I'm new here, feel very awkward discussing personal stuff online. My W suggested I check out this site. She has been very active on this site. She has been having an A for the last 7 months or so and came clean about a month ago. I didn't catch her (for this I feel like an idiot, as there were many signals-but that is another story for another day), but I guess she couldn't live with the guilt.

I am generally a very emotionally under control person, but I have been nearly out of control. I'm sleeping terribly, drinking too much (never had any alcohol problems in the past), having panic attacks, and so on. Those who have been through this understand I am sure.

She is very apologetic and adamant that she wants to work things out with me. She keeps telling me that I can take as much time as I need to heal and she will wait for me. She is a very impatient person, and can't help herself, however, pressuring me to think and talk about our future. I understand this needs to be done, but I don't think I am in a good mental state to make decisions right now (I could make a nice long list of bad decisions I have made in the last month).

I am fearful that if I keep dwelling on the past, at some point she will lose patience with me and start to lose hope. However, it is very difficult for me to put it out of my mind. I think about the A constantly. I have always been the stronger emotional person in our M and right now I am the one falling apart. Unfortunately, she is very shaky right now too. I have made the decision and commitment to try to make things work (go to counseling, make a plan for improvement, try to forgive her, etc.) Ultimately I want a happy, healthy M and don't want to see my family fall apart.

Any helpful feedback would be appreciated.

Hi Lost
I am so sorry that you are here, but hang in there you will get lots of good advice on this board.

Just wanted to tell you that you are not alone and that I am right now experiencing exactly what you are going through so I just wanted to say you are not alone.
Good luck to you!!

Insom, sorry that you are here and welcome to MB.

First off, your feelings are completely NORMAL. An affair is the most devastating thing that one person can do to another. You are most definitely NOT alone.

Have you read this thread yet? It helps guide BS(betrayed spouses) through this site. http://forum.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2370240#Post2370240 If you have any questions about what you read, feel free to ask.

Now, you say that your WW is active on this site, does she post? If so, what is her login name? This will just help us figure out what is being told to her, etc. Also, it is avised that you two stay off of each others threads. This allows you both to be completely O&H about what is going on and so that the people advising you can do what they need to without worrying about arguing with two posters. You two will get a lot more help that way.

Again, welcome. Know that this is a safe place, we are here to help.

whats your ww member/posting name?

WW is redeemme....I think. We have agreed to stay off each others' threads. We talk plenty to each other and email, so keeping our own space on this site shouldn't be a problem.

insomniac, it's a little slow here. Others will be along in not too much time.

I'm one of the folks who's been trying to talk some sense at your wife for the past month. I come at it from the perspective of someone who cheated on his spouse. My affair was the worst thing I've ever done, and it'll be my biggest regret if I live to be 500 years old. My wife & I have since saved our marriage & it is better than before. However, I can't speak from core experience re: the things a betrayed spouse feels. There are plenty of people on these boards who can, so hang tight, they'll be along.

For now, the advice I'd give would be:

-- Read the book "Surviving an Affair." It won't be easy or fun, but it will give you some perspective on how this stuff happens & what you can do to make it less likely that it'll ever happen again. I credit that book with helping to save my marriage, and my wife has written the same comment elsewhere on her own posts.

-- Exercise. Take it easy on the sleeping pills, and forget about drinking. Work out instead. You'll sleep better & you won't be punishing your body.

-- Your wife is in some serious withdrawal from her affair-addiction. That can take months to subside. One thing you can do to help is to spend time with her. This will occupy her time, keep her mind from being idle (when thoughts can drift to the other man), and will give you a chance to communicate. Dr. Harley (the expert who started this site) advises that couples recovering from an affair should get 15-20 hours' time per week for undivided attention to one another. This is tough when you've got jobs & kids, and it takes some planning & effort, but you can & should make it happen.

-- Communication is huge. Chances are, the two of you weren't doing enough of it before her affair. She certainly wasn't communicating with you as she should've been, about her needs, and after a point, obviously she wasn't focused on meeting or even bothering to find out your needs. Yes, SHE had the affair, SHE had the bad boundaries, but if you want to move forward, then you BOTH need to work at communicating better with one another. It may not seem fair that you need to put in work just as she does, but that's the reality of the situation in which your marriage finds itself.

-- The communication doesn't have to be (and shouldn't be) ALL & always about the affair, but should also about other things in your lives, things that aren't as painful to talk about. It's advisable to plan specific times when you will discuss the affair, so that you can get your questions answered & express your concerns & feelings, but it's helpful in the early months (& even thereafter) to schedule these discussions so that you are each mentally prepared, and so that the affair doesn't become the ONLY thing that you're able to interact about.

I started reading the book you suggested. Very difficult to read. I will resume, however. I wasn't sure about revealing who my W is, because I am not sure how much you would then already know about me/us and our situation. I like the anonymity, but I also want all the help I can get. I will trust that you do want to help and that knowing who I am will help you do that. It will also perhaps save me a little explaining. Lord knows I would rather not explain the whole situation yet another time.

We are spending a great deal of time together. We love to hang out, and when we are not dwelling on the A and our other problems, it is very good for us both. We took a break "vacation from our problems" for several days and it was so good. I started sleeping better and had some happy moments. W wants to confront problems and not "sweep them under the rug." I agree, but I lose control emotionally when we discuss our issues. I'm not sure what to do. Ignore the problem so that I can be happier day to day, or try to make progress addressing the problems and deal with the emotions that go along with it. In the past, my inability to discuss emotions and deal with problems has caused my W much frustration. I can see that frustration coming back. I do want to change this about myself, but I am not really myself right now. I want my W to fall back in love with me, but to be honest there is not very much to love right now.

I plan to stay away from the sleep aids. They make me jittery. I thought they were supposed to calm you. Also, I have been exercising excessively. I am unable to wear myself out. Too much adrenaline right now.

insomniac, you can see how good it is for your marriage to take a vacation from the problems. I would suggest doing that permanently. Marriage Builders is not about rehashing the past, but about establishing good habits for the future.


Can you tell me specifically what you are discussing that is so upsetting? Are you following the guidelines of Marriage Builders? Because MB does not subsribe rehashing the past.

I am not following any program. I am simply trying to follow what my therapist is advising and doing what I can to maintain my sanity. I do feel the need to know what happened with the A. It is difficult to hear, but wondering all the time is more difficult.

I get upset discussing our past problems and thinking about how we need to change them to have a better future. I feel pressure from my W and myself to think about our future together (if we are going to have one). I also get upset discussing the A, but I am the kind of person who needs to know so that I can deal with it. My need to discuss it, however, is waning.

ok, that makes sense. You do need to know the truth in order to move forward. But YOU get to set the level of detail you get and no one else. If you feel like she has told you enough, then it needs to stop.

But this discussion only needs to take place once and then it shouldn't be brought up again. It is not a process, it is one conversation where she answers all your questions and then it is done.


This is the reason that Dr Harley, the founder of Marriage Buildrs does not believe in bringing up past problems. There is no benefit to it and it only upsets the spouses. I would strongly suggest you NOT do that.

You don't need to discuss the past in order to make the future great. All you need to do is implement a plan to make the present and future great. Hashing over the past defeats that purpose..

I would check out this article and see how your therapist measures up:

Coping with Infidelity: Part 4
Overcoming Resentment
Dr Willard Harley



One of the reasons I'm not so keen on dredging up the past as a part of therapy is that it brings up memories that carry resentment along with them. If I'm not careful, a single counseling session can open up such a can of worms that the presenting problem gets lost in a flood of new and painful memories. If the goal of therapy is to "resolve" every past issue, that seems to me to be a good way to keep people coming for therapy for the rest of their lives. That's because it's an insurmountable goal. We simply cannot resolve everything that's ever bothered us.

Instead, I tend to focus my attention on the present and the future, because they are what we can all do something about. The past is over and done with. Why waste our effort on the past when the future is upon us. Granted, it's useful to learn lessons from the past, but if we dwell on the past, we take our eyes off the future which can lead to disaster.

I personally believe that therapy should focus most attention, not on the past, but on ways to make the future sensational. And when a spouse comes to me with unresolved feelings of resentment about something their spouse did in the past, I tend to put it on hold and focus on issues that prevent mistakes of the past from recurring. I ask them to trust my judgment, and see what happens to the resentment when the marriage has a chance to become fulfilling. In almost every case, resentment fades, as I predicted. While the painful memories are not entirely forgotten, the most recent marital experiences which are fulfilling and enjoyable, dominate a person's thinking, and resentment becomes weak and infrequent.
entire article here

Insomniac,

First of all......Welcome to Marriage Builders. For the BS, you'll find it's the best club you never wanted to join. But, since you are in this situation, you ARE in the best place you can be........{{{{Insomniac}}}}}}



You will find that following a program is the BEST thing you can do for YOU and your M right now. You have been dealt a HUGE blow and you might be feeling a bit lost and discombobulated right now. I want to assure you that this is ALL NORMAL, considering the circumstances. However, finding a program, that works btw, that you can follow while you gather your bearings will help you to focus. Otherwies, you end staying stuck in that lost wilderness.


I understand this. And it's a good thing you let us know who your wife was (I had a feeling before you posted it who it was) because we can help HER with this. The fact of the matter remains, you don't need to decide right this moment you want. In fact, it's hard to make that kind of decision under extreme duress and I would imagine her pressuring you pushes you away instead of drawing you closer. I would however, like you to consider calling the Harleys for some counseling. They can help answer any questions you have and help you two develop a PLAN to right this ship.

In the mean time, keep posting here and we all will help you get through this difficult time.......I am truly sorry for all of this......but you will get through it.

Not2fun


I also get upset discussing the A, but I am the kind of person who needs to know so that I can deal with it. My need to discuss it, however, is waning. [/quote]

Welcome to MARRIAGE BUILDERS

Please, stick around.

Bob's guide for the newly broken hearted (link)

This is in the archives, so you cannot post responses.
Please read.
Click on each link.

Since you have insomnia, this will keep you busy.

Welcome to MB.

It took me a long time to want to talk about our future as well, and my FWH was dying to do this...he wanted the security of knowing I was going to stick around and honestly, it was the furthest thing from my mind. I didn't know what I was going to do TOMORROW much less far in the future.

It would be best if your W could recognize this and stop putting this pressure on you ~ it's only pushing you further away. The best thing my FWH did was to back off on the future talk and let me address it at my own pace. In the meantime he continued meeting my needs, avoiding LBers and setting up/insisting on our 15 hours UA time/week.

There is way too much to read here in this site, even for someone who is sleepless. I'll keep at it, though.

I am absolutely ready to put past resentments from our marriage behind me and not even address our past issues as we move forward; it is a relief to realize that is even an option (not sure WW agrees). I am having much more difficulty putting A behind me, however. I don't really need to talk about it anymore, but I think about it way too much and I find myself having panic attacks over it.

I have a lot of energy (mental and physical) that I should be putting to good use, as I have not been doing such a great job. Physically speaking, I am trying to use my excess energy to get exercise rather than using it to break furniture. Mentally, however, I want to find a way to focus my energy on something more productive than self-hating and LBing W. I was reading about love banks accounts and I have a list from W of actions that would fill up her account. I have no desire to do so, because I am so angry and bitter, but suppose it is the right thing to do. My account right now feels more overdrawn that the Federal Government, but I suppose that is no excuse not to do the right thing.

I am also a short term goal person. If I have manageable short term goals I can meet them then make new goals. When I think about the daunting task that lay before us, I get overwhelmed and panic.

I am all ears.

ps. I have never posted info online like this or been part of any sort of support group, so it feels very uncomfortable to me. I have no concept of message board etiquette, so kindly let me know if I am not following SOP.

......Yes, the sleeplessness sucks. As you can see from my posting time, I'm suffering a bit from it myself..... .....though it has more to do with work than the marriage. I suppose that should make me happy.

BTW, I'm the BS and H and I are 2 yrs into R. Its been a lot of hard work (not to scare ya.....) however, its had a lot of rewards.


HOnestly, I wouldn't worry too much about her and this at the moment. Have you looked into counseling with the Harley's? They are the best!!! and worth every penny. Here's a link to some options on what they have to offer.....

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi7000_counsel.html

They will help you with a PLAN to get you through this difficult time. I'm telling ya, its worth it and you might as well go with the best.



Again, this is ALL NORMAL. Look at it this way, if you had just been shot, wouldn't it still be playing in your mind. Also, the Dr. H tells us that this is as BAD as being raped or losing a child.....that's pretty bad and so is adultery.

Watch this link to see what he has to say....

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi6806_inf.html

You have been through a terrible trauma. You are still in shock at this point. It will be a bit till you come out of it. And that's okay......just don't beat yourself up over it....



Have you seen a Dr. for this and if so, what have they suggested for this?

I have suffered with these of and on for 6 1/2 yrs. now. I had them under control when Dday happened. They sprang back up a few times, but not too bad, but ONLY because I saw my DR. 2 days after Dday and got help right away. I knew this was going to bring those back. It was the BEST decision I made at that time....it helped me endure what the next few months were going to bring me....(important note....my H didn't end his affair right away. It went on for another 5 months, hence the the last comment....)


You have been through a major TRAUMA, so give yourself a break. Which by the way, RedeemMe posted on what you did after OM emailed her the last time. Your confrontation with him was OUTSTANDING!!!!!......
I even said as much to RM. It takes a REAL MAN to stand up for his wife, marriage, children and most importantly, HIMSELF the way you did. I TOTALLY APPLAUD you for this. Well done........



This is the best thing you can do for yourself. It will help you in sooooo many ways. Also, make sure you are eating healthy and eating often. Us BS's forget to do that. But its so very important that you do this....for you.


Then stick to what works best for you.....make goals out for the day. Don't think about what you want for tomorrow, just stick to today. Say maybe a list of 3. If you are up to more, great, but start out small. Like today.....make your goals to be something like....

1. Read 2 chapters of SAA
2. Not to engage in any Love Busters with RM.
3. Workout for an hour

You make a list each morning. As you become mentally stronger, you can start making a list for 2 days. Gradually build your list up.



Have you learned any techniques to help you conquer this? Working out was a key one for me. Also, praying. RM has talked a bit about her faith, but tell us about YOURS. Sometimes, calling a friend or posting on here helped remove me from the attacks. And when all else didn't work, my Dr. prescribed me Zanax.....


I think I've taken advantage of them.......


This is okay. Hopefully, real soon you'll get used to it. Remember though, this board is anonimous and sometimes, it is easier to talk to strangers than IRL friends and family. Of course, stick around long enough, and you end up becoming family.......

And you are doing fine........

now get some sleep.....

Not2fun

Had a very good day with W today. My friend met with me last night and told me to swallow my pride and told me to try to meet emotional needs of W even though I was upset. I was upset with him, but took the advice and It made us both feel better. It is very humbling, however, to reach out the person that has betrayed you.

I have a few Q's. 1. We have a family wedding this weekend, and I am somewhat terrified of going. I still have panic attacks, and I am concerned a wedding ceremony at this time could cause me to lose it. Perhaps even the thought of losing it will cause me to lose it. Hope you can follow all that. W and I had a beautiful wedding, and to this day people always bring it up at weddings..."we could just tell you to were so in love." Conversations like this (which seem to occur at weddings inevitably) make me very uncomfortable. Only two other attendees know what we are going through, and we want to keep this a private matter (my choice), so I don't want to skip the wedding and make people wonder. Maybe this is one of those things I need to conquer at some point, and waiting would make it worse. Also, maybe attending a wedding will bring back good memories instead of painful ones. I am not sure what to do about it. Also, W thinks my desire to skip the wedding indicates that I don't believe in marriage anymore because of what has happened. So ultimately, I have no idea what to do.

Finally, 10 year wedding anniversary is next week and we are going on a trip. I anticipate that it will be hard to celebrate our anniversary. If that day is a big emotionally difficult day for me, I believe W will take it to mean that I am not interested in mending our marriage. I'll make sure to discuss it ahead of time with her, and perhaps that will help.

Those who have advice, about these topics, please share.

I think it would good idea to skip it because this wedding is a trigger to you. Not because you don't "believe in marriage" but because of the damage caused by your wife's affair. Your marriage is on the rocks right now because of her affair. So it would naturally be painful for you to attend such an emotional celebration when you are so vulnerable.



Your wife needs to do what it takes to help you, her victim, recover from the damage she inflicted. I agree it would be good idea to tell her in advance so she can help you through this.

In a recovering marriage, such as yours, it is the duty of the WS to "doctor" the BS into recovery. She needs to tend to your needs and help you recovery.

POJA this thing with Redeem. Let her know you cant attend because it will trigger you, and you are sensitive to these things right now. The best thing for you is not going to the wedding. Find something that you and your W are both enthusiastic about.

Insomniac,

I've posted a couple of times to your wife, not to you, but let me tell you of our own early recovery.

NC began in mid-June and in the next few weeks our life took some interesting turns.

Our niece got married one week after NC was established while my wife was in withdrawal and I was still trying to decide if just tossing the whole thing might be the easier road to follow. I was asked to take the wedding pictures and we drove the 4 hour trip in near total silence, attended the wedding, the reception and then drove back four hours in silence.

Two weeks later my SIL got married in the same town and we made the trip again with conversation still constrained between us and dealing with a cranky granddaughter since her Mommy (our daughter) had just started a new job as a trucker and so we had her ALL the time.

A week later we took a vacation together and though we enjoyed the time and got to visit with friends who lived 500 miles away, we were still not really meeting each other's ENs and my wife hadn't really fully committed to restoration of the marriage. That week did a lot to help her make that commitment but she was still second guessing her choice to return to the marriage even though she now realized OM would have been poison to her as well as our relationship.

30 days after SIL's wedding we got a call from SIL telling us that her new husband of 30 days had died of a heart attack. She came home from work at the hospital where they had both worked and found him dead on the kitchen floor. They married on July 1st and he died on July 31st. She had just changed the name on her driver's license on the day before.

The following weekend, SIL2, my wife's twin, was getting married for the fourth time to the guy that would have saved her the effort of the other three. So Wednesday my wife drove to her sister's house with our granddaughter, I followed on Thursday, attended the funeral and drove home, worked on Friday, had the wedding rehearsal on Friday night and attended the wedding on Saturday where I again took pictures and ran the sound for the wedding and my wife sang two songs in the wedding.

Two weeks later was our own 33rd anniversary. We took the following week off, visited SIL1 for a couple of days and took a dinner cruise on the Mississippi River that Thursday. It was during that previous week that my wife seemed to come out of withdrawal at which time she sent me an email thanking me for not giving up on her and us...

About 3 months or so after that I developed a "boil" on the side of my chest that turned out to be an infection that resulted in my being hospitalized in January with a resulting surgery, a four inch by eight inch hole in my chest that required another surgery to repair and it was during that time that my wife began to take care of me. That care showed that she CARED for me and it was what she was able to do to meet my needs at that time, which were far from my normal needs for about 4 months, that allowed me to begin to heal.

At first I had to help HER heal from the loss of OM and deal with withdrawal and the resulting depression and lethargy. THAT SUCKED. We idled along until I got sick and then I began to really heal. It was after that that we began to actually heal together as a couple and eventually we were able to begin to build a new marriage out of the ruins based on MB.

Today we teach MB to other couples, working together to help others avoid making the same mistakes that we made along the way.

Your marriage didn't fall apart overnight and it won't be put back together over night either. It will take time, a lot more of it than you would like.

But there is no time to start the MB program that can lead to the eventual great marriage you can have in the future quite like the present. As has been suggested, NOW is the time to begin using those things that will give you that kind of marriage. POJA is chief among them since it will be POJA that will result in compatibility and removal of resentment from your life together. POJA is what can stop either of you from sacrificing your own feelings and ending up hating each other because of that sacrifice.

You are doing well, Insomniac. You are way ahead of even some who have recovered their marriages since your wife is here learning as well. With both of you working the MB materials, there is really little that can prevent you from having a not just recovered marriage but one that is so much better than what you had before that it will make you wonder what took you so long.

Decide TOGETHER, with full ENTHUSIASTIC agreement, on how to handle the wedding and you will find that you will each feel closer to the other as a result.

Mark