You have every right to feel as you do and do what you are planning.

One thing, in case you begin to think about recovery. My FWH was one of the worst people on earth who I was going to leave as soon as the kids were gone. On discovery he became so totally aware of the crimes he had comited against me that he crumbled like your wife and even more. In fact he ended up on a locked ward for several days. This leaves me with the odd feeling of being one of the lucky ones.

If you start at any point to consider recovery please take into consideration that her reaction also makes you one of the lucky ones if anything at all can be considered lucky as a BS. It sucks, it is hard but the new person she can become now will make your formally good marriage seem even better.

Just food for thought. You have every reason and right to toss her to the curb but if you waver on that think of this.

tl, im worried about a rash decision right now. I know that you feel divorce and moving on would be best, but your wife calling and exposing her own affair is something rare. She is not a serial cheater at the moment, and as I see it, wanted to come clean. You have an excellent chance to change your marriage around, don't blow it.

((tlc))

Dr Harley says we are all wired for an A and that's why they happen so commonly (I think he says 60% of marriages). ML is completely right ~ most people don't know the first thing about protecting their M and think things like opposite sex friendship or joking or flirting is harmless. The program here would require that your W practice Extraordinary Precautions and all these things would be no-no's.

I don't know if that makes you feel any better ~ but it sure did when I learned about MB.

Just wanted to add...I'm going to bet you will feel differently about Plan D in a few hours or days. (I speak from experience, I went into Plan FU on d-day but cooled down in a couple of days)

Hang in there and we will be here if you change your mind.

TL,

I concur with Wheels, your wife's willingness to expose her A is a very rare thing. My WH only began exposing his A a month after D-day. To me that indicates someone who is willing to take accountability for their actions and a good chance for recovery if you chose to try.


I will not lie, recovery is HARD. There are still days I want to throw in the towel, however I am being told that it does get easier with time.

You have been burned once before, so I understand you inclination to get out of the fire. I hope regardless of your ultimate decision, you choose to learn the MB principles as I feel that this will help keep you out of the fire in the future; Be it with WW or someone new.

Good Luck

Canuck,

I told you once you got proof that was irrefutable in your eyes and started exposing, she would end this affair immediately. If you want to end this marriage, by all means that is totally your choice, but I don't think you really know what you want right now. Just 2 days ago you came here asking for help to save your marriage.

And honestly, I'd bet that eventually you will take your WW back. So, if that does happen, come here and we will help show you and your WW the path back to recovery. If not, then the best of luck to you. You are an inspiration to many BSs here. You stood up to your WW and weren't afraid of losing her. For that you deserve major kudos. No more calling you a pansy.

I'm sorry a few insensitive ppl ran you away from this board but believe MB and the principles and most of the ppl can save you and help you heal from this tragedy even if you don't decide to stay in your M. The principles here are rebuilding a M but I know when I came here two years ago after D-Day, I was so confused and crazy and I didn't know whether I wanted to stay M to my FWH. Dr. Harley and the ppl on this board helped us to rebuild a stronger M and I am so glad that I found this Site. Even when I waffled back and forth on whether I wanted to stay M, the forum helped me survive. For me, my DH A made me want to lay down and die. I cried so much that I broke blood vessels in my eyes. My eyes were bloody for three weeks. I know how bad it hurts.

You really should expose this A to MM W and stay on the board and post. Just ignore the posts that are not supportive.

My heart goes out to you. All I can say is that no big decision needs to be made at this time. She responded as I suspected she might. It didn't sound like a woman that hated her husband because she was in love with someone else. It sounded like a classic addiction.

She got hooked on the excitement of running around in secret and put her entire marriage at risk. Self destructive behavior of the highest kind.

Something led her down this path. THAT is something worth exploring for the sake of prevention in any possible future relationship you may have with either your wife or someone else.

She isn't spewing venom at you, which is unusual.

I'm sorry you're going through this. There will be many sleepless nights, lots of anger, mood swings that are crazy, and zero appetite. Food will be bland and you simply won't be hungry. Take care of yourself and always feel free to come here for advice. Ignore those that don't contribute.

You handled yourself with pride, and can hold your head high.

Most BHs in this forum would welcome a WW with that attitude.

You cannot make a decision now. Cool off and see what happens.

TLC,

My wife never reached the begging for forgiveness stage and we are now what I consider recovered. We even teach this stuff to others together now.

If you decide that you still want to try to save this marriage and do the work of recovery, this is the place to do it. The Love Bank model works because it is based on good science and not the whimsy and fantasy of romance novels.

The part of our brain that feels emotions is totally devoid of the ability to process data and use logic to arrive at a decision. It is in fact how people find themselves having an affair, by allowing themselves to make decisions that affect them and others based on emotions.

An that is the part of your brain that is screaming inside of you right now. It is the part that feels disgust, anger, pain, hopelessness and all the rest. Once that part calms down a bit, you will begin to look at the data and circumstances that are true in your case and might decide to attempt recovery. If so, Marriage Builders gives you the best possibility of restoring your relationship.

If you haven't already, look at BT's Thread.

Mark

Update for anyone who might be interested.

I spent the weekend with my father in law at his cabin. He has a small cabin on a lake a couple hours out of town and the roof started leaking again a couple of weeks ago so we went up Saturday morning and re-shingled the roof. It was hot, dirty, hard work but it was actually nice to do something "normal" after the whirlwind of the last few weeks and the physical exertion helped me get a few good nights sleep. A few times I actually forgot about my troubles and it just felt like I was at the cabin with Pop while my wife was waiting home - then reality would hit. We worked all day Saturday and Sunday and did some fishing in the evenings and a lot of talking. I got a lot of insight into this great man's life and his troubles. I have been under the impression for years that his drinking was the reason for his wife's cheating but, in actual fact, the reverse is true. He didn't try in any way to persuade me to do anything but his life is not something I want to experience.

We came back last night and W had spent the weekend writing me a bunch of letters. She has moved her things to her parents house and is going to stay there for the time being and come here during the day to spend time with the kids. Her parents live right around the corner. She left the letters in my truck which was parked at her parents so I didn't see her last night but she wants to come by today to talk things over. The letters all seem to follow the same theme - she's so sorry, can't believe what she did, wants us to work things out but will respect any decision I make, will do anything to make things right.

Do I still love this woman? More than anything. Do I want to spend the rest of my life worrying and wondering where she is, what she is doing and who she is doing it with? Not on your life. Ending this marriage will be the hardest thing I have ever done, but I just can't see myself living the life I would have if I don't. I am not going to make a final decision right away but I really don't see myself continuing in the marriage. I am going to tell her that today. I will give it a few weeks for the wounds to begin to heal but I don't see anything changing.

OM's wife left me a voice message while I was gone telling me in no uncertain terms to leave her and her husband alone so they can put this "unfortunate incident" behind them. Head in the sand type of thing - no doubt he sweet talked her into it. That part of it really, really bugs me. The POS had his fun and now his marriage and family ends up intact while mine gets torn apart even though he was the primary driver behind it all.

In my first marriage I was young and self-involved and wasn't a good husband, just too focused on things and the fun life while my wife got neglected. Looking back I realized a long time ago that my feelings just didn't run that deep for her. When she walked out it certainly hurt, but it was nothing compared to this.

htld, I did the notify thing but haven't got a message back yet.

Canuck,

I think your WW's affair was the result of poor marital boundaries. If you have any inclination of saving the marriage come up with a list of everything you would require to recover your marriage and affair-proof it in the future. The Harley's have it all laid out right here. If she doesn't agree to the list, then it makes your decision easier. If she does, then you might be able to recover this marriage and not have to look over your shoulder in the future. Anyone can cheat given the proper circumstances. The key is to never put yourself in that situation. Maybe your WW was just naive. Maybe she had the wrong ideas about marital boundaries. I bet her views have changed now. Just give it some more thought.

I agree this is a possibility...set her up with a lie detector test to see if she has done this kind of thing before and that she is being totally honest with you now.

The fact that your feelings DO run deep for her, and that she is the mother of your child....that is good enough reason to not throw in the towel so quickly.

And don't be mad at OM's wife....SHE is the one who will be looking for cheating clues the rest of her life.

She isn't though. She has two boys, and he has one.

I know it's hard to think that your entire future with your wife would be filled with a constant vigile of monitoring her and her whereabouts, but most of the time when you have a TRULY "F" WS that will not be the case. If given time and the right directions (extraordinary precautions are put into place), she would learn how to protect you and your M. Your M could become affair-proofed and you could trust in her again. I'm sure it doesn't feel like that's possible now, but it really is. There is hope.

I'll also add that your personal R will take place whether you are M to your WW or not. But most people find that a truly remorseful WS can expedite the healing process. Her presence, her effort, and yes, her comfort, will help you when nothing else will.

No one will fault you for D her. You have that right and we all know that. However, if you would give yourself a chance to think it through for a 6 month period, your feelings may change. Most do.

Keep posting. Many here want to help.

Oooooh.....I see...she left her own kids with him? She moved in with her parents and left her boys with him?

Hmmm......

I'm pushing for you to try to Reconcile your marriage first, then if it fails you can go get divorced. No harm in trying right?

I was also very afraid of what the future would hold for me and my wife if we reconciled. Sometimes I am aprehensive that things are working out, but those feelings are few and far between and my FWW is working hard at R the M and so am I. right now we are practically in another honeymoon period of our marriage. Divorce is certain, and reconciliation is uncertain, perhaps risky, but its the risky things you do in life that give you the best reward.

If you decide to reconcile your marriage, I would suggest getting her back in the house with you ASAP, and set up Extrodinary Precautions to ensure that she does not have a false recovery. Then it is between you and your wife to reconcile the marriage.

I would also suggest calling Steve Harley. He should have some good advise, and continue reading things on this site, plus Surviving an Affair, His Needs Her Needs, and Love Busters.

Hope to hear more updates from you. Im very concerned that you might let this gem of a recovery go.

TLC,

My advice tends to focus on the legal stuff when dads fight the custody fights. I offer advice based on my experiences in the system. I also advise based on hindsight of what I wish I had done in my situation versus what I actually did. I caved, gave in to everything, and got railroaded. It was a massive uphill and bloody fight to secure my rights as a dad.

I really have no experience with recovery. I look at the world through the prism of the experiences I�ve had till now and I�m very grateful my first wife didn�t reconcile with me because I�m remarried and very happy and have regular time with my kids and my family has a relationship with them that they wouldn�t have had had I stayed married.

But I really have no idea what I would do or how I would react if my current wife was unfaithful. It�s not in her character and she follows MB principles. I�m as susceptible as much as she is. So we have strong boundaries we both respect.

I think you should consider reconciliation, mainly for your youngest son, but I can completely understand if you choose not to. There are many here who have recovered and are very happy they did.

I never did and don�t know what I would do in your shoes today. The big question for me is the question of kids. If there are no kids, I don�t see a reason to try. That�s me. Many here disagree with that view.

I have that view because there are far too many good women in the world to waste time with unfaithful ones, regardless of the length of marriage. The BIG difference for me is kids. I put their needs above mine and I know for a fact that they would prefer to see their families stay together. I know this as a father and as a child of a broken marriage.

So if there is any reason to try, it�s for your son.

I want to emphasize that these are MY opinions and many here will disagree with me and will flame me for saying that marriages without kids aren�t worth saving. Again, that is MY opinion. Many here disagree.

Take it for the two cents it�s worth.

Well it's been a couple of weeks so maybe it's time for an update instead of spending so much time reading about other people's situations. I was tempted a few times to chime in but I really don't feel qualified, at least not just yet.

Anyway on to the update. I've actually been doing OK. Yes, there have been many hard moments (and there will no doubt be many more), but I'm getting through them. W has taken up residence with her parents since they have loads of room and the 11 YO spends most of his time with her. We didn't tell either him or the 16 YO any details, just that we are having problems and trying to work through them. I know exposure should be complete and she has offered to confess to them but I don't see the point in damaging their relationship with her, especially the 11 YO. He really seems to have gravitated towards her and is clinging on tightly. I'm not sure if it's because he has a biological tie to her that he doesn't to me, but it does bother me. The 19 YO is moving into a dorm room at the university next month.

The 16 YO is another story. He can't be bothered with our problems because he has his own woman issues. First love, been dating 6 months and now she wants her space and he found out she has another boyfriend. He's heartbroken so I've been spending a lot of time with him. I know he's only a child, but he's hurting just as much as his old man is. Helping him has been a sort of therapy for me and we are closer than we have ever been and it stops me from being so lonely.

I started seeing a counselor last week. Only had two visits so far but she really seems to know her stuff and the couple hours have been really helpful. Other than that, it's been a lot of reading, thinking and analyzing. Where did things go wrong? What is my part in the whole mess? What does the future hold? Lots of questions with very few answers but there is one thing that I have realized and that is that I am not the man I want to be and not nearly as strong as I always pictured myself to be. In this thread I was given credit for being so strong and handling things so well and that may be true but it certainly wasn't me in my marriage. I don't know what caused me to handle things the way I did and I am proud of the strength I found, but the ironic thing is, it took my wife having an affair to find that strength.

I spent a couple days getting really angry and bitter and cursing myself for giving her everything but I need to be totally honest with myself and admit that my actions through my marriage were not those of someone in love with his wife but someone desperately seeking affection and approval but never quite getting it. A sad, almost pathetic little puppy chasing approval, that was me. Yesterday, she told me I am now more attractive to her than I have been in many many years and, while she didn't say why and I didn't ask, I think I know the answer. For the first time in 10 years, I am standing up for myself.

During my marriage I wasn't a man, I was a "yes man" (or should I say a "yes ma'am"). Everything from how the house was kept to what we did to even our sex life was, plain and simply if, when and how she wanted it. I can think of so many examples but this one illustrates the situation exactly. A number of years ago she left a very good job in the health care industry because she didn't like the hours and took some retirement money she had accumulated to start a new career in real estate. I supported her decision but she never put any real effort into her new career, working only 10-12 hours a week. As her start-up money began to run out things got very tight financially. She flatly refused to "lower herself" to a part-time job in retail but would not make any sacrifices on the spending side either. A new car, big home, two vacations to the south every year, etc. Now, don't get me wrong I have no problem with a stay at home Mom (or Dad) but you can't live a Cadillac lifestyle on a Chevrolet budget, to use an old phrase. So what did I do? I took a second job and spent almost two years working full-time at one job and delivering pizza 5 nights a week. It was only when I got the job I have now that I was able to deliver my last pizza. Even now, the main thing that seems to bother her is losing her "model home" (it's going on the market regardless of what else happens).

Am I just going through the "angry phase" and focusing solely on the negative? Maybe but my counselor seems to think W has a problem with consequences in that she has never had to deal with negative consequences. She was Daddy's girl growing up, the prettiest girl in school and then hooked up with the bad boy who was a professional shoplifter (no joke, that's what he did for a living) so things have always come easy for her. She has always been and still is incredibly beautiful and people fall all over themselves to please her (like I'm one to talk right?) and she's grown very accustomed to having things her way. The counselor thinks that maybe that's why the affair happened - that she got bored because things in the marriage were so easy.

I've read a lot on here about emotional needs, so here's a question - is it possible to meet someone's needs too much? Probably not the right way to put it but I can't think of another way to phrase it. Or maybe meeting needs in a way that makes us less of a person?

OK, didn't intend to write that much and I'm not even done, but I'll leave it there for now because conditions on the lake are near perfect and the Rainbow's are biting so I'm gonna grab my fly rod and head out.

TL,

I can relate on many levels. I made many sacrifices in my own career to accommodate the desires of my ex W. It is hard to say if standing up for ourselves or even if being less accommodating would have been better.

The fact is that marriage is a partnership with give and take. Perhaps I�m just lucky, in the honeymoon phase, or it�s too soon to tell, but I feel like I�m really with an equal for the first time in my life. Decisions are made jointly. We ask each other questions and try to meet halfway on things. I try to be conscious of doing too much of what I enjoy at the expense of having one on one time with her and I think she does the same.

I think you may be being too hard on yourself.

BTW, the anger phase is far away for you. It�s much nastier than you describe.

Are you thinking about saving things with your WW? Don�t keep the kids in the dark. It sucks as a kid to see your parents apart and not know why. You really start to think you�re crazy. Tell your kids the truth. There is nothing wrong with the truth.

Yes. You need to use the POJA. If she always gets her way, there is no joint agreement. Then she becomes entitled and expects to get her way all the time. Then that doesn't satisfy her and she wants more.

In a relationship, part of what makes us feel love for another person is not just taking and getting our needs met, but also giving and meeting the other person's needs. If your W didn't give to you, then she wouldn't feel love for you, even if you met her needs adequately.