What a wonderful update! I am so happy to hear your DD turned her life around and is taking care of her babies.

Chai!!! How nice to see you! We've missed you around here. I'm so glad to hear your DD is finally on the right track. I bet those grandbabies are growing like weeds. Grandbabies are such a treasure.

Chai, I am so happy to read your update. How wonderful that your DD has stepped up to the plate and is taking care of her children!

Yes, you are a Goddess!

You have grown immeasurably and conducted yourself admiringly throughout your whole ordeal...and come out on top!

I will be praying that any remaining financial worries are soon over for you, as well as for your DD and precious grandchildren.

I really admire you!

Update:

Well, 2.5 years after the D, and 5.5 years after Dday, my XWH now wants his family back. The A crumbled, so now he wants to talk to me.

I don't have time to tell you all the entire story right now, but just wanted to post so that all of you out there can have some hope.

Me? Not sure about all of this, but I have agreed to hear him out.

Stay tuned.

WOW. Totally unexpected. Make sure you keep us posted.

And keep in mind the wayward crapola as a checklist against his behavior.

Tuned .....

And for those who are new to her story ..... a vital piece of data !!!

Holy cowza!

Here is the SchoolBus post on when it's over...

"You can know when he is done when the OW's wails are louder than yours, and when he complains so loudly about her that you wish he would stop talking to you about her.

Seriously, when his complaints about OW are so loud, and so nasty, you will come to believe that OW is out of his life as his "best friend and soulmate."

But how do you know that you know "everything"?

Ask him to sit down as he would with a buddy and tell you his story with OW. Just tell you the story, and you do not interrupt him. He tells you the story about how he met OW and tells the tale as if he were telling another man.

And he talks about her with dreamy eyes at first
(you CAN endure this)

and he talks about the sex
and he talks about the time when they did this or that
and he tells you a story or two you never heard
and then he talks about how it went down the tubes
and his regrets

And you don't HAVE to ask questions to get anything out of him

when he does this, openly and honestly, without fear, without you feeling the need to push or punish, without his needing to hide anything from you.

That's when you know what you need to know.

And you will know it when it happens.

And no, my H hasn't done it yet. I keep hoping. Maybe soon."

SB


This is HH. There are many insightful posts from SB about recovery and false recovery and the "knowing" part. Good luck to you, Chai. You know we're all rooting for YOU because it's all about YOU -- not him or your marriage or the past. YOU -- today and tomorrow.

Do you know what Chai's requirements for recovery are? I hope she keeps the bar high.

YK.....sometimes it is best not to anticipate or conjecture.

Chai, report back whenever you have met with him and it will be interesting for us to find out how much of his inner work he may have apparently done and how much he still has to do.

This can not be easy for you Chai. We are here for you to support your journey.

Yes, we would love to hear how this turns out. We've missed you Chai!

Why is this such an "insightful" post? Where did the insights come from? The poster hadn't seen it happen in her own marriage, so how did she know that a WS's real desire to recover looked like that?

I recommend this post from sexymamabear. It lists the requirements she put together after posting on this forum during her separation. She sent these to her H when he made an attempt to reconcile. She only spoke to him in person when he readily agreed to all the conditions, including a post-nup and a polygraph.

She made the point that she wasn't looking for words but for actions. This action-orientated list demanded measurable, concrete actions that the BS could see had been taken, or not taken.

In the case of this particular WH (tst), he initiated all the actions that needed to be taken, such as contacting the coaching centre and a lawyer. When he did those things, smb could see that the affair was really over, and that he genuinely desired a reconciliation.

Definitley, Chai will know if she meets with her x H if he is anywhere he would need to be for her to consider ever having any sort of relationship with him or not.

He will either have some initiative or be totally in renter mentality still.

Chai has walked the path of strength and doesn't even need to meet with him. Whatever she does or doesn't do here is going to be up to powerful her.

If you are interested in using Dr Harley' advice, you should look for a ready willingness to do the things outlined in the following article as a sign that your H is genuinely keen to reconcile. Four Rules to Guide Marital recovery After an Affair.

Here's another MB tool.
Requirements for Recovery From An Affair

He is very likely to be in a fogged out renters mentality when she meets him. (as was tst) This is why it is so critically important for her to set her standards high and lay out conditions for reconciliation. Recoveries don't happen by accident, they happen with a PLAN. And SMBs plan that sugarcane posted is a plan that works. All it takes is willingness.

And of course what she does is up to her, that is not in dispute. But if she wants to recover her marriage she needs to have a real plan.

One more recommendation from me comes from something I heard on the radio show. I'm afraid that I'm hopeless at keeping records of these, but we have some very meticulous posters here who seem to record what was said in every show, and one of them might be kind enough to link the quote that I am after.

Dr H says that a WH (as opposed to a WW) will show big remorse if he is really finished with the affair AND if he genuinely wants his wife and family back. He says something like "if a WH does not go begging on his knees to his BW, he is not serious and should not be entertained". So, rather than look for him to talk about his affair dispassionately, look for desperation from him. You do not want him to come back home only because he has broken up with OW and does not want to be alone. You want him to want you.

Here is what that Harley-style remorse looked like from sexymamabear's perspective:

Now THAT is knowing it when you see it.

Thanks for all of the support. I have no expectations of anything right now. I have come a long way in the last 4 1/2 years, and I will be fine with whatever happens. I know what I want after all of this, and I will not settle for less, so if he is dead serious about a recovery, he has to prove it.

My goal for tonight is to listen, and listen only. I will then decide where his head and heart are, and if they are not on my side of the street then he knows the road back to OW and I will wish him well. And even if I believe that he is serious, there is a long, long road, and I am not even sure that I have the desire or energy to travel it at this point.

Why have you agreed to meet him, Chai?

Has he indicated via your IM that he has ended his affair and is willing to meet all the requirements you laid out in your Plan B letter? I do hope so.