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We're approaching 1 year now since NC has been established with both my OM and my H's OW. We both wrote NC letters after finding MB. I had only been in very sporadic contact via email with the OM prior to that (mostly about stuff pertaining to our OC) and H's ex-girlfriend/OW was still sending the occasional email and calling trying to get us to "all be friends again." The NC letters seem to have worked, as there has been no word from either of them ever since - a very good thing.

But there are still some things I'm struggling with. Those of you who are familiar with my other thread in MB 101 know that our family has been through a lot in the past few months, so that may be part of the problem.

I've been having a great deal of trouble feeling "close" to my H. I do love him very much, but I'm having a hard time being intimate with him. Even non-sexual affection feels rather forced at this point. I try, but the feelings just aren't there. I'm not a naturally affectionate person, so touching without those "in love" feelings has always been difficult for me.

I know my H is noticing that something isn't quite right, but I don't know how to talk to him about it. I've tried a few times, but it never comes out right, and I feel myself holding back because I don't want to hurt his feelings. I really want to feel completely, totally in love with him the way I used to, but I just don't right now, and I don't know why.

We do our best with UA time. It's hard with his work schedule and a baby in the house and everything else that's been going on. Most weeks, we have a date night, and we spend some time together each evening. We go grocery shopping together and go for walks and just talk. We filled out the EN questionnaire awhile ago and started working on that, but I can't seem to find them now. I don't think we're doing a terrible job trying to meet each other's EN's, but I'm sure we could both do better.

I've just been getting this nagging feeling like something is missing lately, and I can't figure out what it is. I've been wanting to ask about this for awhile now, but I just couldn't get up the courage.

How do I fall back in love with my H? I thought the feelings I used to have for him would just magically return once the OM was completely out of my life, but that didn't happen. Very naive of me, I know. But now, I want to figure out how to get those feelings I used to have back because I really miss them.


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Originally Posted by writer1
How do I fall back in love with my H? I thought the feelings I used to have for him would just magically return once the OM was completely out of my life, but that didn't happen. Very naive of me, I know. But now, I want to figure out how to get those feelings I used to have back because I really miss them.

writer, the key will be the UA time meeting the top 4 intimate needs. It will take 20+ hours to fall back in love and 15+ hours to maintain it. If you aren't doing that then this program won't work.

The best way to achieve this is to sit down once a week and actually schedule it. And then stick to it; don't let anything else come before your marriage.

If you will do that, I promise you will find yourself falling back in love. But this is a corner I have found cannot be cut.

Dr Harley himself says that his program does not work if you are not doing this. He refuses to counsel couples who won't commit to this step.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

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I think we're doing pretty good on UA time. I don't really tally up the exact hours, but we do spend a lot of time together doing things that we both enjoy. We have good conversations. My H is much more affectionate than I am, but it has always been this way. SF is definitely a problem area.

We've never actually tried to schedule UA time, other than our weekly date night, which we've been very good about doing. I'm pretty sure we're somewhere in the vicinity of 15 hours a week - some weeks a little more, some a little less.


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WHat do you actually DO in that UA time though? Do you spend it meeting the 4 intimate EN's?


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On date nights, we generally go out to dinner and then do something that we both enjoy - take a walk by the beach, go for a drive and talk, etc. Sometimes we go to a museum or to the Wild Animal Park/Zoo in San Diego (we have passes), or miniature golf, hang out at bookstores, whatever. Our date nights are focused mostly on recreational companionship, conversation and affection.

At home, we generally spend some time every night after the baby goes to bed talking or sitting together on the couch. We hold hands and cuddle some while we talk. Usually during this time, the physical affection is nice and doesn't feel too uncomfortable, for me at least. We have SF maybe once a month (a problem, I know).

I think when I'm uncomfortable is when my H tries to get affectionate when I'm busy doing something (like when he comes up and hugs me from behind when I'm brushing my teeth or making dinner or something). My H is VERY touchy/feely all of the time, and I'm just not naturally like that. He'll also make a lot of sexual comments during non-intimate moments, which makes me uncomfortable. Sometimes, our needs in the areas of SF and affection seem very far apart.

But the weird thing is (hope this isn't TMI), when we get into bed and have an opportunity to actually engage in intimate acts, he does nothing at all. He'll just lay on his side of the bed with his eyes closed and not talk or make any advances whatsoever. If we do have SF, it almost always has to be me who makes the first move. I don't really have that high of a drive, and since he doesn't show much interest when we actually have an opportunity, usually I'll just pick up a book and start to read or go to sleep. But then if SF doesn't occur, the next day, he'll start saying things like how he would like to have SF more and how he misses me. I think I'm getting really mixed signals here. It seems like the only time he's interested in SF is when we can't possibly do anything about it (like when we're out somewhere or the kids are up and about). I'm really not sure what's going on.


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Originally Posted by writer1
I think when I'm uncomfortable is when my H tries to get affectionate when I'm busy doing something (like when he comes up and hugs me from behind when I'm brushing my teeth or making dinner or something).

Have you told him this is annoying? Is he groping? If he is doing something that is annoying, it is causing lovebank withdrawals, so all the deposits he makes during your UA time will be withdrawn.

Quote
My H is VERY touchy/feely all of the time, and I'm just not naturally like that. He'll also make a lot of sexual comments during non-intimate moments, which makes me uncomfortable. Sometimes, our needs in the areas of SF and affection seem very far apart.

Again, if his sexual comments are annoying, then he needs to know this.

Making love once a month is also a big problem. Part of UA time should be devoted to that several times a week. This will also make you feel more emotionally bonded to him if you get in the habit.

Quote
But then if SF doesn't occur, the next day, he'll start saying things like how he would like to have SF more and how he misses me.

Tell him this. Tell him he needs to initiate it.


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We've had numerous conversations about these problems, and it does help for awhile, but then old patterns start to take over and things just end up back where they were.

Our SF situation has a lot of complications. My H has had issues in the past (impotence and PE) which have gotten worse with age. He's been to a doctor and had some blood work done, but they couldn't find anything wrong. He doesn't have any medical conditions or take any medications. They gave him a few prescriptions (Cialis and Levitra) but they didn't really help much. I think this may be one of the reasons that my H is reluctant to initiate. He has the desire, but often not the ability to follow-through with it. I know these issues have made him insecure. They make me insecure too, because there doesn't seem to be anything wrong from a medical standpoint, so then I start thinking that it must just be me. My own feelings of inadequacy are fueled by the fact that, during his long-term EA, my H told me (more than once) that his ex-gf/OW told her H that my H was the best lover she'd ever had (back when they were dating before either of them were married). So now, I have this knowledge that apparently he had a great SF life with someone else, but we've always struggled in this department. I've spent so many years comparing myself to the OW, and I never feel like I measure up. For most of my M, I've always felt like she was my H's one true love and that I was just a nice, comfortable 2nd choice. It's hard to get past this, because this woman was an on-again/off-again part of my M for over 15 years.

It's been a year since we've had any Contact with her at all, but she's disappeared for longer than that in the past only to materialize once again.

Ugh.


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Quote
But the weird thing is (hope this isn't TMI), when we get into bed and have an opportunity to actually engage in intimate acts, he does nothing at all. He'll just lay on his side of the bed with his eyes closed and not talk or make any advances whatsoever. If we do have SF, it almost always has to be me who makes the first move. I don't really have that high of a drive, and since he doesn't show much interest when we actually have an opportunity, usually I'll just pick up a book and start to read or go to sleep. But then if SF doesn't occur, the next day, he'll start saying things like how he would like to have SF more and how he misses me. I think I'm getting really mixed signals here. It seems like the only time he's interested in SF is when we can't possibly do anything about it (like when we're out somewhere or the kids are up and about). I'm really not sure what's going on
writer, in my opinion YOU are going to need to bite the bullet and initiate. From my perspective your H is not feeling safe initiating SF. He is (again my opinion here) giving you hints throughout the day. He feels safe with this method until it is time for bed. writer, I know your libido isn't high but look at this from HIS perspective. Your libido was high enough to have sex with OM. Your H needs to feel DESIRED by you. I have been through this myself. It was horrid to know he could easily have sex with OW because it was "easy" and then after the PA ended not have any sexual desire whatsoever. I was crushed. I had no self confidence. The nights I got up the courage to initiate I was turned down. I got to the point where I would hint during the day/evening and then lie silently on my side of the bed hoping for him to want me, desire me and would cry myself to sleep night after night.


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Writer, do you think it's possible that you're not getting close to your H because you don't feel safe around him. During the crisis your family endured, you mentioned at least one very violent episode where you and the baby had to flee to leave H and DS18 to fight it out... is that lingering in the back of your mind? Has he ever followed through on that anger management counseling?


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Ima: He did some phone counseling. It was through his work. They gave him some techniques to use when he feels himself starting to lose control and also some books to read, but he hasn't bought the books. There have been no further episodes though.

I don't fear for my physical safety. My H has never hit me or anything like that. We've had a few fights where he was yelling and getting up in my face and grabbed my arm. Those were all either before my A or during it. It hasn't happened since. I don't think he would ever hurt me.

I know there are some EN's that are not being met right now that do cause a lot of stress. Two big ones are FS and DS. The constant stress over money-related issues does take a toll. It's hard for me to feel close to my H when we have almost daily arguments over money. Also, in the area of DS, there are a lot of things that have gone neglected in our home and are broken and no longer work and my H tends to be rather Type B and isn't so great at helping me get them fixed. Some of the bigger jobs it's just difficult for me to imagine trying to do them on my own while watching the baby. It isn't unusual for something (like the shower, the sprayer on the kitchen sink, etc) to break and several months or even years go by before anything gets done about it. I take care of most of the general housework, but there are some things I just don't know how to do (like plumbing) and there's no $$$ to hire anyone to do it.

It's hard, because I do appreciate the fact that my H goes to work everyday and tries his best to support our family, and he is looking for a better job.


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The only advice I can give is that a great part of love comes from thankfulness. You should cultivate that. You need to be thankful for his good qualities. Here's one. How about being thankful that he is willing to raise the product of your infidelity. Instead of looking forward to a honeymoon when the kids are gone. He gets to go back to square one and raise some other guys kid. He gets to spend over a quarter of a million dollars to raise him. And that's without college. I wonder if he was thinking those monies he has to spend could have gone towards retirement savings? I wonder if you think that he has probably extended the length of time he will have to work to provide for all of you. I wonder if he worries that there is no way he could ever be compared to the OM sexually? Which I can assure you has a definite effect on performance. You worry about the other woman. Question. Did he ever make the kind of commitment to her that he has made to you, and your son (Not his, Yours)? Oh and regarding the $$$ you don't have to hire a plumber. I wonder if any of that quarter of a million burden could have helped with that? This whole thread you have focused on what you believe your husband lacks. And you wonder why you don't feel love for him. Try focusing on the tremendous sacrifice he has signed up for raising a child that reminds him every time he looks at him, that he was your second choice in bed. Maybe, just maybe if you changed your perspective you could find some of the love you seek.

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Ouch: Problem is, my H wasn't my 2nd choice. He was my 1st. Just after more than a decade of trying to win an equal place in his heart and always losing out to the OW, I gave up. I distanced myself from him because I was tired of getting hurt. That distancing led to my A. No, that's not an excuse. There is no excuse for having an A. There are other ways I could have handled the situation. Many of them never really occurred to me, since I knew nothing about MB when my H was involved in his A. I didn't know about Plan A and Plan B. All I knew was that I loved him tremendously and I didn't want him to leave me and I thought the only way to get him to stay was to look the other way and let him have us both.

The biggest problem I've had on this site is the fact that, for some people, I will always be type-cast as the WS. And I am one, so there's not much I can do about that. But not every problem I encounter in my M can be traced back to MY A. The fact is, I had to live with the fact that my H was in love with another woman for 10 years of our M, that he in fact was still in love with her when he married me. I still have to deal with the fact that my H snuck around and lied to me more times than I can count for a decade. The fact that I had an A doesn't change any of that. Many of the issues and insecurities that I face are a direct result of being a BS. But I can't get any help for that, because every time I try, someone on here throws my A back in my face.

I do appreciate the changes that my H has made. I do appreciate how hard he works and his willingness to accept the OC into his heart and treat her (she's a girl, by the way) like his own child. But that doesn't mean that there aren't some issues that are still bothering me.

To answer your question, no, he never made a commitment to the OW like the one he made to me, but he has freely admitted that that wasn't his choice, it was hers. He's told me many times that he would have married her if she hadn't chosen the money & security that her current H could offer over the love that he had to offer. He says he's glad now that things didn't turn out that way, but for the first 10 years of our M, he was still holding onto the hope that she would agree to divorce her H and be with him. You know, it's kind of hard to get over something like that. And keep in mind, they were still in contact up until last summer, so it hasn't been that long. And she's disappeared before (for up to 2 years at a time) only to resurface again. She only lives 20 minutes away from our house. It isn't a very populous area and we shop at many of the same stores. It's hard to let my guard down. She's come back so many times. Oh, and their original plan was to stay with their respective spouses until all of our kids were at least 18 and then get a divorce so that they could be together. Her youngest would be about 12 now. It's hard for me not to wonder what kind of crap she's going to pull in 6 years.

What I need is some help in dealing with this, because I think a lot of it is still causing me to be very guarded about my feelings for my H. I know I'm still not 100% in this, and I don't want to keep holding back. Also, I want to learn how to help my H deal with whatever issues he may be having about my A. Trouble is, I don't know what they are because whenever I ask him, he says everything is fine and that nothing about any of it really bothers him. That makes me feel even more insecure, because it gives me the impression that he just doesn't care and isn't all that emotionally-invested in our relationship.

I want to learn how to get those lines of communication open and start breaking down some of those barriers.



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writer, did you read my post? FTR, I don't "see" you as only a FWS. However YOU are the one we are talking to here. If your H was here we could converse with him on what he is doing or not doing to meet your ENs.


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Originally Posted by writer1
Our SF situation has a lot of complications. My H has had issues in the past (impotence and PE) which have gotten worse with age. He's been to a doctor and had some blood work done, but they couldn't find anything wrong. He doesn't have any medical conditions or take any medications.

This sounds a lot like my situation. They only thing they did find was that my T level was at the lower end of the scale, but not low enough to require medication.


Originally Posted by writer1
They gave him a few prescriptions (Cialis and Levitra) but they didn't really help much.

Interesting. Cialis doesn't really do it for me, but Viagra and Levitra usually do the job quite well. Has he tried Viagra?

One of the "unfortunate" things about relying on ED pills is that it takes some of the spontaneity out of sex, which can as a result take some of the fun out of SF. Also, ED pills don't address the subject of desire. Are you sure your H is actually showing desire for SF, or is he perhaps just playing a role?


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FF: I did read your post, and I wasn't referring to you in my above statement. I guess it's just hard for me to initiate because I really don't feel "in the mood" that often, and since my H isn't showing much interest when we're in bed, it's hard to muster up the energy. I also just found out tonight that I have been diagnosed with subclinical hypothyroidism, and I do have some symptoms, including fatigue, which makes it even more difficult. Add to that my H's ED issues and the fact that SF is rarely satisfying for me when we do have it and you get a recipe for a very non-existent sex life.

MM: I don't know if he's tried Viagra. He might have once or twice. When he first went to the doctor, they gave him a bunch of samples. But those pills are extremely expensive and our insurance doesn't cover them and we are having huge financial problems. The pills do help with the impotence problem somewhat, but they do absolutely nothing for PE, which has been a problem throughout our entire marriage. Intercourse rarely lasts more than a minute, and I can't move at all or it won't even last that long. I just don't get a whole lot out of the experience under these circumstances. We've bought books and tried the various techniques to improve this, but nothing seems to work.


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Ok, I get the PE thing however if he takes care of you in other ways first then the PE thing is basically a non-issue. You will find you are not nearly as tired if you are being "taken care of". I never get enough sleep but I jump at the chance nearly 100 percent of the time that my H initiates. We went through a long, horrible phase of him having zero interest. My enthusiasm coupled with the reward he gets once things are in full swing has completely reversed that.

My life is one big ball of stress, writer. I understand being under stress and lack of sleep. All I can tell you is we have overcome at least this part of the problem in our M and it makes being M'd a lot easier to have the physical connection.

Last edited by faithful follower; 08/17/10 03:01 PM.

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I am trying to improve things in the area of SF. We've had a little success over the past week, so that's a good thing.

Faith's post about stress got me thinking. Stress may have a lot to do with our current problems with intimacy (not just SF, but all forms of intimacy). The fact is, I do feel unsafe with my H right now, but it doesn't really have anything to do with the OW or his A. I took a good hard look at what it was that was plaguing my mind and keeping me awake every night, and it wasn't her. It's our finances. I literally spend hours in the middle of the night sleeplessly obsessing over where we're going to live once we lose the house. This was compounded this week by the fact that our bank sent us an offer to do a deed in lieu of foreclosure, which would basically leave give us 60 days (if we chose to accept it) to find a new place to live. If we don't accept it, then we move one step closer to foreclosure.

With this black cloud hanging over our heads, it's difficult to relax enough to even think about SF, let alone enjoy it. Maybe it comes back to Maslow's hierarchy of needs. When you're stuck in safety and those basic needs are not being met, it's difficult to move up the pyramid into love and intimacy. I feel myself holding back from my H emotionally because, the truth is, I don't even know if we'll be living together a couple months from now. I don't know where we'll be at all. I know my H has the option of moving back into his parents' house, and he says he won't go there and just leave me with no place to live, but being homeless together isn't the huge comfort he means it to be. We still have 2 kids under the age of 18 at home and they need security and stability, and it just isn't there right now.

And yes, I do realize that my H shouldn't have to carry the financial burden alone, especially with our OC situation. He doesn't see it that way, because he considers our OC to be his own child, and really, she is in every way other than the DNA. But I still feel guilty for the extra financial burden this situation has placed on us. I feel bad that my job search has yielded no results so far. After 2 years of not working and not getting many responses to the resumes I've sent out, my self esteem isn't great. I know I'm battling a 15% unemployment rate and a horrible economy, but I still feel like a loser.

Okay, enough rambling. The stress is taking a toll, and I think it's standing in the way of us meeting each other's EN's (not just SF, but others as well).


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Time to sit down with H and balance the budget, go over all expenses and make a plan to live within your means. I have to sit down and POJA the budget with Sapph every once in a while and enact a plan so we can still live within our means.

Hopefully doing this together will help fulfill some needs, plus get rid of the anxiety of the finances.

have you two been spending enough UA time together. I mean real quality type UA time?

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UA time has been a problem, I admit. We can't afford a baby sitter, so we usually rely on our teens to help out with that. But with DS 18 in juvenile hall, DS 21 working (and just generally unwilling to help out in spite of the fact that he's living in our house for free), and DD 19 in Alaska, much of the burden has fallen on DS 16, who is rebelling mightily because of it. I get accused of making him "raise our baby" if I ask him to baby sit once a week so that my H and I can have a date night. We still try to squeeze in a couple hours a week anyway, but it's usually preceded by lots of complaining from our son, so not the enjoyable experience it could be.

We also spend some time together at night after the baby goes to bed on the weekends. Weekdays are pretty much a wash, since my H has to get up at 4:30 in the morning to go to work. All he wants to do at night is crash, and who can blame him?

I'm sure we're not getting the minimum 15 hours. But I don't know what to do about it, since we're fighting tooth and nail just to get what we do have.


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I find taking my son (who needs a stroller or wheelchair) for a walk with my H is good UA time even though DS is with us. DS is happy looking around so H and I get real conversation time in with little to no interruption. Take the baby on walks after the sun sets or it cools down a bit.

I know you are a writer. Do you journal your stresses or worries? How is your prayer life these days?


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