So correct that you're in the "gentle persuasion" stage of things. Even though the A is not active, thanks to exposure, that's where his mind is living.

Plan A is a time of negotiation, of expressing what you want him to do, but making no demands that he do so.

Plan B is an interim to protect you from the pain of continuing waywardness (still to early to tell if you're going to need it or not).

Recovery begins when he surrenders to your boundaries, not demands. Spouses should never place demands on each other, however you are well within your right to refuse to continue to live as man and wife with someone who isn't invested in doing the work needed to heal the damage he has caused.

Demands try to impose controls on the other person, and boundaries simply express how you are, and are not, willing to live.

Please, tell your son what is going on. This is going to be a long process, and even a self-absorbed teenager is going to notice things more than you would think. He deserves to know the truth of what is going on in his family, regardless of whether it makes WH angry.

Your DD, IMO, would only need to be told if you had to go to Plan B, and WH moved out. I would have recommended telling her when he left originally, but that window has closed, so unless he leaves again or the A rekindles, you don't need to say anything till she's older.

I know you want to convince WH, but lay off the deep convos unless he brings them up. Everything you told him about needing to repent and needing God in his life is spot-on, but he's not ready to hear it yet. You don't want to build resistance by rushing the work of the Holy Spirit.

The question of SF or not is a very personal one, and has started many a raging debate on here. My own personal view for you would be, you are not obligated under the Bible command to have SF with your WH at this point, as he has already broken the marriage covenant. If you do choose to engage in SF I don't believe that is wrong either, though you MUST use protection to safeguard your health as a daughter of God and mother.

There are almost as many opinions on that subject as there are people.

Still, you are not really in recovery yet and won't be until you can establish that there is 100% NO CONTACT. His driving by the workplace to see if her car is there sets him back in withdrawal, probably to day one.

As far as "preaching" to your WH, stop that. You cannot teach him anything at this point because he "does not have ears to hear". My DH did similar things when he came home the 1st time, doing drive-bys, sending her flowers, writing her letters, blah, blah, blah. I would beg and plead and shout and throw hissies-- all WRONG! I didn't have MB, you do.

Please continue to Plan A (you do all the work) for a short time (as long as you can bear it) but begin planning to go to Plan B. Start getting your ducks in a row as far as financial planning, etc. and working on your Plan B letter. I'm not saying that you'll have to do that but you want to be prepared just in case.

See the danger is you are losing deposits in your LB. You don't want your LB to drain completely empty! That would be bad.

Have you read up on Plan A and Plan B? Have you read the Carrot and the Stick of Plan A (very important!)?

Stop expecting anything out of him right now. Set in your mind just how long you are willing to wait for him to start defogging and get through withdrawal before you move to Plan B. With what he's writing in his journal, I can see him trying to sneak around and make contact.

Neak beat me too it and said it in a much nicer way.

I am suggesting that if there is no resumption of the A (since right now as far as you can tell this is all one-sided), you re-evaluate in about 6 weeks as your target.

That can go longer or shorter depending on his behavior. If he's continuing to improve, then stretching the timeline longer is an option. If he is continuing to be unpleasant and angry to you, you'll need to protect your Love Bank sooner rather than later.

And although you can't count on the OW continuing to see your WH as creepy, you can certainly pray that she does.

PM, guess it was just my turn to hit submit first.

Thanks you two! Nicer way or not I need to hear these things! Really all I wanted to do was tell him I had a feeling he tried to find her & I expected him to deny it. I was then going to say "when you're stronger you'll tell me the truth" & then change the subject. When he did tell the truth it caught me & my emotions off guard.

I will keep on with Plan A. Who knows...with how mad he is at me today & for obvious reasons of how I acted last night...he might leave on his own. Right now he just started his new jobs & hasn't gotten paid yet for either. I am working on getting my daycare license to bring in a full-time income & not have to pay child support.

Thanks again!
Sometimes I need to re-read things in SAA & be hit over the head for doing something stupid ;-)

And yes I do pray she still sees him a creepy or an old guy...lol!

This seems very one-sided. This really bites!!! Even when I am at my sweetest & happiest it seems that he is bitter & cranky. I will see how he acts tonight.

Right now, my family will help him pack if he decides to jump ship without trying to work on things.

Princessmeggy, how long did your H do the drive by's & write to the OW? It seems so high school to do so.

I'm pretty sure I messed up last night with what I said, "she was never your girlfriend, this was dirty & vile created out of secrets lies & the dark of night." Mind you no yelling...yet very emotional.

I think that was fine for a one-time comment, however being in Plan A your focus needs to be on showing your wonderful side, as if you were dating.

As if you were dating a creaky old grump who didn't have a nice word to say to anybody. I never said it was a picnic.

Hahaha! Dr. Harley also doesn't say Plan A is a picnic either. Thanks for the laugh!

Now how can I get those great icons you all find? I am not seeing them here & some of them fit so well to what I am saying.

Okay, so I have been trying to find in Plan A The Carrot and the Stick of Plan A...I know I saw it back in June...I can't find it now.

Can anyone post a link to it for me please?

Thanks!

So how do I deal with my WH saying that every day he writes to the OW in his journal "I love you ___. I always have & I always will. I say this to myself hoping that where ever you are you will hear it."

Right now I am having such a hard time with this.

Just keep translating it into English. "Every day I fog fog fog fog fog fog fog I fog fog fog have fog fog fog fog fog will." Think of the sound a big ole foghorn makes out in the Bay, and then smile sweetly at him, knowing he has NO CLUE all the seditious things you're thinking.

If you click on reply at the bottom of any post, it will take you to a page with emoticons. I love the emoticons here.

I will. I still think he was bs'ing me when he said that he knew I was reading it all along. Or why would he write what he wrote?

I bet that is part of why he is so mad at me today. Mind you, married people shouldn't ever have secrets, secret journals, secret e-mails, secret phones, secret A's, etc. So it being in my house & in my car I had every right to read it...so I think ;-)

I will keep remembering the fog fog fog talk. It's so hard though! Especially when we have 2 1/2 great weeks of what seemed like progress then a day where he goes & does a drive by to see her car because he "was curious" & "it's what he does." Or to tell me when I try to compliment his small moves towards us as a couple & he says "I wasn't doing anything different" or " I wasn't making steps towards us" or "I was only happy because I was out of the house working." Barf!!!

I don't feel like I handled this very well & I blew my cover of his journal. Man I regret that one! I bet he feels violated. My journal...of my feelings for him & what is going on...is out on my nightstand for him to see at any given time. Probably because I'm not writing barfy fog talk though.

Sorry...this has been a very bad day for me today!
Hugs to you all for your help, advice, & prayers!
I love MB & the people here!!!

Him driving past her apartment basically knocked him back to square 1. You can expect the same thing every time he does a drive-by.

It makes me wonder if he asked to stay where he is, rather than being told he needed to. ??? No use asking, but it's worth a thought.

Still, give it some time. You don't need to pack his bags yet, and even if you do it doesn't have to mean you're giving up hope overall.

Bummer about the journal. I don't think he actually knew. DO NOT let him know about any other methods you have for monitoring NC.

Know that you're blessed today.

I am bummed about the journal too! I found it & he had gotten rid of all he wrote before & wrote a bunch of garbage about anyone can brainwash themselves by saying the same thing over & over & over again. Reading any scriptures, saying certain things, etc you can brainwash yourself.

That makes me sad that I no longer have an in as to what he is really thinking & feeling. I knew when I admitted it that he didn't know yet I couldn't stop from telling the truth. Why can't I lie like he can?

He has no idea about any other ways I am monitoring him other than his cell phone log. It's in my name so I have complete access to it. But now I don't have anything to verify his words to me. He said he didn't do another drive by yesterday...I don't believe him.

My heart is broken. He still hung out with me last night like friends, he kissed me goodnight like he always does (like a grandpa kiss) & he said ILY to me. Yet he didn't want to hold my hand like he has before nor did he want me to touch him with my leg or arm or anything. Yes I think we are back at square one but it's different. He has now since told me how he doesn't know if he even wants to work on our marriage.

I asked him where he put the old journal this morning...he said that he threw it all away in different trash cans . I asked if that really was the truth & he said yes & that he had thrown away things he had written before because he didn't want anyone to read them. Things about her, me, & the kids..what ever has been on his mind at the time. So now, if he writes anything he will just get rid of it. I softly told him that married people shouldn't have secrets & that my journal is on my night stand for him to see when ever he wants. I also said that now all his secrets are out, we can start fresh without any secrets.

I asked him this morning if he was biding time to save money & jump ship or is he wanting to do the hard work to restore our marriage. He said he didn't know. I was using a soft voice, my body language was open. He was still angry with me today, I can tell. He left without saying ILY or kissing me...again this is something he always has done...for 11 years...even while he was sneaking around the 1st week of June.

As for his location. He is in training so his boss is choosing his locations. He may end up elsewhere in a few weeks, & somewhere else later, etc. He shouldn't be at this spot the whole time. It wasn't WH's choice yet I'm sure he could ask for a different loc if he really wanted to.

Right now all my hope is gone. I feel defeated & broken today. I do not believe that he has any desire to work things out with me & that if he did leave he wouldn't want to come back. I feel that this is final & over. Today is a dark day for me & I can't stop crying. I need to get me & my baby girl out on a walk & then to the park to play. I need to give her the time & attention she needs. Part of me wants to go be with my parents for a night, they offered for me & her to come camping with them & the other grandkids. My dilemma is that if I go a few hours away & he is here alone I can't trust him to not go do something stupid! I would probably be too stressed out to enjoy myself. At least my son is going today & staying the night with them. God I love my kids so much!!!!!

I guess all I can do is wait this out. My WH is mad at me & probably thinks that leaving now is better than trying to work on things. That he doesn't want me or our life anymore. Why am I holding on so tightly to someone who told me that if we keep living our lives as we have he would probably cheat on me again. Why am I still loving him so much that this is killing me to even think about? Why am I not the one to tell him to leave & tell the kids why I am being so strong instead of so weak?

You may want to edit out the personal info in the above post, locations, names, etc.

It's discouraging to get knocked back to square 1. I don't blame you one bit for feeling what you are right now. No one will blame you if you decide to walk away at this point.

Still, it's up to you. There is still a chance to save your M, and you knew from the beginning it would be harder and riskier than an average 1x A. It's still possible he may step up and make the changes you need, probably only with Plan B, but no matter what you decide we can help you with it.

Whether recovering from an A & D or an A & R, this is the best place to be.

Sorry you're feeling so down today.

Oops! Thanks for the heads up...I didn't even realize I had written all that personal info. Fixed it.

I really want to save my M! I want the H I fell in love with & married. I don't want to be single again!

I don't want to share custody of our DD~she is so young~if she were older it would be easier, or not. WH is a good Dad, yet how good is he being by acting so selfishly in having all these A's & now not knowing if he even wants to keep the family we built together or not.

Thanks for the talks! They do help!

Some BS's make the mistake of continuing C with the OP, whether directly or indirectly. I certainly did that for a while, and I'm thankful there weren't indirect ways to keep tabs on her (Myspace and FB, for example).

If you're ever tempted, don't. The only possible reason you might have for checking into OW's info would be if you suspect NC has been broken. (Right now with him doing drive-bys, you can just think of it as C, since whether one-sided or mutual, it's doing the same thing to him either way.)

Another common mistake many BS's make is comparing themselves to the OP. It doesn't matter if the BS is 70 and the OP 20, there is no comparison and the OP loses hands down, every time. Some things can't be measured by looking in the mirror. Most of the time, the OP is less attractive than the BS, and even if they're gorgeous, they're so ugly inside that any BS should feel privileged to not be that icky OP.