Thanks, MelodyLane, for your bluntness. My husband hurt me twice physically (in 1998 and 2001) to the point that it required medical care, and I just endured what is hoped to be the last of 10 surgeries. The affair hurt worse. You have no idea what you have put your wife through, but -- trust us -- there isn't much worse you could have done than sneak around and have an affair on her. Don't try to change her behavior at all at this point. Your goal is to convince her that you are willing to be the caring husband you purported to be when you married her, and that starts with focusing 100% on how to help her now, when she has three young children and another one on the way.

And, by the way, my mother once said she would "cheerfully murder him", and earlier this month he was included in a family reunion. You can turn yourself around, but first you have to recognize that the problem is yours, not hers.

This is a wonderful quote from John Paul II: "The man loves first, and the woman loves in return." In what ways did you love her? In what ways now can you love her?

Cherished

I'm so sorry you went through that, Cherished. I agree. The first priority here is to heal the wife heal, not figure out how she needs to step up to the plate.

lurioosi,

My husband is an example of someone who woke up, took responsibility, and changed his behavior.

I empathize with the wife in this story because I was overwhelmed with childrearing and my husband was off with a coworker having leisurely lunches at expensive restaurants.

I realized after posting that I also empathize with the husband in this story because I, too, thought it was obvious that my spouse needed to change.

These words came from a wise priest: "He can change. You can't change him."

scubaman,

You won't get anywhere at all by wanting your wife to change, starting with wanting her to go to marriage counseling with you or reading a book on meeting each other's needs. Focus on your behavior exclusively.

I hope my story is an inspiration to you. It took my mother seven years to be willing to see my husband again. It took me years and years of ranting on MB to get over the affair. The only reason why I'm on now is due to the surgeries I've been through this summer. The whole sordid affair will fade into the background again after I get the stitches out this Tuesday.

There's a saying: "Begin with the end in mind." Consider a time in the future when you and your wife are happy together, when you are dealing with teens learning to drive and applying to college, and when you and she go weeks without even thinking of it. It can happen.

It starts with you focusing your attention on her and helping her through the violence you have subjected her to by leaving the marriage without bothering to inform her.

Cherished

Honestly, I'm not sure if her parents want us to get back together or not. Her parents are very protective of her, which is good. They were almost completely uninvolved with us and the kids before our split, now they're with her all the time. I'm glad they've stepped up to give her support. They could have been more helpful before, but now they're in 100%. I don't know what they're telling my wife about their thoughts on our future. I fear they're selling her on the idea that she and the kids will be totally fine if we divorce. I don't think they would necessarily discourage her from reconciliation, but they will tell her what she wants to hear. They'll be supportive regardless of her decision, but they certainly won't try to get her to think about reconciliation on their own.

I know you were just responding to someone else's question, scubaman, but just remindin' ya that it's really neither here-nor-there what her parents think or tell her, or what you might speculate they're thinking or telling her. That's a mental rabbit-hole that it won't be productive for you to go down. You had a chance in the past to make a big splash with her folks, and you took a completely voluntary, running, head-first dive into a loaded commode by cheating on their daughter.

The only way to earn back their esteem in gradual installments is to do your best to earn back your wife's. (It will not work the other way around. As you rightly recognize, they will support whatever she chooses.) So focus on the things YOU can affect, to better the odds that she will re-choose you one day. Like that list of 20 things that you owe us.

SM,


First of all, I want you to understand something. Your wife did not turn to the kids to have her emotional need for Affection met - in place of you meeting that need. What happened was that you STEPPED BACK. You stopped meeting the need for Affection for her. The need for Affection in terms of romantic love is NOT MET by CHILDREN. That kind of interchange is quite different, and if you look at your relationship - just by rereading your own posts - you clearly set yourself apart from your own family in that you frequently refer to the fact that you see yourself in competition with your children for your wife's affection.

Nothing could be further from the real world truth. The affection of a mother for her children is extremely different from the romantic affection and love that is fulfilled by that of a husband-wife interchange. THERE IS NO COMPETITION BETWEEN YOU AND YOUR CHILDREN FOR YOUR WIFE'S AFFECTION. You have been looking at this issue with childish and immature vision.


I would venture a guess that you have a high need for Admiration, and for Affection. That's something you need to convey to your wife - at an appropriate time.

Right now, however, your issue is one of changing YOUR behavior. I see in your posts that you are concerned that you want your wife to change.

That's all fine and good.

The best advice I have for you is: CHANGE YOUR OWN BEHAVIOR. It is in this activity that you will effect change in the behavior of your wife.

You control one person in the marriage - You. By changing the way you behave, you can effect change in the way your wife behaves. This is absolute fact, and you can see the fruits of your labor in very short order if you make TRUE changes within yourself.

From your posts, the initial change that you must make is to learn that you have been a huge TAKER. Read about that on the website, and look at how you must change that behavior and become a GIVER in order to bring your wife into a point of feeling more safe with you. Your wife has to see you giving her things that are NOT of financial value necessarily:

Look at the Extraordinary Precautions post, to begin with, and GIVE HER THOSE.

Try GIVING to her by meeting her top three EN's, without being asked. You can do this by pretending to be her, and taking the EN Questionnaire, and going about daily meeting her EN's as best you can. Simply calling her could meet some of her needs, or going by and taking ACTUAL CARE of the kids so she has a break might also help. Don't wait until she asks, call her first, go by, and tell her she has two hours to do what she wants to do - shop, go visit a friend, whatever, but offer her a BREAK. If it is conversation, call her to "check up" on her, and let HER TALK. Be open with her, and LISTEN.



You cannot ask anything of her. You have to do the heavy lifting. It would be good if you told her that you recognize this, and told her that you are working on learning what you have done wrong, and what you need to improve.

Also tell her that you know that you need to improve, whether or not you remain married to her, because you do not want to repeat this problem EVER - in any relationship. And that if you don't change now, you are doomed to do just that.


SB

SB

Good insights. Definitely see how seeing my children as competition for my wife's attention/time/affection as deleterious to the relationship. I guess I was just focusing on how my needs for affection weren't being met as she seemed to have so little time for me. I didn't really know how to change that, so I went into Withdrawal mode. It seemed easier than Conflict, but clearly was an emotional divorce.

OK, so I'm all ears but incredibly dense...

I'm looking for ideas for even 5 good things to do for my wife this week. I know I was asked for 20, but I'm afraid that ANYTHING I do may be perceived by her as meddlesome or intrusive.

I saw her briefly today at church and later tonight when I dropped off the kids, I asked her if there was anything she needed, if there was anything I could do for her. She said she was alright and left it at that. I would LOVE to facilitate conversation or a more extended time with her, even if it means getting beat up verbally. I deserve that, and she needs to process/vent her anger. Conflict (on her part, not mine) seems like it would be an improvement over total withdrawal.

So again, any ideas for a few things that I could do that would be safe? Or is most anything at this point a risk that I should take? I get the idea of changing my behavior, and I want to do that. I'm just not sure what behaviors I should display without going overboard. So far, I'm just focusing on being a good dad and taking good care of them when I have them. Not sure what behaviors I should demonstrate for/to her.

Guidance is greatly appreciated!

SM i have been following your thread. I am by no means an expert but felt compelled to help.

I wanted to ask you one question. What was it about you and about your wife that had y'all fall in love? What things did you used to do for your wife but you stopped? Obviously with 3.5 children some of her top EN maybe a little different then when you first started dating, but chances are she misses some of the little attention to detail you used to give to her. Yes taking care of the kids and giving her time to breath is absolutely HUGE, but she also needs to see that you are doing this because of her. All mother's and wives want to feel like they matter to there husbands as seperate from being the mother of the children.

You obviously withdrew from your wife, but in the process you withdrew from your children. My guess is that Family Committment has never been your strength. I would start with changes in this area. There are many things you can do to demonstrate change in this area. But I caution you, don't make the change in order to woo your wife. Make the changes in order to sincerely be a great dad. Then and only then will it be seen by your wife.

I would recommend your first step be to respectfully ask your wife for a few suggestions on good parenting books that she feels you should read. Then buy them and read them. I would also recommend you "humbly" seek her advice on any parenting issues that arise.

Start there.

And if the occasion arises that she asks you why you want her help, or asks why the change of heart... Humbly answer her and acknowlege your shortcomings in this area and your desire to change. She may slam you or be critical of you for asking her, if so, just remember how much damage you have done to her and remain calm.

Never, and I repeat, Never get defensive.

Think you can do all of this?

This will be a process, not an event!

Food for thought....

Maybe your wife never desired a nanny?

Maybe she highly values being a SAHM? Her lifestyle as a SAHM is what fills her Love Bank? Your suggestion of hiring a nanny may have been seen as..... a love buster.... maybe your desire to have more time with your wife, at the sacrifice of her desire for more of a Family Committment, was perceived as a selfish demand. Maybe even a slap in the face, as though she were to inept to be a SAHM? Maybe she drew her admiration need from this role and a nanny took this away from her. Dunno? But, maybe?

I'm just thinking out loud... But, maybe?

When you've read a parenting book that she recommended, you can then have a dialog with her about that book. Emails or texts along the line of; "I read about ________ last night and realized that you've always done this so beautifully for our children. I'm so very sorry I didn't have the eyes or the heart to see this before."

Meets FC, Admiration, O&H as well as Conversation and humility... All this while seperated. See how it can work?

SM, I think it's very encouraging that she's willing to talk with you at all. Don't push her for more because that means your goals are at the top of your priority list. Give her some time to heal. If all you do is see her at church and talk with her briefly when you drop off the kids, that's a good start. Make sure you do your best by the kids when you are with them, that you are a Dad who focuses on them. You could ask her for some ideas on caring for the kids, such as the recommendation of a parenting book or ideas of what to do with the kids. My guess is that the next step in healing will be for her to come along when you have the kids. It might be a long time indeed before she is interested in being alone with you, and that's OK. Respect what she needs, and it's not intimacy with you right now. It's time to heal and time to think and time to assess where you are headed now. The past can fade but only if the present is different.
Cherished

Scuba,
I am a new BS here, so may not have all that much to offer you. But you were asked a question about the extraordinary precautions you have in place to be sure the A is done? There's an extensive list on the forum somewhere (I will see if I can find it), but the ones that come to mind for me (and would be a huge help in my WH showing he was serious about Recovery ... if he ever gets there) would be

1) change cell phone # & giving your wife access to the cell phone call log if she cannot see it right now

2) change email address & give your wife p/w

3) blocking OW's email & cell phone #

I would do the parts you can do (changing your # & email - and if she asks why tell her you want to be sure NC is complete forever). And then you have the p/ws to give her if she wants them. But you can change your stuff yourself to show your committment.

Vets - did I mess any of that up? I know there are other things, but these are a huge 3 in my mind...

Scuba, FWIW, I will praying for your marriage.

I took a break to check on another thread, and came back to find Cherished had elegantly said all I wanted to say.

So I quoted it....

Just so you could read it again!

here is a link about Extraordinary Precautions

LINK to EP's Thread

I think you may be right HPB, but I think that may be a source of internal conflict for her that caused even more anxiety. She's a physician, as am I. I think if she had her preference, she'd stay home. I think she has been really torn between professional life and personal life. She only works 3 half days a week (has since Nov. of last year after taking 1.5 yrs off after baby#3). When she's not at work, she wants to spend virtually all of it with the kids. I think she feels like her work distracts her from the kids, so she expends extra-effort to be with them when she's not at work. I think that even before the affair, the idea of spending 15 hrs per week with me alone would be totally unfathomable for her. There simply weren't enough hours in the day.

I like the idea of asking her about parenting books. Also, I took a cute picture of the 3 on my phone yesterday while playing with them at the pool. Maybe I could send her an email with the picture attached and a request for a book title or two??

Guess I won't post anymore since I didn't make "the list".

what can any of us say at this point, what you did was unbelievably heartless, so selfish and for what, you caused all this pain and you didn't even end up with the woman you thought your wife and life were worth giving up, that is the choice you made when you decided to fill your own selfish needs, what do you expect now.....
You have destroyed your wife and family, she doesn't trust you, she doesn't respect you....she doesn't feel safe anymore. The words you speak now are all a potential lies, why would she believe you, you kept sleeping with another woman while being married to her, being a father to your children and conceiving your 4th child.....she must think that her whole life with you was a lie, she must feel that there isn't a part of your life with her that meant anything to you.....she must believe that the other relationship must have been everything to you to give up all you had in the marriage and the family........
I know because this is how I felt as well..........2 months is nothing....you want things to resolve why because you now think differently and that the selfish acts really weren't that important to you.....well my friend she is going to take a lot longer if ever to think the same way as you......you made your decision to end the affair and to want her back, she can't understand any of your decisions, the man she thought she was married to is gone in her head and that is devastating to her......
You if you are serious have a long road ahead of you......you need to move minute by minute without any expectations......your long term commitment to her feelings on this will show her your true intentions, the long haul, not the immediate......fill all her needs when you can, show true remorse and make sure she knows she will do anything she asks.....
maybe in time with luck she will see your changes and re-consider taking a chance on you again....
she is going through the grieving stages of a loss, her marriage, her life as she knew it......let her do this, help her if you can......
you have damaged her self esteem by chosing another woman......
out of sight, out of mind, hurts her less......
time is the only way, having her see you in a different light than she does now, use the pregnancy to stay close to her if possible...stir some good memories of you and your family before your affair.....be supportive and if possible try to give her a hug once in a while, that's what I did and my husband actually started to look forward to the little touches between us and he felt the love I still had for him.......it wasn't much but enough through the healing process......one person can do this, get the book the 5 Love Languages, can't remember the author, do this and see if you can't turn things around.....good luck......and be grateful you are now thinking the right way

princessmeggy, I'm sorry! I knew I would leave off lots of great people.

Scubaman, pretty much anybody who tells you to work on YOU instead of commiserating about affair feelings or focusing on how to change your wife is good to heed. Affair feelings are disgusting, and "fixing" your wife is not your job.

No worries, I was just giving you a hard time.

/end TJ


So why doesn't she have her preference? I know as a professional woman who raised four children, for myself, that would have been my preference as well. There's a lot of guilt associated with having a career and leaving someone else to raise your children. At least there was for me.

Is it possible for you guys to scale down your lifestyle as such that she COULD stay home? Is that something she would even consider? However, now with your betrayal, she may feel like she's going to be STUCK being a working mother, and it's no longer a choice for her. That could cause HUGE resentments, especially knowing that the choices were pretty much made for her.