I have been fighting against an addictive affair WH is having with a co-worker for over a year. I am implementing Plan A to the best of my ability while I suspect A to be ongoing. WH has gotten really good at concealing thanks to me always revealing every little clue. I am now sitting on the clues waiting for concrete evidence that the A is ongoing to implement exposure. (letters are ready and waiting)

I am not sure how well exposure will work because her ex's and family along with employers already know about relationship. But, I do not believe they know that we are still living as a married couple working towards reconciliation, and in MC.

At any rate, I have given way to many second chances to end up in the same position every time...allowing WH to have his cake and eat it too. Therefore, I am ready to expose and implement Plan B.

My question is...should exposure and plan B be implemented at the same time or should I expose, see where that takes us, then implement plan B.

Any advise on effective exposure under these circumstances would be appreciated.

While I wait, a job opportunity is developing out of area that WH does seem to be anxious about. I think he wants out of the A, but can't break free. (Like a drug addict who doesn't want to be an addict.)

pc, I would expose FIRST in the hopes you don't have to go to Plan B.


I suspect this will be a very effective exposure since I doubt they know he is a married man. That does not set well with most people.

How are you gathering evidence?

Sorry you find yourself in this sitch and welcome to MB.

Here is a thread to help guide you through this site, in case you haven't come across it yet. http://forum.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2370240#Post2370240

You definitely SHOULD expose this to everyone and do it the way that is suggested on the exposure threads.

Get yourself into a Plan A and make preparations in case you need to move into Plan B.

You need to expose and be in Plan A. Exposure is a part of Plan A and if/when you need to transition into Plan B, you want your WH to have a good memory of you and home.

You can do this.

pc, you started a different thread when you first came here, and were told the same thing you are being told on this one. You were told to expose, and somebody provided you with the template to a letter exposing to the workplace.

You did not take that advice. Have you taken it now, since starting this thread?

It is better for other posters if you do not start a new thread to continue discussing what is essentially the same issue in your marriage. Other posters need to quickly see your history and what you were told before.

Good luck with exposure.

MelodyLane... Thanks for the help.

I would not call it evidence, but more like clues at this point. There are occasional cat hairs on clothing (she has a cat), there are time he does not pick up my call or picks it up just before voice mail when on his way home from work (expect there to be a pay as you go phone he is talking on with her when I am calling), his accountability during lunch breaks is sometimes questionable when he says he only has time to hit a drive-thru or is to busy to take a lunch (lunch was a time for their #?$%*!). These are all things associated with how things were before when the affair was going on...so I see them as red flags and it is very hard not to jump to conclusions and maintain the guidelines of Plan A.

Sugarland... Wow! I thought this was a place I could come to for help. I did not realize I was not allowed more then one post or I could have just added to the last one. However, I thought this was a new topic...now that I learned about exposure I had some questions on it.

But,in the mean time, to answer your questions... this was a new post to follow up on what I learned in the original post. As I stated in this post, I have the exposure letters typed and ready to send if needed. I have nothing to expose if I do not have evidence that the affair has restarted? Right now it is some red flag clues and my gut that have me worried that the affair has restarted. The reason for my post was to find out if I should go into Plan B at the same time as exposure since I have been in Plan A for a few months. I am hoping that neither is needed, but I have my concerns.

Believe me, if there is proof of an affair, I am willing to expose...I have been the enabler(sp?) for far too long!

PS: Sometimes people have to be told things more then once to believe they can do it. This is a very vulnerable time for me with extreme low self esteem and if a few posts are needed to help me build confidence to do what is needed, is that so bad?

Hold on: this is a place you can come to for help. I don't think I said otherwise!

I never said you were "not allowed more than one post" (although I think you mean "more than one thread")! I am not in any position to tell people what they are or are not allowed on MB. I was telling you that it is helpful for posters to be able to quickly read your story and the advice you have already been given. It does help to know how long you have been fighting the affair and what advice you were given before. I had to do a search for your other thread to read that.

Why would you leave this website behind because I advised you to stick to one thread?

I could see that you had been the enabler even after you came here and were advised to expose. I was urging you to act on our advice this time.

Please don't leave the website; it is a place of incredible help and support. I'll stay off your thread.

ok, pc, you have me very confused. You start off by saying that you have been fighting an addictive affair for a year and then you tell us you have no evidence.

How have you concluded that he is having an affair if you have no evidence? And what would you be "exposing" since you have nothing?

Do you have concrete evidence that there WAS an affair at one time?

Have you read the Spying 101 thread?

I would suggest that quickly implement some of those methods to determine whether the affair is ongoing.

Put a GPS on his car. Then you will know exactly where he is for those lunch times.

Put a VAR in his car to capture phone conversations. Would you have access to his office environment?

MelodyLane...I apologize for being so confusing, but to be honest, I don't seem to have the ability to communicate very effectively these days. Every thing I type seems so lengthy and makes me sound so pathetic that I often just type and delete, type and delete. Let me try to explain with out deleting this time....
All though my marriage problems started late last March (2009), I only found this website about a month ago and have read many, many articles and many, many threads.
The affair was revealed initially by me finding a pay as you go phone on Apirl 28, 2009. WH moved out for about 2 weeks then decided we would try to reconcile and started seeking counseling by a Pastor at a local church we started to attend. Long story short, from late May through late October I found several times the affair was ongoing...I contacted his Mom and brother during this time and he also told his bosses what was going on at some point. Bosses response was they didnt care what went on in his personal life, but dont let it effect work. My family was also informed of what has been going on, but our two sons (one away at college, other at home but very independent at age 22) are not aware of any problems since Dad moved back home after being gone for two weeks. Every time the affair was revealed he would say all the right things and convince me that he wanted to save our marriage and after a few nights or sometimes weeks of one of us sleeping on the couch or in spare bedroom, I would end up giving in and believe that he must want our marriage to work or he would just leave when I open the door for him to do so amicably. After five or six times of revealing the affair I got to embarrassed to continue counseling with the Pastor as did he. So from November through April there was no counseling going on but we continued to recover from the affair, continued to attend church, an continued to let family think that we were working things out. However, again about four or five times through this period I found concrete evidence of an affair still going on. The evidence through out this entire year were finding about 4 or 5 pay as you go phones filled with text message between the two of them, finding photo of the two of them in his wallet on two separate occasions, recording of a phone call made to her, calls I made to her when I suspected something was up and she would confirm. Yes, I lived a nightmare in which I allowed to go on. However, I was always convinced that God wanted marriages to last forever and I would be able to forgive and recover with His help. You see it was easy to do this because WH was very attentive to my needs and I to him so we were having a great relationship when we were together, but Monday always came and he would always have to go back to work. Since mid September WH became very accountable for his time and started to show with actions other then just words that he was committed to our marriage. No more starting work early, when he would be late he would call me several times from work. Would call when leaving and then would call from car and talk until he was out of the work area (which is where she lives). Every evening, morning, weekend and holiday has been spent together so it is obvious the affair was going on during business hours, most likely when the bosses are out of the office, I presume. Well one day shy of a year of initial discovery I stopped into his office unexpectedly and there was a photo of him and her on his desk. In front of his boss I threw the photo at him and said that is it I have had enough. I turned to the boss and apologized for the intrusion but I was obviously miss informed about what has been going on here. (His bosses response to him after that was you need to get your act together.) I moved out and in with my parents for two weeks. His Mom and brother along with my family (except for son that was away at college) were informed that the affair was still going on so I moved out. Our older son promised me he would not tell younger son about our problems because he was going into finals. After two weeks, our younger son was due home for a week long break and WH suggested professional marriage counseling so I agreed to move back home so younger son would not have to deal with finding out about our problems again. Since that time, things have been going well between us, mc seems to be helpful, and wh is very focused on our future and planning ahead for things (anniversary trip coming up next month). However, as I stated in my last post to you, there are little red flags that pop up here and there along with a gut feeling that things are not as they appear. Then I read all the stuff on this site about how you can not recover from affair if ws and ap do not have complete separation. They work together and he has never been willing to quit his job. There is a current job opportunity brewing that would take us out of state and he seems to be favorable in taking advantage of the opportunity, but it could be months in development (this is happening through a good friend of ours, but there is a lot of red tape because it is the development of a new position with in a large corporation). So as I face each day with different emotions, I try to squash out the negative thoughts, ignore the red flags, pray for concrete evidence if the affair is ongoing or rekindled, implement plan A while preparing for another bomb to fall, and pray that God will help guide me to the truth rather it be good or bad. My hope and faith has been replaced with fear and doubts and it is hard to turn that around under the circumstance of them working together.

Sorry for diarrhea of the mouth, but I think that covers everything.

I guess you could say we are in recovery, but I live everyday waiting for the bomb to fall again...gee, wonder why that is?

I do love WH very much, want to reconcile and spend rest of our lives together. I know I can forgive and recover, but I feel like I am not being given a fair chance to do so with them working together. Our time together is great, but I struggle while apart.

PS: Our house is on the market which once sold would allow for us to consider relocation even if the other job isn't yet finalized, however the market is dead in our area and we only had a few showings in three months. Getting a break somewhere in my life would be very welcomed at this point .

I gotcha. The affair is still ongoing because they see each other at work everyday. All that has changed is that your H TELLS YOU that it is only business contact.

So, you don't need more proof that there is an affair going on because you already have it - he sees her at work every day.

Do you think an alcoholic can sober up and recover if he goes to the bar and drinks every day but changes the name of his drinks to "business drinks?" Because that is what is happening here.

My friend, you have enabled this affair. And my fear is that this has gone on so long now that it is very entrenched. He is used to having his needs met in 2 places and doesn't want to give that up.


No, you are not in recovery and never have been. First, the affair has to end. In order for your marriage to recover, your H has to withdraw and that will never happen as long as he sees his lover every day.


Your marriage counselor doesn't have the slightest idea how to save your marriage. None at all.

Do you want to save this marriage?

Sugarcane...I edited my post but obviously not quick enough. After rereading your post, and mine, I realized there was no need for me to be defensive.

If I want help I need to learn to accept what I am hearing and stop myself from thinking my situation is different so that doesn't apply to me. This is not easy, but I keep telling myself that divorce would be no walk in the park either.

Thank you for the thread info...I will check it out. I do not have access to his office, but will investigate into the gps and var for his car. Caught a conversation months ago on a recording device, but it is only good for 1 - 1 1/2 hours of time before battery dies. I got tired of playing Sherlock Homes but I see where slacking off will get me no where.

Since finding this website, I have spent a lot of time reading posts and the articles on MB.com and I am currently reading Surviving an Affair and I have two concerns/questions for some of the veterans on the site.

QUESTION #1: Is there a thread on success stories for those who followed the MB concept from exposure, to plan A to plan B? I ask this because it seems like the Plan B leads more people to plan D (by the signatures and posts I have been reading). I wonder if the the survival part is more geared towards personal survival and I am missing that part of the concept.

As an FYI, I have evaluated the carrot and stick guidelines and can say that I have exposed, many times over to just about everyone who is on the recommended lists (I have not exposed to OW 13 year old daughter because I do not believe that it would be morally right) so do not feel a need to expose or re expose at this time especially since I have no additional evidence that the affair may be ongoing. I fill that I am making a strong stand in Plan A guidelines (I could not have done this during the first several months of this mess, but I am getting stronger and feel I am doing what is expected in Plan A). It is my hope that the affair died the natural death that Dr. Harley discusses, but we are still working on relocation with new job for permanent closure.

QUESTION #2: How do you present MB recovery program to WW without them learning of the Plan A and Plan B concept when you are in the middle of plan A and feel that the affair has died the natural death Dr. Harley refers to.

Most Americans who get married during their lifetime will either have an affair, or have a spouse who has an affair. Of these, many will get a divorce. Dr. Harley even says that if a spouse wants to divorce a cheater, that spouse has his blessing. He'd do the same thing.

He's also said in another video that there's a very specific kind of dynamic at work in couples who seek out his help. One spouse is still in Intimacy or Conflict, while the other is in Withdrawal. Those relationships where both are in Intimacy tend to fix themselves with minimal outside intervention. If both are in Withdrawal, they get a divorce and move on. It's those other combinations that seek therapy.

The critical dynamic here is that usually one partner is already in Withdrawal, and the one coming here is usually still in Intimacy or Conflict attempting to salvage it.

Plan A's sole goal is to draw the Withdrawn partner back into Intimacy.

From there, the next step is to do one of two things: persuade the wayward to give up the affair partner, or execute Plan B leaving the wayward with the best possible sense of the person their spouse is prepared to be if they leave the lover, and to preserve what love the betrayed still possesses in hopes they'll remain in Intimacy or Conflict and willing to accept back the wayward if or when he/she accepts the condition of no-contact with the lover.

The reason we need a Plan B is only because Plan A can't last forever. Eventually, the Love Bank withdrawals caused by the wayward's affair will leave the betrayed hating him or her. Much of the time, Contrast Effect renders the betrayed's attempts to fill the wayward's needs moot; the Love Bank deposits just bounce off the Wayward Fog. Also the effort of a Plan A without any compensation by the wayward can leave the betrayed emotionally scarred. You gotta bail out of Plan A in time to save your psyche, and preserve a little love for the wayward. If you've lost all love for the wayward or have suffered permanent psychological damage as a result of their actions, you've Plan A'd too long. And may have torpedoed your chance of recovery because you're too battle-damaged to recover when just the presence of the wayward triggers you.

But make no mistake, Plan B radically reduces your chance of recovery. It's your last-ditch effort to try to salvage the marriage. Much like the "Hail Mary" pass in American football, you're in your own end zone, and you're just chucking the ball as far down field to the wayward as you can. If they catch, fumble, or join the other team, it's all up to them at that point. There's nothing further you can do; you've given up everything but hope that they will do the right thing eventually.

IMHO, your chances are no better than 50/50 with Plan B.

Plan B doesn't lead to divorce. Plan B is the result of plan A not working. It's the next step. If plan B doesn't work, then you have divorce. So, it would make sense that those that only plan A'ed didn't get divorced because plan A killed the affair. Usually the part of plan A that kills the affair is EXPOSURE. You saw that exposure seriously weakened the affair the first time. The problem is, you didn't make quitting his job and NC for life a condition of marital recovery. So you just allowed the affair to continue to grow.

Have you asked your WH to quit his job and write a NC letter? If he doesn't, then I would expose that the affair is still ongoing to OW's family and friends, their employer, WH's family and friends, and your children. You let your children and his family know that NC and getting a new job are essential for marital reconciliation. You plan A for a few weeks after exposure to let things cool down again and leave him with a positive reminder of plan A, and then you go to plan B.

If you think you need proof, just hire a PI or just follow him from work yourself.

husband did plan A and Plan B on me...results...

We are in recovery it has been about 7 months and we are very happy! Our marriage feels like it is at it's best, because we work on the MB principles.

Thank you for the responses and I pray that the recovery process continues to go well for all of you.

Doormat No More... I like your reference to the doormat plan. That was me and some would say it is still me since WH and OW work together. However, there is extreme progress being made between us and his accountability to me is helping me be patient while the job situation is worked out. He has agreed to new job and the one that is in the works would have us relocate to assure NC which he knows is a requirement of our recovery. The job change can't happen quick enough for either of us, but his accountability and my patience is preventing financial complications which would further strain our marriage.

jmwc95...he has agreed to new job and nc, but we are trying to do it without creating financial ruin which would happen in about one month of being unemployed (never planned for this type of situation while purchasing home, cars, rv...ect). While the job situation is being worked out he is fully aware that any reoccurance of the affair will lead to plan D (he knows nothing about me having exposure letters and plan B ready if needed). I would not be willing to be patient if a job was not in the works, but lucky for us, a job opportunity is pending. Not sure what will happen if job falls through...we may end up looking at financial ruin, but I have to at least give this situation a chance to happen.

Your description of what you�re living basically describes my parents, to include the grown kids caught in the middle.

My mom was eventually worn down by the false recoveries. She became a very angry person. Recovery is a very hard thing and you�re caught in a desperation stage right now where you want your H back and you put up with everything.

The fact is that your H feels safe with you and that you will always be there. That is a big part of the problem you�re having. You�ve shown a never ending willingness to forgive.

I would say Plan B is in order with clear guidelines written out for him to follow if he ever wishes to engage in the marriage again.

My dad did this with my mom for years. She forgave, he�d come back, things would be ok for a bit, then he�d see OW again.

Keeping this secret from your kids is a mistake. They have a right to know and should be told. They can also put pressure on your H and help hold him accountable.

But the path you�re currently on is the one that leads to divorce, which is where my parents finally ended up. She forgave him one time too many. She caught him in one last lie and finally had the courage to kick him out. No amount of begging or pleading on his part was enough for my mom. She was drained and could forgive no more.

This cycle you�re on must stop and it can only stop if he quits his job and offers 100% transparency. He must also understand that you will not forgive him forever.

Yes, God hates divorce. He hates it, but at the same time we are allowed to divorce for adultery.

What you�re doing to yourself by not setting clear boundaries is that you�re slowly killing yourself. Your heart is taking a toll from all of this. Your depression can and will get to a point where you hurt so much you want to end it.

My advice is that you have enough evidence. Plan B is in order. There is no waiting till you move to work on things. He�ll just continue the affair from a distance OR find a new woman to mess around with. Unfortunately you�ve shown him that you will forgive and forgive and forgive no matter what he does.

He needs to go NC TODAY. He needs to quit his job today. NC letter must be mailed to OW TODAY.

Failure to do so means he can get his butt out and get served with D papers. (you can always cancel your D if you file first).

This would show him you�re dead serious and that you won�t just forgive forever.

It took divorce for my father to wake up. My mother is happily remarried now and wouldn�t dream of going back to my dad, though a big part of her still loves him. But she�s not stupid. She knows my father is a cheater and will always cheat and she will not go back to him no matter what. Her current husband is a very good man who treats her like a queen.

The greatest gift a BS can give him/herself is the attitude and knowledge that he/she deserves better and that the WS is lucky that you�re willing to forgive. Take that attitude and that will help you.

Best of luck.