armymama-

You are right in that they are going to be at an 2-day (overnight) meeting but H is coming home instead of staying the night.
Believe me, I am a total wreck on this one.
H leads the meeting and can't get out of it. OW doesn't have to be there but so far as I know will be.

OF COURSE she will be there! The affair is STILL going on!

Ask your husband if you can attend the meeting, take daughter to school then arrange someone to pick her up and go with your husband, you don't have to be inside the meeting, but knowing that you are there he won't do anything!

If he say's NO, then he is saying "I want to see OW with out you there" and you will know the truth that the A is still going

Coat closet - 10 minutes... that's all it will take.

Seriously.

If your husband is serious about recovery something else must be worked out - if nothing else, you must attend as well.

And he needs to quit his job.

And the OW husband needs to know.

It's typical around here for a person to stay in 1 thread. You having two is kind of confusing. Could you click Notify on one of your threads and ask a moderator to merge them? Thanks.

Island10, As I'm sure you've figured out by now, there is no way around exposing your WH's affair. You can choose not to, but then you'll be choosing to continue on in this hell. Seriously. People are telling you the truth. I'm sorry if you find it offensive. It's really not harsh and someday I hope you realize that. Everyone that posts to you has one goal in mind and that is to help you save your marriage. We could easily hold your hand and tell you, "there there now, that's so sad" but it wouldn't be honestly helping you.

I know this hurts, I've experienced it myself, as have many others who are posting to you. We've been there. We've walked in your shoes. We know the pain, the tears, the tightness in the chest, all of it.

Please stick around and give MB a try. If you follow the instructions to the letter, you just may end up with a fabulous marriage.

P.S. Please try and stick to one thread because it's easier to keep up with your situation. Most people (including me) won't want to go back and try to find the details. Having it all on one thread makes it much easier to help you.

(((Island10))) Welcome to MB! The BEST place to be to save your marriage.

Thank you for the responses so far.

H has exposed the A to two of his three main co-workers, and one knows the OW's identity.
OW works for a different organization in a different state so they only work together at these meetings several times a year and via email.

I have exposed the A to friends. H exposed the A to his sister and best friend and another friend.

So there has been some exposure, just not to the OW H by me.

I don't know how long I am willing to wait. I want to see what happens after this meeting at the end of the month and then decide. I want to check with the counselor about what she thinks.

I do want feedback from others to help get me make the choice. So I do appreciate it.

Keep it all on one thread! Ask the moderators to merge the two threads.


Why are you reluctant. Are you afraid of your husband. Operating out of fear is not how you kill an affair.


You need to work on your reading comprehension. An affair will likely die its own death in 6 months to 2 years ONCE YOU HAVE EXPOSED THE AFFAIR TO EVERYONE! Not exposing ENABLES the affair to go on much longer, possibly indefinitely. Where there is no consequences, there is no reason to change.


NO ONE. I can tell you plenty of posters who DIDN'T expose their affair, and REGRETTED not doing so. We have also had several limp-**** posters who didn't expose their affair for a long time and either a) finally exposed it months/years later, b) let someone else expose for them, or c) had the OP's spouse find out and expose the affair which usually ended the affair quickly and they regretted not exposing.

Why are you such a pansy conflict avoider? You should be angry about what your WH has done to your family and HE should be groveling at YOUR feet for forgiveness. I'm not trying to be mean, just snap some sense into you. If you let your WH go on this work trip and do not expose, I PROMISE the affair will continue to be physical on the trip. It's a GUARANTEE. If you don't believe me, get a PI to tail him while he's out of town. I promise, without you there watching him, he's going to fool around w/ OW some more, especially since OWH DOES NOT KNOW! That is why he told you OWH knows, so you think it is safe to allow him to go out of town and see her. It boggles my mind that you haven't learned not to trust a WH yet. Trusting your WH will do the right think is like just trusting a crack addict to stop taking crack on their own. They are addicted and are no longer in control of their actions. They will lie to continue their addiction. YOU need to step in and cut off the source of that addiction if you want it to end.

Island,

I understand your being a wreck about this meeting. OW will have a room if she is staying the night and your H will be right there during the day. She had a reason for asking about whether you would be there or not.

At a minimum, call the OWH. He can be a great ally to you and can keep an eye on his wife. He may insist the she not attend the meeting.

Exposure may seem counter-intuitive to most people. For me, it was the first thing I did - called the OWH. He was not surprised and told me many things that helped end the A.

BTW, I am an advocate of exposure at work as well. My H told his boss himself, but it took him about a month to get to that point. And others in the workplace aldready knew about the A.

AM

Are they going on the trip and will watch him for you? Do you trust them? If not, BFD.


Are they going on the trip? Can't he just lie to them and tell them nothing happened on the trip?


Then why bother with exposure if you are going to skip the two most important targets? (OWH and employer)


Most counselors are idiots. They have no clue how to handle affairs, otherwise, they should be a lot more successful at saving marriages. They are no more qualified that you or I if they have never been through this situation before.


Why bother. No one here is going to tell you it is not okay to expose. When you find out that your WH has continued sleeping w/ OW or that your marriage is not getting any better because of continued contact, just remember what I said.

combined threads

island, I am sorry you are here. But there is nothing we can do to help you if you don't take our advice. We certainly can't help you if you don't expose the affair, because you are - in effect - enabling the affair. That is like asking us to help you push the car up the road with the parking brake on.

Affairs thrive on secrecy, so helping the cheaters keep their secret only fuels the affair. You become the getaway car driver. While there are no guarantees, we have had affairs end the very day they were exposed. In your case, this affair has not been exposed at all. Your husbands so called "exposures" to his sister, coworkers is not exposure, it is spinning the truth.

Here is what Dr Harley, clinical psychologist and founder of Marriage Builders says about exposure:

here

a radio clip where Dr Harley calls a man an "enabler" because he helped keep his wife's affair a secret here

From that radio clip:


Island, if your main goal is to avoid his anger at all cost, you are probably not going to make it. In order to save your marriage you are going to have to make him very angry at some point. Your marriage can survive his temporary anger over being exposed, but it can't survive an affair. The longer this goes on, the more entrenched the affair and the more likely you will end up divorced.

That is not exposure, though, and has no meaning. Your most effective exposures would be to the OWH and to the employer and her employer.

Dr Harley is an advocate of workplace exposures, so I would most certainly start there along with the exposure to the OWH.

We have a workplace exposure template you can use for your purposes:

Developed by Brits Brat, board member and corporate attorney. This letter should be sent to the Director of Human Resources and cc�d to the adulterers supervisors and a key VP. It is critical that this letter be sent to several people and this known by ALL so no one person can give into the temptation to bury the issue.

To Whom It May Concern:

This letter is to bring a matter to your attention that may be a violation of your Company's Code of Conduct and/or other policies, procedures and business ethics.

WS and WS are involved in an extramarital affair that is taking place, primarily, in the workplace. Aside from the potential sexual harassment claims this situation presents, it also involves the inappropriate use of company resources and assets. WS and WS are using company time and company resources to further their affair. If you check the call histories on their office and cell phones along with their workstation computers, you will find the two of them are spending an inordinate amount of what should be productive work time to further their sexual relationship.

If you have any questions, please call me at xxx-xxxx. Otherwise, I will anticipate a response from you once you have investigated these concerns and taken appropriate corrective action.

Regards,

BS
_________________________

island - have you exposed to OWH yet? Your H can easily tell you his name (and probably many other info about him that he & OW discussed). Likewise, she probably knows plenty about you. Discussing the "flaws" of the spouses is the favorite topic of involved waywards.

I can tell you from my experience that there is nothing more powerful than exposure to the OP's spouse. In the case of my A, it was like a cyanide tablet. Immediate dead A. Exposure to friends, bosses, family is recommended here. It will be effective but should not take the place of exposing to OWH. Don't waste your time thinking "welllll, he told his friends and boss . . . .". I'm not sure where you work but in my industry, your WH would get a big high five and someone would yell "yay!!!" However, you can bet that OWH will not.

Unless you expose to OWH like . . . TODAY, then you have no hope of stopping the A.

Disclaimer: I am not a vet and therefore don't always have the very best MB centered advice. But, there is one thing that absolutely no one will argue with - exposure to the OPS is mandatory.

Good luck!! You can do it. Your WH will thank you one day.

Island, I think I know why you are so hesitant. We probably run in the same type "belief circles," and in those circles what we typically hear is "What were you doing to cause him to cheat" followed by "Jesus says forgive." Now the last one has truth to it - Jesus does say forgive. But the first one? Nonsense. It is wonderful to want to change yourself, but you did not cause this affair. His sin was his choice, and any resistance on his part to bear the fruits of repentance is continued sin.

When I first started coming to the forums, I often did a double take because some of this advice seemed counter to the theology I had heard. But what I had heard was bad theology. Forgive doesn't mean pretend it didn't happen and cover the sin. Turn the other cheek doesn't mean don't stand up for yourself. Think of this: A Christian marriage is supposed to be a picture of Christ and the church. Would Christ EVER betray His Bride and go off with a Harlot??? Your DH has perverted that picture. So it is okay for him to have some consequences - in fact, he NEEDS consequences.

I pondered never telling my DH about my A. He even says he had no clue it was going on, and since it was over, I could have just continued to live life. But there is no doubt in my mind that - had I not brought it to full light - it probably would have happened again. After all, I would have "gotten away with it" with almost no consequences. I remember a friend telling me, when I said I didn't want to hurt DH by telling him, "You already hurt him, Luri. He just doesn't know you hurt him. And that's just cruel."

Exposure is not cruel of vindictive. It's accountability. It's honesty. It's a cry for help for your M.

Island, I really hope that you will listen to the vets on here. The biggest regret that I have regarding my situation is not exposing! Exposure would have saved me countless months of heartache and pain. I have a feeling that you might be thinking the way I did. If I expose he will be so angry with me that he will walk out the door and divorce me immediately. But the bottom line is that he has absolutely no reason to be angry. He is the one who lied, who committed adultery, who did despicable things behind your back. And if he does get angry, then he does not for one second understand what he has done to you and that just shows you that your recovery on any level would be false. I know it sounds scary, but really, expose, expose, expose.

I am listening and I am trying to find out more about the OW H. I am scared- I am scared that this will be the thing that makes him walk out on me and more than that my kids. He is very quick to anger, and so far everything I have done has been the worst thing for any hope of R. I know I have nothing so far- no NC letter, no interest in going back to MC, not complete truth, no transparency. But there have been some signs of trying... he told me about the call from her last week (I never would have known), he is trying to be more transparent, he is trying to open up. I just started antidepressants and they wont work for 3 weeks...
I know I am all the things weak BS are but I haven't gotten there yet. I'm getting closer.

Island,

The "thing" that will make him walk out is continuing the affair. Right now, your H is doing enough to keep you off his back and still let him carry on his affair - right under your nose.

Overcome your fear. I know this is hard stuff, but bust up the affair and fight for your marriae for your family's sake.

AM

I know you are super scared. Scared of how he will react, scared that he will walk out on you, scared that he will divorce you immediately and you and your kids will be alone. This is totally normal.

But I think the important thing to remember about exposure is that it's not about being cruel or embarrassing your H, or anything like that. It is about being honest and garnering as much help as you can get from other people to help you save your marriage. Definitely read up on all the information on exposure that you can get on this site. There is a proper way to expose. Not crazy, mean, and vengeful. More like, I care about my marriage and my family and will do whatever I can to keep it together, but I will not tolerate a marriage that is built on lies and unfaithfulness.

While you are debating on all this, I would strongly recommend that you read Dr. Harley's books. At least Surviving an Affair and His Needs/Her Needs. It will help you immensely in understanding what is going on.

I am truly sorry that you are here. But I assure you that listening to the vets will be your saving grace. THese are people that have seen this story play out a thousand times and truly want to help you not only save your marriage, but have one that is great.

We have all been in your place. We understand your fear and pain. This MB program is thinking outside of the box. I know you think if you expose to OW H that he will throw her out and then your H will run away with her. In most cases the OP makes a committment to their own M when they are exposed and closes the door to the A.

Blessings.

The affair is more likely to make him walk out. And if he does walk out, you will be better off until he ends his affair. Affairs are so desructive and so abusive that Dr Harley only recommends that you endure this for about 3 to 4 weeks before separating. Women have nervous breakdowns and suffer years of post traumatic stress disorder from enduring adultery. It is right up there with physical assault.


We were all scared, island, but strength is a choice. You are all your children have so you don't have the luxury of catering to your fears. It is important that you stand up and fight for their family. You can make the choice to be strong TODAY.


This means absolutely nothing. Nothing he does means anything until all contact ends. Being "honest" about taking a call friom his adultery partner is meaningless. He should have never taken the call in the first place.

You should be more scared that your kids will have a slimeball excuse for a dad around them. That's what he'll be if he continues to lie to & cheat on their mother -- physically or emotionally. You should be more scared that he'd be around modeling an example of rotten behavior. He can change & get back to the man you'd like him to be, but that can't happen until the affair is killed. And if they're in fairly regular contact, if she's still in touch with him, if he still takes her calls, if he refuses to go "no-contact" with her, then the affair is continuing. Three hours away? That's only 90 minutes to a hotel midway. He could leave at lunch, spend 3 hours with her, and still be home for dinner.

Before you recoil, know that I'm speaking as a former good husband/good father, who turned into a slimeball myself, and who has since ended my affair & saved my marriage. What really killed my affair -- what got me to confess to my wife & start straightening up & flying right again -- was when my OW's husband found my OW out (via a P.I. that he'd hired). During my affair, I'd been content to keep it going as long as neither of our spouses knew. But I got sick to my stomach the instant OW told me that her husband had discovered our affair. That was more than I wanted any part of.

This business about him never being happy for your whole adult life? Hogwash. How'd you get two kids? He just isn't thinking straight because he's still wrapped up in the allure of his affair-fantasy. Once his OW's husband knows for real, it'll be a lot harder for her & your H to nurture that fantasy.

Marriages can recover from adultery & be re-made better & stronger than they were before-- I'm here to preach hope for you on this. That's what large chunks of this website are all about. However, "hope" is not a plan. You need to show him -- and your children -- that you have high standards for his conduct. I think you risk sending a mixed message to your H on this, if you fail to expose aggressively to the one other person who most strongly shares your interest in ending the affair. In fact, you risk sending a very clear message that you can be played. Please consider. Good luck.