Scotland, just to be clear, I think it is much easier to do Plan A when a WS is home, however, with a woman, she is only supposed to be in Plan A for 3 weeks. It makes no sense to have a WS move home to only have to get him out in 1 week. If he is out, she is that much better off when it is time to go dark.

So what is the best action right now for SM? Should SM give a list of conditions and see if her WH is willing to commit to all of the conditions? Should she not allow her WH to move back in and just Plan A for a couple of weeks and then Plan B? I know we don't want her to have a FR. I know that it would be crazy to have him move back in only to have him move out so she can Plan B him in a couple of weeks.

He wants to come home right now, what should SM do?

If he said he wants to come home, I would make a list of what it will take to get an admission ticket back in.

NC being the #1 requirement...backed up by a NC letter that SM approves and mails herself.

I would also require the basics to eliminating avenues of contact, i.e., he must change his cell number and give SM access to the account so she can verify calls.

If he met OW at work, he finds another job.

Those kinds of things. I have not read her entire thread, so I don't know the specifics. So I cannot give a specific list. But AT MINIMUM he needs the groundwork for NC DONE before he comes home.

If he bulks at the NC letter, then he is not serious about NC. My FWH refused to do it the first time he came home. The second time, he couldn't get it done fast enough.

Thanx SMB. And if he doesn't agree with the list, should she do a Plan A for a couple of weeks and then Plan B?

SM, I WOULD NOT let WH back in unless he commits to ALL of your conditions for recovery. There would be no point if you are going to Plan A and then Plan B in a few weeks.

I would Plan A another couple weeks, just long enough to get my Plan B in order.

Then go very, very dark in Plan B.

I would require he call and set up an appointment with MB, either with phone coaching or with the online seminar program.

The issue of visiting his parents' home in the small town where exGF OW lives, and going out with friends whilst there, should be on that list.

This is crucial. sadmummy, you have been to traditional MC and you did not speak highly of it.

Don't drop MC because of this. Go to MB instead. Let the MB coaches whip your H into line and keep him there. Don't try and do this alone.

Wow I have opened up a debate! Thanks so much for all taking the time to reply � it is very much appreciated.

I asked H some more questions about the A last night. He wasn�t always drunk when he had sex with OW (I guess that was my wishful thinking) and OW would like more out of the relationship (therefore I have to accept that she continues to be a massive threat to our marriage).

Tully � you mentioned the �balance of power�. At the moment I feel like he is giving me a second chance and that is so the wrong way round!! I need to find my inner strength and realise that it is him getting the second chance. Things need to start happening on my terms.

I have had one false recovery and it�s horrendous � these last 3 months after he admitted being unfaithful we have been to MC, on dates etc etc. However he couldn�t be intimate and he hid his phone � all the signs were there. It was because of the false recovery I threw him out.

Right � so I think (after much debate) that we are all agreed that I should only take him back if certain stringent conditions are agreed upon? If he won�t agree to those conditions then he needs to go and I am in Plan B.

My Plan B is ready to a certain extent as he left the marital home 3 weeks ago and we agreed on payments etc. For those of you that haven�t read my thread I am the main breadwinner so finances for the immediate future are not a problem. His business is in financial difficulty so whether he stays or goes I will have financial problems � another one of his legacies I guess.

I will talk to H tonight about what my conditions are. Would I then be doing a Plan A with boundaries?

Here are my conditions (feedback please!):

1) He must be committed to trying to repair the damage, rebuilding trust, and reconnecting � this must be shown through actions not just words. This must be based on a desire to stay married to me rather than due to financial concerns or worries about estrangement from the children.

2) He must be willing to stop the affair. No contact whatsoever with OW. This includes the following:

a. Barring her number from calling/texting his phone.

b. Blocking her e-mail address

c. Send a no contact letter (to be mailed by me)

d. Tell me if OW contacts him in any way and tell me what was said

e. To leave his phone visible at all times and to let me check who is texting him

3) Answer all questions I may have about the A openly and honestly � no more secrets. I do not want to find out something later down the line and feel newly betrayed.

4) Complete access to his phone, phone records and credit card statements (the latter is the only financial information I don�t have access to at the moment)

5) No unaccompanied trips up to his hometown and no going out in his hometown without me if we are on a family trip there

6) Marriage counselling

7) To incorporate the Policy of Joint Agreement in our marriage (this has been a major failing on his part so far � he has been quite selfish historically). I think this is critical to our success � I�ll introduce the other concepts as we go along

8) Get a salaried job (he is already working on this but I want him to follow it through)

9) To apologise to my parents and sisters

10) A commitment to discuss our marriage/emotional needs and to review and be honest about this on a weekly basis (at present he doesn�t feel comfortable talking about these things but I think if we agree an hour per week when we sit down and open up rather than it being a free for all he will agree)

11) 15 hours UA time per week

12) Take responsibility � show sincere remorse and regret. Apologise often and promise to never commit adultery again. It is not acceptable to blame me for the fact that his needs for intimacy/sex were not being met (his reason for the affair)� he was a party to our marriage and could have spoken up

Lastly, I want to make one commitment from him to me at this stage. I will stop trying to speed up the process � I am looking for an instant fix and there isn�t one.

What do you all think? Am I on the right track?

sm,

I'm sorry that I could not reply to this until now. I take it you have already spoken to your H about his moving in? How did it go?

I think your list is very much in the spirit of what we were urging you to do yesterday. The one thing I would urge you to change would be to insist on the MB online course. I really think this would be more effective than any MC you could find. What you seem to want is a MB marriage, and the best people to provide that are the MB team.

If you go with MB, at a stroke you would incorporate many of the things on the list, such as a MINIMUM of 15 hours UA per week (not just "15 hours"), POJA, PORA (radical honesty, which incorporates historical honesty, which would cover the facts about the affair), EN discussions and reviews, his meeting one of your key ENs of getting a salaried job...

The benefit of committing to the MB course is that you are assigned a coach who whips you through the 15+ hours, the workbooks, the EN discussions etc, and who helps you when you have a query or problem. You also have direct access to email Dr Harley on the private forum here.

Your H would have to give his commitment to the 15+ hours working on the marriage, and YOU wouldn't have to coax, cajole and get angry with him to do the work. You would do your weekly tasks and let your coach deal with your H. The programme monitors your recovery to see if the course is being used effectively.

I can't think why you wouldn't go for this since you are here looking for MB help! Direct coaching from the MB team is the best and most direct way to get MB advice.

Yes: if your H does not agree to your conditions, you do not allow him to go home. You could maintain Plan A for another week or so, as you originally planned, and go to Plan B in mid-August, or you could Plan B right away.

I rather like the idea of allowing communication with him for a while, so that he can talk to you about the conditions (not talk you out of them!). He might not see why, for example, you want him to do an online course with coaches in America when you could have face-to-face counselling at home. You could sell the MB programme to him while in Plan A for a little longer.

I hope you get more input on this. Please let us know how your discussions have gone.

SM,

I totally agree with SugarCane. You need to stick to your guns about your conditions for WH to return home. And definitely, be specific about using Marriage Builders and not just any other marriage counseling.

Please let us know how things are going.

hello sadmummy, how are things going? How did he react to the list of conditions?

I just had a thought and I wonder if anyone has ideas about this. You mentioned a while back that OW wants more from this A and doesn't want to let go. From what you've said she is relatively recently divorced and in her forties. Money is probably an issue for her and in reality, your WH is not a great financial bet for her in that he doesn't have a job, has significant debts from his business and has 2 small children who will be dependant on him for a long time. I wonder is she knows all this; WH might be presenting himself as a self-made man with significant wealth. (you know him best but it's a thing lots of men do)

My question is could you expose to someone close to OW or even to her directly and mention slightly obscurely something like 'I am prepared to work side by side with my H to resolve his serious business debts because I love my H and want to save our M for our sake and the sake of our 2 little girls'. It might turn her off to know that he's not the hotshot businessman he might be presenting himself to be.
What do you think? I hope you are doing OK.

Tully

Sadmummy - are you out there? How are you doing?? Please let us know. We are thinking of you and want to help you.