother out had become an essential part of his life. My wife gestured to our son to come closer and hugged him tightly. I turned my face away because I was afraid I might change my mind at this last minute. I then held her in my arms, walking from the bedroom, through the sitting room, to the hallway. Her hand surrounded my neck softly and naturally. I held her body tightly; it was just like our wedding day.

But her much lighter weight made me sad. On the last day, when I held her in my arms I could hardly move a step. Our son had gone to school. I held her tightly and said, I hadn't noticed that our life lacked intimacy.

I drove to office.... jumped out of the car swiftly without locking the door. I was afraid any delay would make me change my mind...I walked upstairs. Jane opened the door and I said to her, Sorry, Jane, I do not want the divorce anymore.

She looked at me, astonished, and then touched my forehead. Do you have a fever? She said. I moved her hand off my head. Sorry, Jane, I said, I won't divorce. My marriage life was boring probably because she and I didn't value the details of our lives, not because we didn't love each other anymore. Now I realize that since I carried her into my home on our wedding day I am supposed to hold her until death do us apart.

Jane seemed to suddenly wake up. She gave me a loud slap and then slammed the door and burst into tears. I walked downstairs and drove away.

At the floral shop on the way, I ordered a bouquet of flowers for my wife. The salesgirl asked me what to write on the card. I smiled and wrote, I'll carry you out every morning until death do us apart.

That evening I arrived home, flowers in my hands, a smile on my face, I run up stairs, only to find my wife in the bed - dead.
My wife had been fighting CANCER for months and I was so busy with Jane to even notice. She knew that she would die soon and she wanted to save me from the whatever negative reaction from our son, in case we push thru with the divorce.-- At least, in the eyes of our son--- I'm a loving husband....

The small details of your lives are what really matter in a relationship. It is not the mansion, the car, property, the money in the bank. These create an environment conducive for happiness but cannot give happiness in themselves. So find time to be your spouse's friend and do those little things for each other that build intimacy. Do have a real happy marriage!

If you don't share this, nothing will happen to you.

If you do, you just might save a marriage.
Many of life's failures are people who did not realize how close they were to success when they gave up.

A CHRIST-CENTERED MARRIAGE IS A MARRIAGE THAT IS SURE TO LAST A LIFETIME.

So then, they are no longer two but one flesh. Therefore what God has joined together, let not man separate. Matthew 19:6


BS 52, FWH 53, Married 1-1-84
D-day 5-14-07, WH moved in with OW
Plan A 9 months, DARK Plan B 3-17-08 until 3-2-09
WH and OW broke up 1-09
Started over 7-09
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 2,455
H
Member
Offline
Member
H
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 2,455
Well that one brought a tear to my eyes.

There should be 3 in each marriage. You, your spouse and God first.


Me 55, XWH 53, M 22 years
D17, D30
alien replaces my husband "I'm not happy" -7/08
Discover OW-8/08 (his direct report and I work there also)
H moves out 10/1/08, confront Ow 10/28/08
Plan B 1/09
D final 12/09

Quote: "First thing you do is pray; when there is nothing else to do, continue to pray."

Link Copied to Clipboard
Forum Search
Who's Online Now
0 members (), 584 guests, and 71 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Newest Members
Bibbyryan860, Ian T, SadNewYorker, Jay Handlooms, GrenHeil
71,838 Registered Users
Building Marriages That Last A Lifetime
Copyright © 1995-2019, Marriage Builders®. All Rights Reserved.
Site Navigation
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5