New to the forum, not up on all the abbreviations...

I'm 34, I live in a small Southern town where my wife's family lives. I have 3 small children and wife is pregnant with another. For the last 18 months or so, I had an affair with a woman at my work. Her husband caught us, he told my wife everything before I had a chance to talk to her. She suspected the affair for months, I lied repeatedly to keep it going.

Our marraige was strained by 3 toddlers, my wife seemingly had no time for me/us. I repeatedly begged my wife for her time and attention, she was just too busy with the kids to focus on the marriage. I was so lonely and angry with her for being so disconnected. I rationalized my affair by thinking that since my wife was uninterested in my needs, I could just get them met elsewhere and things would be fine.

My wife asked me to move out immediately, now 2 months ago. She has filed for divorce, and we both have lawyers working on the case. I have been going to a therapist and my priest weekly for guidance. I have been alienated by her family, she seems still very angry and uninterested in repairing the marriage at this time.

I immediately cut off all contact with my lover, and have repeatedly expressed my sorrow, guilt, and desire to build a mutually loving relationship. She is minimizing my contact with the children (2 hrs Tues, Thurs, 8 hrs on Sunday - no overnights) I'm waiting on the lawyers to slowly work out a temporary agreement that allows me overnight visitation. Her whole life is the children, the thought of me having them overnight is unbearable for her. She is a Christian, I have found Christ during this turmoil myself.

I have read His Needs, Her Needs, the one for patents, and Surviving and Affair. I haven't found any scenarios in the book like mine, so I'm still really confused and scared.

So my questions to the group are:
1. Is there some kind of timeline after which I should give up trying to encourage my wife to try to save our marriage?
2. What is a good strategy for facilitating communication and encouraging her to consider marriage counselling regardless of whether we end up together or divorced?
3. Is it better to just sit back and wait for her to come around or to occasionally ask her to go to counselling. If so, how often should I ask her?
4. Is it normal for her to be this closed off after 2 months? My therapist says the chances of reconciliation are very low this long after the initial break. I don't want to let go of hope, but I've been going crazy not knowing what to do.

Click "Notify" at the bottom of your post and ask that you be moved to Surviving an Affair. Be warned, we have a rash of Wandering Spouses lately, put on your helmet but keep your ears exposed so you can hear.

Welcome-- glad you found us! Get ready....

Good for her husband for exposing! That is actually an MB prescribed step-- to expose the affair to everyone.


Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. There is NEVER a justification for commiting adultery. Your wife is partially responsible for the state of the marriage prior to your adultery but you are 100% responsible for your decision to commit adultery.



Some people just can't cope with adultery. It is said that adultery is worse than being raped. This is what you have done to your wife.


First, get this straight. Your "lover" is your adultery partner. Your wife was your lover. Good for you for finding Christ. I hope you are sincere and this isn't just a play to make your poor wife have compassion for you.


Good! Confused and scared can be worked with... it's arrogant and unremorseful that can't.


Okay, now let's get down to business.

First, click "notify" and ask a Moderator to move your thread over to the "Surviving an Affair" topic. Lots of people there have been where you are as well as where your wife is.

To answer your questions:

CALL THE COACHING CENTER HERE AND SET UP AN APPOINTMENT. Even if your wife won't participate with you.... RIGHT NOW... they can get you on track for hopefully recovering your marriage and cleaning up your mess.

We'll be here for you as long as your honest, humble and willing to learn.

Your marriage CAN survive.

Your "lover" is a low life scumbag who thinks its okay to have sex with married men.

There was no "love" involved in your affair.

Exactly!

First, I am a FWW. I have made the choice you made. And it is wrong. All the toddler/no time/etc. Is truly irrelevant. An A is a choice. You had other choices. So put all that aside.

Here is what you do:

1. Cut off all contact with OW; find another job, no ifs and or buts

2. Tell your W everything she needs to know. Now

3. Look at what you have done to your family full in the face and GRIEVE over it

4. Buy SAA and keep posting no matter how defensive you may want to be

Be back later

I would start by getting another job. The future of your marriage is hopeless as long as you see this OW every day.


I would be very proactive about trying to redeem yourself and get her back. For example, I would get another job, send the OW a no contact letter [as outlined in SAA] and set up marriage counseling ALONE with Marriage Builders or a local counselor who is familiar with MB.

There is a huge danger in choosing marriage counselors because they are so destructive to marriages that if you make a bad choice you could end up losing your marriage. And you are very likely to make a bad choice since marriage counselors have an 84% FAILURE RATE and don't have the slightest idea how to save marriages. None. They have a higher personal divorce rate than the general population if that gives you any idea of the danger.

So, be very careful here. If you are going to do the counseling route, I would implore you to try Steve Harley or his sister, Dr Jennifer Chalmers. They do phone coaching, but they can do in a few sessions what other counselors can never do, becuase they a) sell the reluctant spouse on saving the marriage and b) they use a BEHAVIORIAL APPROACH rather than an emotional one.

The MAJOR difference between the MB method and traditional counseling is that MB rebuilds romantic love in a marriage and traditional counseling denies that is even possible.


I don't agree your chances are reduced, I think that no one has really sold your wife on a plan of recovery. If you can get her on the phone with either of the MB coaches, they will try and sell her on a plan to save this marriage.

But even the best in the business can't save it if you still work with the OW. That makes the situation hopeless.

Did you really? You repeatedly begged? What did you say? Did you give her your time and attention when you were not working?

Did you do your shares of chores in the evening to get to the point where the kids were in bed and you and your wife had two hours alone, every night?

Did you take the initiative and arrange a weekly babysitter, so that you could go out?

Did you talk to your wife and show affection during the evenings when you were alone? Did you keep in touch with her during the day and let her know that you were thinking of her, and appreciated what a good wife and mother she is?

Did you talk about the difficulties of having several children close together?

Why did you allow her to become pregnant when you were already under strain with 3 toddlers, and you had already taken the coward's way out by having an affair?

Did you have unprotected sex with OW?

Did you really repeatedly beg your wife for her time and attention?

here is who you should listen to no matter what else you hear:

LousyGolfer, MelodyLane, Mrs. Wondering, tst (where is he lately?), GloveOil

There are more, but these are people who have walked the walk and then walked some more. You won't like some of what they say....but they are right.

Oh, and Pepperband too....she is very good at sniffing bull a mile away

I think he's now "HerPapaBear" but keeps tst in his signature line.

Sorry for the T/J

This is what I was thinking as I read his post. I find it hard to believe that a pregnant wife with 3 small children would refuse a chance at recovery if she can be convinced of his sincerity and see real effort. Unless of course he was a horrible husband in other ways besides the affair. Maybe she considers it her get out of jail free card and is glad to be rid of him.

My husband's affair started on the day I called our pediatrician about our seven week old baby's colic. We had three other children, ages 1 - 6.

He had an affair at a time when I was most vulnerable and dependent on him.

Your wife is pregnant. She is vulnerable, and she has been tossed aside by a man whom she trusted enough that she would have children with him. If she is like most women, she feels tremendous responsibility for them.

She must view you as a completely unredeemable cad if she is going forward with divorce and not catching her breath to figure things out. She also may be reacting due to hormonal surges of emotion due to pregnancy.

I guess my recommendation to you is that you set aside your own fears and anxiety and try to accomodate her in a way to reduce her stress so that she has a healthy baby. Let her health and the health of your children be your number one priority.

It was selfishness that got you into this. It will be concern for the one whom you promised to cherish and your children that is how you might be able to reconcile.

Cherished

If this was the true reason for the affair you need to get therapy for this sort of insecurity.

When my wife had babies it gave me enormous pleasure to see her taking care of the children. I fact, I felt it was very attractive to be married to a woman that was so dedicated to the children. It gave me a lot of pleasure to see her taking care of the babies. I cannot understand your discomfort with this activity.

This tells me that the root of your affair is perhaps selfishness and insecurity.

Furthermore, when my wife was pregnant I understood that sex could be a problem. I still do not get your rant about wanting attention.

You may not save this marriage, but you better fix these traits with the help of a therapist.

I'm 34, I live in a small Southern town where my wife's family lives. I have 3 small children and wife is pregnant with another. For the last 18 months or so, I had an affair with a woman at my work.

Her husband caught us, he told my wife everything before I had a chance to talk to her. Her husband was able to tell my wife the truth before I had a chance to get there first, and lie to her, convince her that her husband was crazy and paranoid. I was hoping to gaslight my wife, but my affair partner's husband got there first. She suspected the affair for months, I lied repeatedly to keep it going. I was not happy that my affair was exposed, and my wife was really angry that she was lied to for over a eyar and ahalf, during which time she got pregnant AGAIN by me. While I was griping about her not meeting my needs.

Our marraige was strained by 3 toddlers, my wife seemingly had no time for me/us. I am basically a taker, and have no ability to accept that my wife's time is taken by the children. She should spend it on ME, and I do not see any need to actually GIVE MY TIME to my wife and help her with the kids. They are HER problem, not mine. Even though... it might actually allow my wife to make some time for US, I am completely unwilling to give anything to my wife when it comes to helping with the kids. Nope. Not my job. Her job also includes making ME happy - and it makes me want to have a little hissy fit when she is TOO TIRED to have sex with me whenever I want it. And I do not want to hear that she is tired from taking care of the kids. She is supposed to take care of Number One...ME.

I repeatedly begged my wife for her time and attention, I dogged her for more sex. she was just too busy with the kids to focus on the marriage. Like I said, she spent all her time taking care of three little kids, and used them as an "excuse" to not be a giver TO ME, and I AM A TAKER.

I was so lonely and angry with her for being so disconnected. I decided that I was entitled to have sex whenever I wanted it, and since she was not avaliable, I found someone who was. I was entitled, because my wife was not able to meet my needs, and she is supposed to take care of these needs. I had to go outside the marriage for sex, and this led to a longer term relationship. I rationalized my affair by thinking that since my wife was uninterested in my needs, I could just get them met elsewhere and things would be fine. What I mean is, things would be fine FOR ME.

My wife asked me to move out immediately, now 2 months ago. She has filed for divorce, and we both have lawyers working on the case. I have been going to a therapist and my priest weekly for guidance. I have been alienated by her family, she seems still very angry and uninterested in repairing the marriage at this time. I don't understand why everyone is so angry with ME. My wife is the one who was not meeting my needs, and I'm the one who is out of the home? Why is this all MY fault? I said I was sorry, and I won't do it again.

I immediately cut off all contact with my lover sexual affair partner, who by the way was also someone I used....to meet my needs.. , and have repeatedly expressed my sorrow, guilt, and desire to build a mutually loving relationship. She is minimizing my contact with the children (2 hrs Tues, Thurs, 8 hrs on Sunday - no overnights) I'm waiting on the lawyers to slowly work out a temporary agreement that allows me overnight visitation. Her whole life is the children, the thought of me having them overnight is unbearable for her. She is a Christian, I have found Christ during this turmoil myself.




The red is what you really mean, what you really think. The reason your wife won't reconcile is because she UNDERSTANDS this about you.



You are in taker mode.


You have too much work to do. The first part is to understand that this affair


HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH ANYTHING THAT YOUR WIFE DID OR DID NOT DO.


Thae affair is 100% your fault. It is all on you. There is no rationalizing, excusing, justifying, or blaming that on anyone else.


Your fault.


The reason your wife is minimizing your contact with the kids is because you showed minimal ability to help her out with them before you had your affair, and during your affair. She does not trust you to be a good man and GIVE like a father needs to give when it comes to kids.

You see them as competition for her attention.


You need to rethink your position on things. They are YOUR children, as much as they are hers. If you have any hope to recover your marriage, fix that mindset.



SB

Take SB's post, print it, and tape it to your mirror.

As always--- Amazed. Schoolbus has amazing insights and you are fortunate she took the time to analyze your own words.

Listen and learn.

(but I was kind of right earlier when I said maybe you were such a bad husband your wife has decided to use this A as her get out of jail free card.)

OW no longer works with me, she was fired after being caught in lies about coworkers. As far as helping around the house and such, I hired 2 full-time nannies that were there from 7am to 9pm pretty much every day. This was so my wife and I could potentially spend more time together and she would not be so tired at the end of the day. It didn't work. She did all the work while the nannies watched. I tried to get her to do date-nights once a week, but something always came up. I was definitely willing to do more, but I could never get her to want to do much of anything other than be with the children. Many nights she would get them in bed by 9:30, then straight to bed herself. No conversation, certainly no sex, just like I didn't exist.

What's that smell?

Man, your wife gave you enough attention to give you 3 kids & a 4th on the way. Where'd they all come from? The stork?

I'm an attention-junkie myself. I know how it is to compare someone (your wife) who has the real business of life to attend to (in my case, she had a P/T job, volunteered a lot in our church, and we have 2 kids), vs. someone who has a lot more free time in her life and who suddenly starts hanging on your every word. Been there.

But where I went wrong was that I never really communicated with my wife about what I needed. I was too lazy to articulate it, even to myself. That's not on her. It was on ME. I didn't have an affair because she didn't cover my needs for affection, attention, recreational companionship, sex or whatever. I had an affair -- let the other woman meet my needs -- because I got lazy, which is another way of saying selfish.

I also got lucky: I was able to tell my wife about my affair before she heard from anyone else, and I begged her to keep me & give me a 2nd chance, and she didn't leave or kick me out. I'm sorry things haven't worked out that way for you.

I'll have more to say about where you might go from here later, as I've got some errands to run & a ballgame to play. But for now, I just wanted to get you thinking about the rationalization you've been doing. Buddy, you didn't have an affair because you were neglected; you had an affair because you had bad personal boundaries as to what was acceptable; and you let your boundaries get bad because you got lazy about your relationship with your wife; which as I said, is another way of saying, you got selfish. The sooner you acknowledge that selfishness, the better chance your wife may see a changed man.

TWO full time nannies for a stay at home mother?

Did your wife have any say in hiring this help? If she agreed to it, why did she do all the work while they watched?

Did you and your wife agree a list of jobs for the nannies to do every day, such as cleaning floors, washing and ironing, making beds and cleaning bathrooms, while she looked after the toddlers? If she was unwilling to have them do the basic care of her children, then having them do the backbreaking housework that goes with 3 little kids would have been a solution. DId you try to find a solution? Did you try to sort out the problem of them watching while she did all this housework and cooked, fed and cleaned up 3 toddlers?

Where did the nannies go to watch? Did they follow her around the house watching? Did they sit in her kitchen drinking tea? Did they put up a big umbrella in the garden and relax under it? Did they relax in the hot tub? Did they raid your DVD collection and sit in the TV room? DId they cook themselves lunch? When she had her arms full of washing and one toddler was clutching at her skirt and two were fighting and crying, did they sit and watch?

Did you release the nannies after a week or two of paying for two full-time salaries with no work being done?

Are the nannies re-engaged now that you are separated and she is pregnant with her fourth?

As you can probably sense - if you are really perceptive, because I know I'm subtle - I don't believe your account of your marriage. It is odd that when you were asked here about your responsibility for improving your marriage and your helping your wife, who gave you no attention at all when you BEGGED for it, you came back to show that you went above and beyond what most men would be able to do. You were amazing, while she was...unbelievable.

She must be the coldest-hearted, oddest-behaved and most uncommunicative wife that has ever been created, in which case, why do you want to reconcile? You sound better off without her, since you have access to the kids. What hope do you have that she will change if you get back in the house?

If she's not he coldest-hearted, oddest-behaved and most uncommunicative wife that has ever been created, then you are not being honest about your marriage.

Which is it?