Hi sadmummy, welcome to Marriage Builders. I agree with tully that you should tell your daughters that he is committing adultery. The 2 year old is not going to understand, but a 4 year old might get that.

Exposure is the best thing you can do for your marriage. Affairs thrive on secrecy, so keeping them secret only enables them.

Another good exposure would be to the OW's parents. Do you have their contact information? What about facebook? Does she have a facebook page? We have had some very effective exposures via facebook by emailing all the affairees contacts.

Here is what Dr Harley says about exposure:

Exposure

EVERYONE should know about the affair, friends, family, employer, if applicable, pastor and children.

Is he an alcoholic? Is this x-gf married? Do you know how to contact her parents? Have you been in contact with her?

He is not an alcoholic but he does rely on alcohol at times of stress - more of a binge drinker I guess? His Dad is an alcoholic so there are definitely tendencies there but he had it pretty much under control until that three month period in his hometown when I think he went drinking a lot. In the UK binge drinking is pretty much the norm in some places unfortunately.

I haven't been in contact with her although I know her phone number obviously. I'm not sure I can handle the conversation right now.

I have no contact info for the OWs family unfortunately. The OW was married but as far as I can gather was divorced sometime early this year (initially my H said he had been helping her with the divorce papers � ha ha ha!). Her ex-H as got a new girlfriend or so my H says. I really know nobody in that town but will try to do more snooping!

I am already messing up Plan A. I couldn�t help but ask my H what his intentions are when we spoke earlier. I think it�s because we spent those 3 months in sham marriage counselling and I�m not sure I can live with any more uncertainty. I feel like divorcing him and being done with it.

I didn�t sleep well last night so maybe I�m just feeling weak because of that.

I am seeing H tomorrow for a business meeting and he says he will come back after to put the kids to bed. He then said he didn�t know where he was going to stay tomorrow night and I said he could stay in the house � was that the right thing to do? I guess I could cook us dinner? The trouble is I don't know if I want to be nice to him - he's being pretty horrible to me!!

He also said we would �talk� tomorrow.

I�ve got to stop asking him what�s going on � give me a kick up the backside!!! Where do people find the strength for Plan A?!?!

Did you speak to his mother last night as you said you would? I really think that tully was right and that he has whitewashed his affair to her. YOU need to speak directly to her and ask for her help in ending the marriage. Tell her she must help you secure her granddaughters' future happiness.

You also need to get the details of and contact the "exH". Waywards do tell the most fantastic lies to keep the BS off their backs, and we have had several here who have lied about OP being divorced. Telling you that she is divorced is just a good way for your H to make you drop the exposure plan.

It could be your H who is lying and it could be his OW who is lying to him. My H's OW, when she wanted to leave her marriage but only with my H at her side, got a job in the neighbouring country to her own. She lived there in a rented flat from Monday to Friday and went home for the weekends. Her H had no idea she was involved with anyone and believed that her strong career ambitions were the only thing keeping her away from home.

Meanwhile, after a protracted winding down of the affair and my H's final decision not to travel in his job ever again, she started writing emails claiming that her H had found out about the affair and was kicking her out. In her country she would get no assets because of the adultery (not true in her no-fault country) and she had no pension and her kids were shunning her. My H's lies (which they were) had made her trust her future to him and now she was destitute, and he owed her. He should leave me and go with her.

When I finally found these forums and took the advice to expose the lingering EA to her H, it turned out that he knew nothing about the affair and had never planned to divorce her. Imagine my surprise.

Waywards lie. That is what they do.

Plan A is very hard because it requires you to forgo asking your H to meet our needs while meeting his unstintingly. You must do this while he is committing the mother of all lovebusters and having an affair. You do need to be a saint to do this successfully!

Dr Harley knows that we cannot sacrifice like this indefinitely and that Plan A takes a toll on the very Love Bank that it is trying to protect in the long term. That is why it must not be done long-term. You must set yourself a limit for Plan A (without telling your H that there is any kind of deadline) and move to Plan B, to protect your love for your H, when Plan A does more harm for your love than good.

I sense you are at the limit of Plan A. Have you made the practical arrangements to go to Plan B? I asked you question about money and pick ups and drop offs with the children; I don't remember seeing these answered.

I think that cooking your H's favourite meal and looking and smelling sensational would be a good Plan A move tomorrow. I don't think that in your specific interactions you need to be incredibly nice. If you can simply be light and friendly, not nag him about what he is doing to the family and how he is hurting you and not be needy, you will be doing well. It's okay for him to stay in the house and even in your bed, but you must practice safer sex if you go that far.

Please remember that "safer" is a relative term, and there is no such thing as entirely "safe" sex. Some viruses appear to be able to get round the barrier methods. However, sex is probably one of your H's top ENs, and even if it isn't, it promotes bonding between you at this crucial time.

Baby steps, SM. That's how people get through Plan A.
Of course it's tough but to be honest there is no easy way out of the situation you are in.
What I am telling you with 100% certainty is that this is the best, healthiest way out of this situation FOR YOU.
I know that the person you trusted with your life, future, heart, children, the person you trusted most in the whole world has betrayed that trust and now here is a bunch of anonymous people on the other side of a computer screen asking you to trust us to do things that might seem at times counter-intuitive.

I was where you are now (as were most of the people on this site) and I know how hard it is. But I have come through the other side now and I know with the luxury of hindsight that I would not be nearly as healthy and at peace with myself today if I had not followed the MB way. And I am one who failed to recover my M!! Those who are in true R (as opposed to false) will be even more enthusiastic about the merits of this system.

What you should do is post on this thread every day all the progress you have made and reply to all the questions people ask. It will help you to keep on track and give you an outlet.

This problem has two levels; short term and long term.

Long-term
If you want to go straight to divorce, nobody on this site will tell you that you are wrong. You have the absolute right to do that.
However, it seems to me that you still love your H (as opposed to WH who, we are agreed, is a different person at the moment) so it might be worth a shot to try to save this M. Also you have 2 small children who would benefit from the stability of a loving, united family. If at the end of this process, having done all you can, you discover that you do not have a good, loving marriage, I and most others would advise you to get a D for the well-being of all 4 people in this family.



Now, answer these questions:

How is your husband living if he has no income?
Does he go to work every day even if his business is failing?
Did you discuss this situation with your MIL?

I posted before I finished but I'll continue.

These are probably all lies about her husband. Liars lie. So this is where I would start. Call her husband and find out what is going on from his end. Get her parents info and call them too.


That is a good question to ask. There is nothing wrong with discussing your marriage and the pain his affair brings while in Plan A.

SM, I see lots of opportunities for exposure here, starting with the OW's H!

Long-term

To conclude, it is important to have a plan of where you want to get to but you don't have to go into the details just yet. (Although you might like to take Melody Lane's point about alcohol and store it in the back of your brain. Is binge-drinking really appropriate behaviour for a father of 2 small children? Maybe you might like to consider a new lifestyle in the future.)

Short-term

Do what Sugar says when he comes home. Spot-on. Tell yourself you are a dignified, loving wife and mother but not a doormat. You will walk away from hurtful, disrespectful things he might say. Don't push yourself too far in being nice. Behave in a way that would make the people who love you proud of you.

Expose more. Write out a list of everyone who might be linked and discuss it here if you want to know who to expose to. Be as calm, respectful, non-emotional as you can when exposing (tough, I know!) and tell people clearly why you are exposing.

Find out more about OW. His mother lives near her. Can she help you? Use Google. Find out who her H/exH is and tell him.

Hang in there. No matter what, life will get better than this. But you will come through in better shape if you follow MB than if you don't.

Sugarcane � I can�t believe the lengths your OW went to! This world is so new to me (you don�t even know it exists until it happens to you�)

I didn�t speak to H�s mother last night as I had a friend round and she stayed for ages. I will definitely call her tonight though. I really need to talk to her as she is even asking H to do more work on her house!! Unfortunately she is quite selfish and I think she�s happy to have him around and it doesn�t even occur to her that she is helping to break up our family by encouraging him to be away more. H supposedly said no to doing further work at the moment.

I will make a concerted effort to get more info on OW and exH. There must be something I can find!!! If I play my cards right then H�s Mum might be able to help me with this. I will be honest when I say I feel uncomfortable with exposing on her side but I guess that�s normal right? Hopefully H�s Mum will do it for me � it�s only a small place after all!

I have e-mailed H my financial requirements over the next few months and am waiting for him to respond. I look after all our finances and have access to all accounts (including his personal and business accounts). He has no access to our savings account or my personal account so I have put all of our (minimal) savings in those just in case he stops paying me and I can survive for a few months whilst I work out what to do.

As for picking up / dropping off I know his sister would do that for me if I asked. H won�t like it but I don�t like his behaviour much either.

I don�t think �safe sex� is an issue as he has never been able to �cheat� on OW by sleeping with me since it all started 6 months ago (another red flag ignored unfortunately�I thought it was stress).

My H is effectively living off our savings which are invested in the business and which we draw on each month. The business made big losses last year but is currently making money. However, we have creditors that are overdue and are talking to an Insolvency Practitioner (for the second time) tomorrow. We feel we can �trade out� of our difficulties but my H�s heart just doesn�t seem to be in it anymore. A similar business in our town is interested in merging with us and that would mean my H would be salaried going forward. That is what the meeting is about.

He does work every day but can do some of it away from home as long as he has internet access. He can get work done even if he is in OW�s town. He cannot spend all of his time away though and needs to spend at least two working days here. He uses working at his Mum�s and the fact he is homeless as the excuse for going up there so often.

H just called and started relationship talk. Is it ok to respond if he starts the conversation? He was talking about getting a paid job and commuting from �home�. I wish he had done that 2 years ago as we might not be in this mess� It does seem he might be joining me in the real world though instead of burying his head in the sand about the situation we�re in.

He talks like I am in his future but only in very vague terms. I don�t want to read too much into it. I reassured him that I just wanted a happy and fulfilling marriage and that although there are no guarantees in life surely it�s worth one last shot to keep the family together. I said that I hated what he had done but that I don�t hate him and I think we have a chance of making this work.

I am feeling stronger again now and I really think I can do at least two weeks of Plan A so my deadline is 11th August I guess. Will Plan A my butt off tomorrow night.

Sorry that jumped around a bit!

I am so glad I found this site. There is absolutely no-one I know whose partner has had an affair (obviously several probably have but it�s not public knowledge) and it�s horrible feeling out of control with no sound advice.

I can see the sense in the MB approach. If I understand it correctly trying to get H to come home is all about having an opportunity to make the marriage work but then being able to walk away with confidence if it doesn�t rather than just having it snatched away?

Pretty much, yes.
You scoop up all your integrity and use it to plan A for 2 weeks.
You also do self-soothing things to keep your TAKER from interacting with WH .... for 2 weeks. Salon appointments, massage, exercise, some new clothes. Whatever keeps your TAKER from exploding some love busters at WH.

sm,

My H's OW wasn't particularly bad, believe it or not. Married women will often leave their homes while having affairs, or get their H's to move out, claiming that they need "space" to work on themselves. It happens so often that Dr Harley says that he always suspects an affair when one party moves out "for space". Many OPs also blackmail the WS. My H's OW in fact wrote that she was going to bring her son to university in England on a certain date, then take the train to London, and there, "at the same platform that you once met me - and you were so happy to see me that day! - that it will be. It will be over." This was in the letter where she sent him an early birthday present - a heart locket with a picture of her inside - saying "I'm sending you this present a little early because I don't know whether I'll still be here on your birthday".

Suicide threats are very common!

tully might chime in later and tell you about her H's (single) OW taking a job abroad so that she could see him over there. It is quite unbelievable.

Try Google searches for OWH. There is a wealth of information on the internet on all of us. Both I and my H are instantly trackable by name to our company websites. These websites give the job title, phone and email contact. I found OW's home address and phone number just by her name and surname, because she was on a voluntary committee - in another country! The committee minutes were placed online, although they are of no interest to anybody. Her H's job and email were also online, and their home number was in the online phone directory.

Try the online Electoral Register for OW's constituency. A lot of people do not "opt out" of this register. If it is a sparsely populated area, then there cannot be many people with their surname. Start with the first name and phone them all systematically.

Of course it is good to talk about your marriage if H starts the conversation. If you do not do that, how will you be able to negotiate the end of the affair, NC and his moving back home? Those negotiations are part of Plan A.

I too had only vague knowledge of real-life people whose spouses had had affairs. Yet we know that affairs are very common, affecting about 60% of marriages. Are all those people hiding what I went through? How do they do it?

Yes: MB works against letting the marriage fail by naive approaches, or mismanagement or giving up because you believe that your spouse has found his soul mate. If the spouse does not end his affair after you have followed the Harley steps, then he is not fit to be married to.

Initial findings - OW's Dad died in 2006 and was "a pillar of the community"!! No mention of Mother though.

OW has definitely reverted to her maiden name and I am struggling to find her married name so can't search for her ex-husband as yet...

Search for obituaries about her father's death.
OW might be mentioned with her married name.

Look for her maiden name on the Electoral register. I'm on my ER under my maiden name (because we lived together first; many regrets ), but my H and daughter are on it at the same address.

If they were living together the last time the register was compiled, he'll be listed at the same address.

Google her name alone: there might be some document that links her to him. I googled OW's married name and found her maiden name, listed on her husband's very amateurish website that he constructed in 1996, just for fun. He forgot it was there; I found it in 2005.

From her maiden name I found her place of work, and from the workplace documents...

I found that my H had visited many European cities with her, telling me that he was going for HIS work.

You don't forget that your H visited Bratislava on your daughter's 15th birthday, while she was doing work experience in his office. My H left my daughter to travel into central London in the rush hour on the tube - no big deal now, but frightening on her 15th birthday when she was allowed into town only with friends, for short periods - while he put on a suit, picked up a briefcase (that must have contained only his underwear, a clean shirt and a toothbrush), kissed her goodbye and told her not to pout because he'd bring her back something nice, and then got on a plane to spend that night having sex with somebody else's wife in her hotel room.

And the penny drops when you see the date he was in Paris for a night, coming home only to change his clothes, sleep one night at home and then take you and your son to Budapest for a short break. When you realise that he was with his ho having non-stop sex immediately before he left with you, you suddenly understand why your short break was such a disappointment.

Google rocks.

Have I done the right thing? H has pricing to do this weekend and needs peace and quiet to do it so he going to spend the weekend in our inherited house in OW's town.

I have said that him going up there makes me uncomfortable and that, going forward, he is welcome to use our house on days when I am at work. I said I wasn't telling him what to do, just that I am giving him options.

Is this Plan A?

Well, normally in Plan A he'd be living at home! I cannot see anything wrong with your suggestion, sm. If he is visiting the house, you have the opportunity to Plan A a bit more.

A nice clean home with food in the fridge is an incentive to come home. So are the children's pictures strategically placed near his working area! Make it clear, though, that you'd like to have him home for good.

Make sure that your PC is passworded and that he cannot get a keylogger on it. Never leave it logged on so that he can read your history.

How is the internet searching going?

Haven't had time to do any more internet searching. Back from work and still got to put kids to bed then need to renew dreaded tax credits (deadline is Saturday!!).

However, will talk to H's Mum tonight - hopefully she will have some useful info for me...

I don't think he wants to come home but he keeps saying we'll talk tomorrow. I hope he stays the night so I have an opportunity to Plan A him...must make preparations...

Make sure those toes are looking pretty!

hello sm,

Oh yes, I'd forgotten about your toe fetish, Sugar! Note to self: pedicure.

Well, I won't bore you with the details of what my WH got up to but it was nasty, sordid and never in a million years would I have thought him capable of it. Do not underestimate how low a WS can go.

Good for you talking to MIL. Find out her married name and as much about her as you can. Let us know what you find out.

I'm concerned that WH is living off your savings which you've invested in a failing business that he doesn't even seem interested in reviving. He is not going to work there every day trying to make the business work but instead is being distracted by OW. He may be spending lots on her to impress her. You have 2 small children to support. What can you do to to protect your savings? I think there's something I'm missing. Where is he actually sleeping at night? Hotel, friends? There's only so long this can go on. How about getting some legal advice on how you could protect your finances? Maybe you should consider starting up a separate savings account where you put money every month. You may need it.

You sound stronger. Have you thought more about an exposure plan? How about the people at the business? Friends?

Tully

I have spoken with Mum-in-Law and explained that I wanted her to know about the affair not to be vindictive but because I want the affair to end and for him to come home. She isn't a very emotional person. She told me that OW is definitely divorced and her ex-H met someone else and moved away in February. Both her parents are dead and she has no siblings. I guess she doesn't have an awful lot to lose in terms of disappointing loved ones with her behaviour.

I have exposed to his two closest work colleagues.

I have protected as much of our savings as I can. He is responsible for his own credit card and I am not giving him any money to cover that. I have access to his personal account and there is nothing untoward going through there.

H has either been sleeping at his sisters (who lives 10 minutes from us) or at his Mums or at our inherited house in his hometown. It's the inherited house that worries me as he is completely unscrutinised whilst he is there.

We had a business meeting yesterday and there are plans afoot to merge with a similar business. H has definitely perked up because of this opportunity and is less "depressed" about work. If this goes ahead he will be salaried for the first time in 6 years!!

Now the most important news. I was gorgeous and lovely last night and he has said he wants to give us another go. He says he loves me but is still concerned that we won't get back the spark/passion - he wants to be "in love". I just reassured him that it took us years to get to the point where I marriage was unhappy and we just needed to work on supporting each other and fulfilling each others needs.

So what now? Does this mean Plan A has worked or am I still in Plan A until I am 100% satisfied the affair is over? I have told him that my conditions for reconciling are:

1) Complete access to his phone
2) Marriage counselling
3) No trips to his hometown without me for the immediate future (I put no timeline on this as I guess it depends on when I feel our marriage is strong enough to take the risk?)
4) No contact with OW (haven't broached exactly how we do this yet but I have asked him to tell me immediately if she contacts him despite him supposedly having told her he no longer wants to talk to her).

He agreed to all of the above.

Am I on the right path? Am I still in Plan A?

Pleeeeeeeease let all this work and for us to have a stronger, better, happoer marriage...

Excellent! Gorgeous and lovely is the way to go. Tell yourself every day. 'I am G and L. He would be a fruitcake to consider leaving me.'

sm, you are a star. The tide of your inner strength is flowing in.

2 questions:

Have you exposed to his sister?

Has he agreed to move home?