I went for a long drive with my son last night. He and his father have not been getting along. Due to a mud slide across the road we were taking home, it took us a couple hours longer than we had intended, but it was a good time to get some things out in the open.

Needless to say, the Kayla/Kasey marriage is not healthy right now. One area of ill health that has never recovered since I started here on marriagebuilders and before when I counseled with Dr. Harley was financial support. We're on the verge of financial ruin and I find out husband is frittering away chunks of his day on the computer watching movies or porn. It's impact on our son was a turning point for me. I'm needing to ramp up my efforts. I'm almost too late at this point.

So I need help formulating a plan.

This is something I have saved in my email drafts:


See, I once wrote to someone else a list of the fruits of repentance and I can't seem to find that post now. But that list would be good to have as a reminder.

Any advice and encouragement would be welcome!

Kayla, I view his addiction to porn as the source of the problem. If this is an addiction, then it distracts him from other productive activity[like earning money]. This is where I would start. Since this is so destructive, I would demand that he stop and make plans to either unhook the computer when you are gone or find some way that he physically can't view porn.

Did you and your H ever restore romantic love to your marriage since you have been here? Where are you in that regard?

Love bank account near zero.

Resentment bank account multiplying daily.



You need a clearly stated TIME boundary to address these issues.

It's not enough to tell him WHAT behaviors you cannot tolerate.
You must offer a reasonable time frame for him to address these love killers.
I think a week is reasonable.
By that I mean, he must call for a Harley appointment within a week.
Or leave.


Tough love, my dear.
It's difficult.
But, you are strong.
I know you can do this.

If you don't, your love for this man will wither and die.

A kiss from me to you

{{{{{{{Kayla}}}}}}}}},

I'm running out the door for registration but I'll be back. I just wanted to tell ya I'm thinking of you......loves ya peaches


Not

I'm sorry. I've always looked up to you, as my husband is also a sa.

What are your boundaries for your husband's behavior? What does that list say?

My conversation with my husband would go something like this:

My boundary for relapse is divorce. (Because, it is.) I'm visiting a lawyer tomorrow and will draw up the papers and have you served. I've got money saved up for you to find a place to live.

I think your draft is too long. Perhaps it's not very MB. OK, I know it's not MB. But, your husband isn't in a state to address emotional needs. He can't understand how you are feeling because his first love is his addiction right now. He can't have empathy because his acting out. Can you hear the justifications of him exposing his son "Well, all men/boys do it..etc, etc."

Just because he stops viewing porn doesn't mean necessarily that he'll stop acting out. He can find other ways to get high that don't involve watching porn.

So sorry Kayla. I know that you have been around here a long time, so this has to be tough for you. I don't believe that I have ever read your whole story, but I assume that he was the FWS?

I'm not sure you will reach your H with the long letter. It sounds like he is in an active addiction and won't really care about anything else. Has this always been a problem?

(((((Kayla)))))

Does the financial ruin have anything to do with his playing the market also?

Casey is a sex addict. He just replaced one addiction (sexual) with another (gambling).

I remember when he first started with trading online...I commented that he would end up financially ruining you. I encouraged you to not allow Casey to gamble away FAMILY monies.

When a person is in GA, even buying stock is a no-no.

A recovering drug addict that turns to booze is just trading one addiction for another. Now that Casey doesn't have the money to gamble, he has turned once again to porn to satisfy him.

I would strongly encourage you to tough love him. His addictions are going to prevent MB from working.

committed

No advice Kayla. I suspect you already know in your heart how to proceed anyway.

Just giving you love and support and prayers.

I'm so sad for you that your family is still being drug through this battle.

Kasey has been pretty shut down romantically since my income dropped precipitously two years ago with the recession. He could feel the pressure starting to come back on him to step up, and he withdrew more.

Kasey's style is very wayward. He'll accuse me of doing what he himself is doing. For example, I'm on marriage builders while he's continuing his chat on MIRC "recovery" meetings. The thing is I don't touch MarriageBuilders while I'm at work, and I know he's been on MIRC ALL DAY!. So he'll say something like btw it's a lovebuster all that marriagebuilding social attention you lavish on others and the ignore me by so doing. My love bank has a rather shakey balance too.

That's just one example today.

Anyway - he uses the language of the 12 step program to avoid doing the program. I don't see anything short of Plan B and him having to fend for himself financially that's going to do it. Since he read here today, I'm not at liberty to define my plan. But Mel - I would appreciate your help so if you'd like to email me, since you've been through AA and know BS when you hear it, I could use the reality check when I start buying anything he's selling as far as this relationship goes and where the responsibilities are.

I do know this. I know what Godly Sorrow is. And I know what Guilt is. I don't need his guilt. I need his Godly Sorrow. Because right now he says I'm enabling our son's porn addiction. And I see that as deflecting his own responsibilities for throwing our son under a bus with his own addiction.

Pep dear! Thank you. Tough love is definitely needed. Since you've dealt with this up close and personal with your son, I could really use your help. If you would be willing, could you contact the mods and get my email addy? Since Kasey knows I'm on the short track to change, he's probably going to be looking for ways to pull me back in without sincere real change this time. He has no idea how close to done I am.

And the thing is, when he reads something like this thread, he turns it back on me and tells me I have no idea how close to done he is. Sorry - I am so sick of this deflecting instead of sincere contemplation. I crave Godly Sorrow right now.

I am not ready to define my "no relapses" boundary that strongly because I don't think Kasey has ever really gotten what it means to turn from his addiction with no looking back and I haven't been ready or able to end my marriage because he can't grow up from looking at paper dolls and j*cking off.

But I'm getting close to where there will be lasting change. One way or the other. Son is off to college in 3 weeks. I'm taking action step by step.

Do you still have my email?

Yes - he's been the wayward - mostly with his porn addiction but he invited a woman from an online recovery group into our marriage as a friend. She was a "friend collector" though and eventually got so invested in her relationship with Kasey that he saw where it was going and came to me, and we went NC. It took two years for us to remove her from our lives. He tends to get out of balance in his relationships and 90% or more of his social interactions come from online recovery meetings.

I know I won't reach him at all with any kind of letter. I needed to get that out where I could see it and be honest with myself about where this marriage is going.

Today was a tough day to be at work. I was just furious and finished with the status quo.

I won't be sharing my step-by-step plans but I did make a few proactive calls. I will not be worrying about "what happens if" here very shortly.

Actually Committed - he hasn't been involved with investing since 07. He freely admits he lacks the right psychology to invest although he'd put it in different terms. Yes he did lose 10k over a 3 year period. That's a lot different than underearning $2,000 of our needed income every single month since 1996. 14 x 24k has me absolutely buried and seething. We'd have zero debt by now if he had been willing to take any job when he graduated. And we would have a cash positive savings account for his retirement.

That's how he's hurt us financially.

SMB - thank you. I really wish Kasey's heart was softened right now. Because HerPapaBear is the finest example of Godly Sorrow I've ever seen. And that's what I'm looking for before I'll consider our marriage on safe ground again.

Kayla-
I know most people wouldn't have my boundary. I just can't deal with addiction, with anything that could be addictive (including cigarettes.) I don't know I'm like that, just am...

But, I do think it IS important to have boundaries and consequences when addiction is present..

If you were asking about my email, I've never gotten your address, but I'd be glad to talk, should you feel you need that. I'm not as well versed in MB as others are though.

You are in my thoughts..

Kayla, email me anytime at ohmelodylane@aol.com. I would be happy to be your bs checker!

Your son is now addicted to porn as is his father?

Time to shut off the internet. I realize that it means you won't have access either...but you would remove ALL liquor from the house if they were alcoholics.

Remove ALL avenues to porn from the house.

There is still time to save your son...casey is another story.

committed

Kayla, you can email me anytime if you want your discussion off MB. HerPapaBear and I are here for you and your family in any way we can help.

SA is a bit different than alcoholism. For some, it involves compulsive masturbation along with the porn watching. And it's the orgasm that helps get the high...Simply removing the porn from the house is a start, but it may not be enough.

Addicts can also scan women they encounter during the day and store them up for acting out later. They can also recall what they've watched and act out to that. Addicts can also use "softer" material than porn. Addicts can still masturbate to get high.

Removing the stimulus is not enough. In this respect, SA is more like people who over eat to self-medicate. With people who use food to self medicate, you can't just remove food from the house. You can't expect an SA to live in isolation for the rest of their lives...

I agree, for her son, she should remove the porn however she sees fit. She's her son's parent and can control his environment.

She can't, however, control her husband. It's his choice to recover or not. The best she can do is help her husband to rock bottom and quickly.

A no relapses boundary is a great way to ensure failure...

Kayla, the problem isn't your boundaries, it is his, but the more pressing issue is empty or near empty Love Bank accounts.

Find a way to ramp up UA time. MB, support groups, even working extra hours to earn a few extra bucks tend to take away from our time together and ANY time we can see our own Taker showing up to make demands, getting angry, showing disrespect for our spouse, it is a sign that our Love Bank is dangerously low. And when we start using words like "the end of my rope" or "my last nerve' or I give up" we are nearing Withdrawal where we really have given up and hope becomes a lost ideal.

And the solution to an empty anything that you want full is to put more in than is coming out and in MB parlance that translates into UA time.

Porn is a problem.

Son's problem might come from the same places as Casey's. It could be that addictive personality traits really do have some sort of genetic component or simply that the example being set is minimizing the effect of parental influence.

Being broke is a problem.

Not stepping up to address the problems is a problem.

Love Busters are always a problem.

Needing our Love Banks topped off is a problem.

If the last problem is put off until last to be dealt with, none of the other problems will matter because the marriage will crash and burn and the focus will end up being on other problems like support payments, visitation, separation of finances...

Relapses occur whenever we try to create new habits to replace old ones, at least at first. Even after a fairly long period of time, spontaneous recovery can happen (old habits returning without any warning or without anything that really triggers them). Old habits really DO die hard. They seldom go out without a fight.

But when you know the Love Bank model so well, and you can see that your own Love Bank is getting low, it is time to do what puts more into the Bank since being broke all the time is taking a toll on both kinds of BANK accounts and unless something is put into the Love Bank soon, the other accounts will be undergoing scrutiny by lawyers seeking to take their own cut while dividing what is left.

Does Casey buy the Love Bank model? Can you guys have a discussion about Love Busters without relying on Love Busters to get your point across?

Two empty Love Banks...

Life intervenes in our progress toward keeping them full and when they get low, everything we need becomes a priority for us and we are unwilling to wait for much of anything. But that is a sign that our Love Bank is empty and once we know how to solve that problem, then it becomes a matter of DOING IT...

Sometimes we need help to get it done.

Mark