Just totally fed up, no one else to rant to friends and family are suck of hearing it. It's like he just gets on with his life quite happy, Doesn't seem to miss me or anything. I feel like I am trapped because of how I feel about him right now I just feel like I never want to see him again. Go play your golf, go on about work all the time, take ow out for meals. Fine you do all that and let's sell the house let's file for D and don't contact me again.

sorry for ranting guys - sorted myself out now - amazing what a long run and fresh air can do! I have to keep it all in perspective, decided to focus on my own life for a little while, instead of analysing and obsessing about H. I have got some nights out arranged, I am going to catch up with old girl friends...Hopefully it will help me keep pespective on it all.

Hitch,

Why are you still married to him? Why didn't you divorce rather than have an affair? What does he bring to your life that makes you happy? What does he bring to your life, that sustains you?

Just questions. I am still waiting for more on your boundaries and what I wrote earlier.

JL

Hi JL,

Why am I still married to him?

Right now I have no idea. Because I love him and don't want him out out of my life.

Why didnt I divorce him?

Because I didn't know how unhappy I was, until how good the OM made me feel. Simple things like OM organised the business trip details (taxi to airport ect..), because he listened to me in a sincere way, because he seemed to care. He took care of ME for a change. I know this was foggy thinking.

What does H bring to my life that makes me happy?

Security, stability and familiarity.

What does he bring to my life that sustains me?

Well, he is there in body but not in mind if anyone gets that. H can you do this? Ofcourse W! If I ask him to do something he does it, but sometimes you want someone to take the initiative. But there is not honey you look tired, darling don't do a long journey, wife lets take a brek we need it. No proactive care. Probably not a lot really.

I earn more than him, I take care of all the house hold bill payments, house cleaning, I don't know how much he earns, I support him in his own business. I organise all the holidays, weekend plans, nights out with friends. What does he give me back? zero, nothing.

I am still working on boundaries it has taken it out of me. I have added another 2 to the list (let me know what you think JL).

Sometimes I worry that I have asked for too much from H, or a marriage and I wory that if I want too much I will never get it.

Some more boundary work, I have added 2 & 3.

1. I will treat people with respect at all times

2. I will be compassionate with others

3. I will empathise with those around me

PS. Its 1am in UK and H not home, I fear he is another womans bed.

Good night all.

Update;

H came home this morning, I was so weary, really just wanted to shut him out, he came into my room with a cup of tea. H sat on my bed and started chatting, I asked him about his evening and where he stayed. He said he had stayed at his mum and dads and got a taxi there, and they gave him a lift back to the golf club to pick up his car. He looked me in the eye when he said that, and I looked him back in the eye and said, calmy, I don't want to hear anymore lies, please tell me the truth (my boundaries coming into play). H said he was not lying and he would tell me the truth if he was with another girl. I believed him, when he lies he can't look at me and changes the subject, he did not do this. However, he didn't say that there wouldn't be another girl, how reassuring and pleasant of him

I have been thinking about what JL has said to me, about what does he bring? This morning alone, he is take take, for example

1. He didn't have the decency to let me know where he has stayed out so I have had sleepless night.
2. He asked me to take his faulty top back to the shop
3. I made him breakfast, and I didn't get a thank you.
4. He sat and talked about work for about 30 mins whlst I sat and listened.

I looked at him whilst he was reading the paper, and to be honest I didn't like the person I could see. My love for him is dying.

Speaking to Steve Harley, he explains that my H is lost right now. That it is going to be down to me to do the work here.

I am going to do some boundary work this evening, I am starting to enjoy it more now.

Hitch,

You said

So how does your latest interaction with your H work with your three boundaries?

The addendum for each of them is that you expect someone to treat you the same way. I am not sure about the empathy one, but I do think respect and compassion were lacking don't you?

So when are you going to tell him what he needs to do? He won't be as lost if he knows what you expect of him and what you expect of yourself. Oddly, you can give him marching orders as long as he knows you are marching with him. He needs to know if he decides to "fall out" then the march is over. Are you starting to see where boundaries start to change how you address issues? Why they need to be fundamental.

I think one of your boundaries should be honesty. I will be honest with myself and therefore I expect honesty from those I deal with. This ties nicely with the respect and compassion. You need those two because you WILL BE HONEST, but there is "radical honesty" and there is "brutal honesty" they are different. Honest can bring pain, but it should not be the purpose of the honesty. Are you seeing where I am going?

Hang in there Hitch.

God Bless,

JL

Hi JL

OK to summarise and let them sink in.

I will treat people with respect at all times
I will be compassionate with others
I will empathise with those around me
I will be honest with myself and therefore I expect honesty from those I deal with

From this day forward I am going to live by my boundaries, and I expect others to treat me in the same way. HA HA my h is screwed then!!

My latest interaction with my H goes against all those boundaries. I can use the boundaries easily with other people / relationships in my life, but don't feel as I can use them with my H right now. For example, he shows no compassion by staying out the night without letting me know. I discussed all this with Steve who told me I should ignore it all right now, just let my H know I am upset about it.

However, I have been enforcing my boundaries to my H a little. For example, on Sunday I told him I don't want anymore lies. I should have also said, that he could have let me know he was staying out the night.

I feel really ready to start enforcing them with H though, he is treating me like dirt right now, and it is poisening the love I have for him. Is he really worth it?

He called me crying again at work today, for some help, still having business issues and needed some support. Notice that he calls me, not his mother (who is so wonderful), not his 'female friends', not his brother. Maybe that should tell him something.

My H is having an appt with Steve on Weds, then Steve wants to see us both together to go through our questionairres. I think that will be make or break stage. I have been very honest.

Hitch,

You said That is protecting your boundaries. You don't have to shoot the trespasser on sight you know.

But, you express that you are upset and why. If he keeps it up then you make a change in your response. No threats, no promises, just a thoughtful response appropriate to the infraction.

You do the right, but more importantly if there is to be hope for the marriage you owe it to your H to express to him how you feel about things. I can tell you his mindreading skills have not improved with your affair or with his behavior afterwards. As a mindreader, he like I, is poor!!!!!

Hang in there.

God Bless,

JL

PS: I am not sure about empathy being a core value or a boundary. However, you having empathy will make you better able to defend your boundaries. You being around someone empathetic makes it easier to explain yourself. However, your most powerful friends might be so, because they are not empathetic but simply tell you how they see things and that might not be how you see it.

Hitch, as you know I have been following your thread. I am going to throw out "self care" as a core value for you to consider, i.e. I will ensure that my physical, emotional, creative and intellectual needs are met in a way that is not violative of my other core values. I will enact boundaries on my time, talent and energy to make sure those needs are met.

I am generalizing here, but I think women are quicker to sacrifice those things than men. It seems like an unspoken rule that women are in charge of maintaining relationships, and caring for the infants and the old. I am a caregiver by nature, so I threw myself into this role with passion and tabled everything I needed in favor of The Greater Family Good. With my mother, this was a no-brainer.

You don't have kids so this may not resonate with you, but file it away....the seeds for my A were sown 21 years ago at the birth of my first child with night after sleepless night, working full time, through three children. I never asked H to take the baby for a night because I bought into, hook, line and sinker, the notion of unconditional love -- if you haven't read that article yet on this website, DO IT. I seriously couldn't believe that someone understood -- you know those moments where you read something and you think "how in the world could they know that about me?"

Just a thought.

Saddest,

I wouldn't say that women are more inclined to make sacrifices. Many men work jobs they hate to support the family. Many men work very dangerous jobs to support the family. Many men work themselves to death to support their family. And as odd as it sounds they are proud to have done it.

I think it is true that men and women often sacrifice different things in a marriage and as Harley has pointed out sacrifice without a POJA is going to lead to deep resentment on the part of the person making that sacrifice.

JL

Hi SW

I think thats a really good suggestion I think I am going to change my empathise boundary and try a new one. Thank you for taking the time to read my thread.

I do like having boundaries in place, I have already started to live them in day to day life.

Update:

I have started to use my boundaries a little, I can always add to this list but it is something to start out with. I haven't finished reading the Cloud and Townsend book so I am sure that will add some more. It does feel quite powerful, and like you know yourself again.

Generally just really fed up right now (again), starting to feel like life is passing me by. My friends are all moving on one has just got engaged, and another just had a baby and feel like I am stuck in limbo. Looked at some pics on FB, saw pics of friends in family photos, so happy, I want that so bad. It is 5 months since the A was revealed and that is 5 months of living under the same room as my H, living separate lives and watching him come and go with OW, not come home at night and ignore me.

Have a confession, started to miss (get withdrawal symptons) from OM the last few days. Not sure what has bought this on, but I miss his support dealing with H. It went from a PA to an EA and he is well aware that I love my H and want it to work. So tempted to pick up the phone, but won't.

H has been away the last couple of nights, he is suppose to be home tonight but no show yet. I just called him, he ignored my call, didn't leave a message. Watched an episode of Sex and the City last night where Carrie was dating a guy really into his work, and felt like she used her boundaries saying 'where do i fit in this relationship'.

Started to think about what do I do if things don't work out? I don;t know, it is like starting from scratch again, this wasn't the plan at 34 nearly 35.

Have booked apt with H with SH for tomorrow but probably going to have to cancel it, not sure I feel like mentioning it to my H now.

I just want this all over, I think 5 months is more than anyone can take, not forgetting the turbulent year before that. I feel broken and disillusioned.

Hanging in there though.

Hitch,

It is a fair question to ask your H. "Where do I fit into this marriage and your life?" You have only been married 3 years and frankly neither of you are all that mature with regard to relationships.

Once you get your boundaries discovered and in place I think you will be much happier with yourself AND much happier with the people around you. Whether your H wants to be part of this or not, is for him to decide and tell you. Whether you want to be part of this marriage is for you to decide.

This is something you should have decided before you had the A. But, that was then and this is now. You need information from your H and the only way to get it is ask him and then see if what he tells you matches his actions.

Please think about this.

God Bless,

JL

Thank you JL for your continued support.

I really do feel as though this relationship is a lost cause. I have been listening aswell to Steves advice, which is to continue to be his 'room mate' and to continue with the MB program. He thinks my H is lost right now, and that this could be the fastest route to happiness. I just find it so demoralising. I lent him a whole load of money yesterday to help with his business and he doesn't even have the decency to answer my calls.

Why have I put up with this behaviour? Why am I so frightened of losing something that is quite clearly lacking? I am so down. Why can't I just let go. I am frightened as when I left last year I almost had a 'mini breakdown' as my H would not talk to me, I was so upset.

I am frightened that he will go onto find someone, and that I was a complete failure to make this relationship work.

I just can't do it anymore, I just want to tell him thats it, no more, you can't continue to treat me this way? what sort of person are you, I am on my knees in despair.

He always said he wants to be my friend at the end of this. Friend? What sort of friend can do this to someone? This is punishment and game playing, I know all the MB principles and everything, but this is just cruel.

Hitch,

If you want a successful marriage to your H or to anyone, you need to get a grip. I mean this. You cannot invest in someone expecting them to make you happy. You cannot do something (loaning money in this case)that you don't want to do, and then blame him because he doesn't act like you want.

You should not have loaned him the money if you did not want to. If you had strings to attach to the loan it should have been put down on paper and a contract signed between the two of you. You need to stand up and quit expecting him to read your mind. Yes, his behavior is very poor.

But, if as you keep saying you want out of the marriage why would you care if he went with someone else? You were in the middle of your affair and you are worried about who he might be with? Does that make any sense at all?

You need to get off of your knees and decide who you are, what you stand for, and what your boundaries are. Until you do that NOTHING is going to change.

By the way he treats you this way because he can and he knows it hurts you. Probably almost as he was hurt when you had your affair. If you stop allowing this treatment the situation will change. Perhaps he will leave you or perhaps you will leave him OR...perhaps you two will finally see what it takes to make a good marriage and go for it.

Please quit focusing on him and focus on yourself and your goal of becoming a better person and a person that knows herself. Work on figuring out your boundaries and start protecting those that you have figured out.

Hang in there.

JL

Your right I need to get a grip and know myself better. I am find at dealing with others just not my H, it is because of the plan Steve has outlined has left me confused.

What was the outline?

Indeed!! I could not agree with JL more!

Hitch, I am starting to feel sort of maternal about you. You remind me SO much of me at that age. Listen to what JL is telling you. PLEASE.

Stop worrying about your age -- 35 is the new 25!

Seriously, when I was your age, I had just had my third child and it was dawning on me that my H wasn't all that nice to me but I didn't have the tools that JL is spelling out for you to do anything about it.

I am now FIFTY. I have floundered around in therapy for FIFTEEN YEARS trying to figure out what JL has just laid out for you. I can finally say I would be absolutely fine on my own. Being alone holds no fear (and at times quite a bit of appeal) for me, and it is not because I think there is some other man out there for me. If we divorce and I meet someone, great. If not, I am SO OK with it. I know without question that my H would have women flocking, and I'm OK with that too -- good luck to those ladies.

What I am NOT OK with is continuing with the farce of a M we have had.

I'm not the poster child for mental health -- I did just have an A -- but I do know some stuff. You cannot run on your wheel fast and hard enough to make him treat you well -- that has to come from him.

So LISTEN to JL. He is giving you absolutely superb advice. You have the muscles to do this -- you just haven't strengthened them.

Continuing to give to someone who is giving you nothing in return builds resentment and poisons relationships. If you could die of resentment, I would be dead (told my H that last night). You are collecting resentment chits and weighing them against the A chits he has and that kind of thinking is going to get you nowhere good in a really big hurry.

STOP THINKING ABOUT HIM AND WORK ON YOU (I'm shouting at you here).

Nuff said....

That I should continue to live with him in Plan A, not putting any pressure on him. If he stays out the Night I should show that I am upset, but not force him into anything, such as setting boundaries. Apparantly my H told Steve that he was more reluctant because of how things were before the A, so I need to tell my H that I sm researching into ways to make the relationship better.