Thank you for this. I know that the OP on the inside is icky...she is a cheater just like my WH. Right now it seems that the OP is winning in my WH's eyes & heart. We'll see what happens in the next six weeks as we are starting back at square one ;-(

So is it still a type of Plan B if the WS moves out on their own because they don't know if they want to work on the M or not?

How likely is it to save an M if the WS moves out by their choice?

Question, does anyone know the custody laws in CA? If I have to do Plan B or my WH leaves on his own I really don't want to share custody of our 3 1/2 year old daughter.

Seeking here for advice before I call an attorney for their advice.

Thank you!

It doesn't matter how he moves out - what makes it Plan B is *you* do not allow any contact with you till he's ready to commit to anything it takes to R your M.

CA will definitely give him some custody, though you might be able to make a good case for you having primary custody rather than splitting it 50/50. What you will not be able to do is control whether he takes her around any OW's, present or future.

The very most important thing to remember is...

If you think you can't afford Plan B, you can't afford a divorce 10x more so. A divorce is where a BS is headed if they do not protect themselves after a short time ~ that or a nervous breakdown. Both are far more disruptive and expensive than Plan B.

Also, before a court establishes official visitation, it will happen however much the two of you agree on. During that time, you will have much more flexibility than if a court establishes your arrangements.

Thanks Neak, I just spoke to an attorney (she has know me & my family for decades & is the attorney that helped my WH adopt my DS after we got married). She suggested that I move back to be closer to my parents & D my WH. WOW! I am not ready for that as I want to R my M.

Right now, as my WH & I have talked about it, he doesn't want our DD overnight as she will cry & cry...he knows that she won't sleep without me next to her. He did think that he could just come over anytime he wanted to see her. I said "um, no. You can't just come over anytime you wish. To me that's having his own life as a swinging bachelor while being able to see our kids when ever he feels like it...kind of like being a cake eater. I would have scheduled visitations with him & either both our kids or just our DD that were only during the day & facilitated by friends as in Plan B.

I think I need to wait though as my heart is still in Plan A mode most of the time. I am getting frustrated with his pity party & withdrawl.

So, if our M fails due to him having multiple A's, I can suggest I have primary custody? I'm sure that is what we would agree on for our DDs benefit to keep her happy as she can be. I don't know...I just wish my WH was willing to commit to us being R & start the MB principles with me. Today is a better day, not much, but better nontheless.

Thank you for your advice!

So, do I wait to the 6 week mark again to try to start recovery since my WH did a drive-by to check on the OW?

I finished SAA & really want to start the MB principals yet my WH isn't ready...I brought it up for maybe 5 mins today...he said that he isn't interested so I dropped the subject.

Just consider yourself in Plan A at this point. The 6 week mark is more when you will evaluate your need for Plan B, knowing that you can move that shorter or longer as the need arises.

You're kind of in an awkward stage between A and R - no active A and yet because of his wayward mindset you aren't really in R, either.

Good that you're learning the SAA plan. That way you're ready at any point that he does decide to commit to R.

So sorry you're in limbo - I know that's hard. Basically one of 2 things is likely to happen: 1) the A resumes, 2) OW persistently refuses all his attempts at C till he gets it that the A is over.

What is not likely is that he will spend the rest of his life stalking her in unrequited lust.

That's why you're giving it time...to see which of the 2 most likely options finally emerges and takes the place of the temporary stalker mode.

Thank you for your advice!!!

I hate being in limbo & my WH being in the stalker mode, makes me want to

I did ask him last night if he has done another drive by to find her or check up on her. He said no...I can't believe him yet with him not knowing whether or not he even wants to make our M work.

If the A resumes then Plan B will be my only option & he'll have to live in his car while paying the bills until I get an income on my end & he then can get his own apt. Or he can live with OW & have her pay all their bills cuz he has an obligation to pay all of our bills. He getting fired because of two A's & not getting unemployment took almost all of our savings to pay bills. He knows that he created this mess & he has to fix it.

Is it normal that sometimes throughout the day I feel like it would be better if he just left & I started fresh on my own? The thoughts only last for a short time & I'm sure they are from him being so indecisive & then doing a drive by putting his feelings back to the OW instead of us.

You're having those thoughts because your brain recognizes that you're not in a good situation, and it wants to protect you.

Plan A is a planned, calculated trip through a bad situation, knowing that if it doesn't change, you'll be protecting yourself shortly. You can stand almost anything if you know it will be for only a limited time.

Living in his car or with OW is not your problem. As long as he's paying for what he needs to pay for, all the rest is on him.

Well, I saw on his phone today that he had removed all of his contacts except me, our DS, & our house #. He did this the other day on his own. I asked him why he did that & didn't he want his friends & our family's (his guy numbers) too, he said that he only needed the most important ones. That if he wanted a number he would get it from me.

I never asked him to do this as I have been checking his contacts...will continue to do so still...but I don't know if this is a good baby step of him doing this or if it's a step that I should be weary of.

Like he is trying to get me to trust him so I can go back to being blind & he can go back to sneaking around...or is this a positive step on his part to show me that he is making more steps towards R?

thanks!

On the cell phone, I asked again & he said that if he doesn't have any other contacts in his phone & doesn't use it other than to call/text me or our DS, then it's one less thing I have to check.

Eeek, that sounds so suspicious to me. He said that he has no intentions of starting anything with anyone else again. With him not being ready to start to R our M...I'm not sure how to take all this.

So, for anyone out there who knows...is it normal for my WH to still not be sure if he wants to work on our M?

He said last night that he is really starting to get over the last OW that he thought he fell in love with. Yet he isn't at the place where he thinks that he can fall back in love with me & make it work. He also admitted that he isn't sure if he can be faithful.

I told him with us A proofing our M by implementing the MB principals & doing the things we need to do for us to both fall in love with each other again, I have faith that he can stop cheating. That if he takes down the wall he has put up between us we can start recovery of our M.

He can't console me yet, he admitted that it's hard to console me when he is the one who caused this pain. Mind you I am fully doing Plan A without his knowledge & I don't cry often in front of him. Yet I have a few times letting him know how much his actions have hurt me.

My WH also has said that he still isn't remorseful & doesn't regret yet all the A's. That everything he has done in his life has gotten him to where he is today & if he were to regret anything he has done would be to regret where he is. I think that's a cop-out. Yet I wonder if he will ever regret or be remorseful of his actions. He has said he is sorry & that I don't deserve any of what he has done. Yet he has said that since D-day. Doesn't mean much right now.

Are his feelings of not knowing what he wants normal for this time frame?

Thanks!

Can anyone help me?

I'm not schoolbus, but here's my translation: "I want to keep sitting on the fence for as long as I can keep you hanging around and and waiting for me. Are you still dangling?"


"I can't be sorry for my selfishness and my stupidity and my destructive actions, because then I'd have to take responsibility and clean up the mess I made and I don't have the strength of character for that. I'm much happier when things are somebody else's fault. And did I mention I really like sitting up here on this fence?"


Anytime a cheating spouse says, "I don't know what I want", it really means, "I want both a marriage AND dates with OP and I want to see how long I can manipulate you into going along with it."

Is it normal? No. It's wayward, selfish and cruel. And those things are not "normal" by anybody's definition of the word.

Thank you Mulan. It's nice to know I'm not going crazy when I have thoughts about this not being normal & being mad at him for being so selfish, mean, & still wayward. I love him so much, I have bad days of being so angry & just hating him for what he did. Those moments are short, far & few between me wanting to R our M.

I see your WH cheated in his workplace...mind did too...also for many years & I just found out about it all on D-Day. That is why he was fired. So far there has been NC other than him doing a drive-by on 7/19 to check on the OP. It was a one-sided C.

I am hoping for him to get off this fence so we can start R. If not then I won't be waiting forever.

Am I crazy for wanting to R our M at this point? How long does a wayward stay on the fence if the BS is pushing for R & for them to get off the fence...gentle pushing yet pushing nonetheless.

Hello hope, I had a quick look at your thread.

I just wanted to say that I agree with Mulan's translation. She is obviously fluent in Fogbabble.

As for being crazy about wanting to R. You might be but as they say 'the heart has its reasons that reason cannot understand'

My suggestion is to go to Plan B.

Thank you Tully. Plan B scares me to death! Sharing custody of our DD who is so young & not having an income to pay the bills (my WH just started his new job after a few months of looking & using all of our savings account to pay bills). Not to mention my WH might not come back. Of course if he doesn't then I'm sure it would keep me from more pain because that would mean he just won't change.

I am working on getting my daycare license (should be licensed this fall) so I can bring in a full time income on my end without having to put my DD in daycare herself. Once that happens I will be in a better position to do Plan B if his behavior doesn't change from wayward to making the changes he needs to be the H I need. The H I married before all this happened.

I appreciate all your advice. I don't want to yet I have a feeling Plan B is in my near future ;-(

I think so, too.

Is it bad on my part to drive to the OW's work & sit across the street to see if my WH does a drive by or is secretly meeting up with her again?

I don't have any signs that he is sneaking around...yet I want to make sure that with his new job being only 20 mins away from her work that he isn't doing something he shouldn't be doing.

Here, he has been nice, loving, & when I ask questions he is answering them. Yet I can't fully trust him again...it's too soon.

So, if it's a bad idea I won't do it. I just need to hear from those who have been in my position if I should or not.

Thanks!