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SteveinJAX #2416917 08/14/10 06:32 PM
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Originally Posted By: SteveinJAX
Oh and another thing... she says that she never regrets marrying me, but she thinks we are just not right for each other. What the heck does this mean?


It means she has met a new point of comparison who she believes is right for her.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


MelodyLane #2416964 08/14/10 09:10 PM
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Melody, I will pick up a copy of the book in the morning and read through it as quick as I can. I really don't know how to kill her emotional investment in an affair, but I am definitely willing to learn.

During our date tonight, I realized that until I can get her emotionally invested in our marriage, conversation between us is really struggling. She does not want to complete any of the recommended questionnaires (EN and LB) because she is just not interested in trying at this point. Really frustrating. I will continue to be strong willed in support of my family, and work hard at continuing my changes to better fill her ENs.

I will continue to gather as much intel as I can and report back. Should I call the OM anyways? There was no recorded activity between the 2 of them today. I think I have her scared to lose her children, which may cool it off for a short while.

I really appreciate the continued support!


Me: BH (35)
WW (29)
DD (5)
DS (1)
D-Day: EA 8/7/10
SteveinJAX #2416969 08/14/10 09:24 PM
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Originally Posted By: SteveinJAX
Melody, I will pick up a copy of the book in the morning and read through it as quick as I can. I really don't know how to kill her emotional investment in an affair, but I am definitely willing to learn.


We will show you how to kill the affair. There are no guarantees, but we have successfully killed many affairs over the years. Your wife;s affair is in the early stages so this is very hopeful.

Quote:
During our date tonight, I realized that until I can get her emotionally invested in our marriage, conversation between us is really struggling. She does not want to complete any of the recommended questionnaires (EN and LB) because she is just not interested in trying at this point. Really frustrating. I will continue to be strong willed in support of my family, and work hard at continuing my changes to better fill her ENs.


There is very little you can do at this point. As you have observed, she is very detached. I wouldn't even bother with the questionaires. The best you can do right now is avoid lovebusters. And PLEASE go see what a lovebuster means. Avoiding lovebusters DOES NOT MEAN APPEASEMENT AND ASSKISSING. It means to be firm and direct about the affair in a polite way. Just as you did when you spoke to her about taking your kids.

Quote:
I will continue to gather as much intel as I can and report back. Should I call the OM anyways? There was no recorded activity between the 2 of them today. I think I have her scared to lose her children, which may cool it off for a short while.

I really appreciate the continued support!


I would make plans to call the OM at the first opportunity. Call him up and let him know there is no future for him and he had better leave your wife the hell alone OR HELL IS COMING. Tell him the things I told you above. Most OM are pansies so this might be enough to scare the worm off. It may even be that he doesn't know she is married!

And....don't say anything to your wife about this. See if she finds out and tells you.

You are doing great, Steve! Hang in there and maybe we can turn this around.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


MelodyLane #2417111 08/15/10 10:06 AM
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Copy of the book was not available at bookstores in my area. I just ordered it online, and should be here Tuesday or Wednesday.

I am going to call the OM this afternoon when my wife heads out to the store. I'll write back later and let you all know how that goes.

I'll focus on only avoiding love busters. I'll be cordial to her for now and continue to spend time with her and our children. Just to be clear, what constitutes ass kissing and appeasing at this point?

This evening when we talk, I will tell her again politely that I care deeply about our marriage and our family and I am not going to agree to any divorce or separation agreements, and that she cannot leave our home with our children without a court order. Though right now she is trapped in our home as she cannot afford to leave.

Should I start talking to an attorney at this point to cover my six in the event this does not work? Not giving up hope, just trying to protect my interests and my children.


Me: BH (35)
WW (29)
DD (5)
DS (1)
D-Day: EA 8/7/10
SteveinJAX #2417116 08/15/10 10:52 AM
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Originally Posted By: SteveinJAX


I'll focus on only avoiding love busters. I'll be cordial to her for now and continue to spend time with her and our children. Just to be clear, what constitutes ass kissing and appeasing at this point?


Appeasing means going along with destructive behavior in order to get along. I think you have the right idea about how to behave, though, Steve, in being polite and caring but at the same time being FIRM about defending your family and your marriage.

Quote:
This evening when we talk, I will tell her again politely that I care deeply about our marriage and our family and I am not going to agree to any divorce or separation agreements, and that she cannot leave our home with our children without a court order. Though right now she is trapped in our home as she cannot afford to leave.


This is perfect, you have the right idea.

Quote:
Should I start talking to an attorney at this point to cover my six in the event this does not work? Not giving up hope, just trying to protect my interests and my children.


I would QUIETLY find out what your rights are. Find out also if you are a fault or no fault state and if you can file on grounds of adultery if need be. You have the right idea here. You may need to file at some point to protect your children and your legal interests. BUT, that does not mean it is over at all. Many of our betrayed spouses do file for divorce but they drop the divorce when reconcilation occurs.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


SteveinJAX #2417119 08/15/10 10:59 AM
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Originally Posted By: SteveinJAX


This evening when we talk, I will tell her again politely that I care deeply about our marriage and our family and I am not going to agree to any divorce or separation agreements, and that she cannot leave our home with our children without a court order.


Follow up with a PLAN to recover your marriage and give her hope for the future with this:

"I want us to have a happy marriage where we are both in love. If you would end all contact with OM, I would be willing to work on the marriage and restore the love we once had. I have been reading at Marriage Builders and they have a plan to do this."

Here is the plan: How to Restore Romantic Love


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


MelodyLane #2417142 08/15/10 12:56 PM
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moved to SAA per OP request.


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MelodyLane #2417145 08/15/10 01:07 PM
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Steve,
Sorry you are here. You're getting excellent advice and I admire that you are staying firm in your commitment to work on your M. I believe it takes a courageous person to stay the fight when a spouse is emotionally or physically involved with someone else.

I read this today and thought of you and your situation.

"You know you're ready for a divorce when you can walk out the door with no anger, frustration or hurt. Otherwise, you've got unfinished business," says Dr. Phil. "Unless and until you look each other in the eye feeling peace, no hatred or resentment, you're not ready to get a divorce."

My pastor says the hurt in infidelity is what the WS does not see. Your WW is in a fantasy thinking she can leave her current married relationship and waltz into a perfect relationship with OM. What she doesn' see is she hasn't worked on the unfinished business with her married relationship. Most likely the problems she's had in her current relationship will resurface in another relationship. She doesn't see how her relationship with her daughter will change forever.

Maybe saying these things to your WW and then telling her let's exhaust every means to improve our relationship, our marriage, our daughter's future. If after we have tried and then believe we can walk away with no guilt, fear, shame, hurt, resentment - then and only then can we be at peace about divorce being the right thing for us, our daugther and our future.

In some way the above is why I stayed with my FWH. I knew we didn't work on the things we needed to work on and believe me it would have been easier walking away. I stayed, we worked at it and our relationship is better than it ever was (and that was after 17 years of marriage). Infidelity doesn't have to be an end - it can be a beginning.


Gg


D-Day #1 Aug/2007.
D-Day #2 1/27/12
Legally Separated
gg615 #2417191 08/15/10 05:50 PM
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Alright here are the events of today. I wrote my wife a letter while she was out shopping and she read it when I got home. Here is that letter...

I want you to know, and I know you already do, that I love you and I will not give up on our marriage and our family. Nothing that I say to you is intended to bully or threaten you into staying. What I am saying is that I will fight you tooth and nail. Right now, I am all our children have fighting to keep our family together and I will continue to fight for the. So please know that I will not agree to any separation or divorce agreement, and I will not allow you to remove our children from our home without a court order. These are not threats, they are promises. I lovw you with all my heart, but I will not allow you to destroy our family because you found temporary happiness somewhere else. And that's what it is... temporary. Once the newness wears off, you will be unhappy again. And our children will grow up resenting both of us. All I ask is that you dedicate time and effort to improving our marriage and allow me to love you the way you want to be loved. I can only do this if you let me. I have learned a lot over the last week about how difficult and fragile marriage is, but I have learned that we can recover from where we are right now. It's not too late. But right now, it's up to you. Just please remember that the grass is not greener on the other side of the fence and I will do everything to keep you on this side. I want us to have a happy marriage where we both are in love. If you promise to end all contact with (OM), I am willing to work on our marriage and restore the love we once had. I have been reading at Marriage Builders and they have a plan to do this.



Her Reply:

I think I have said all this before, but let me try writing it down. I really want to get all my thoughts out here. When I was young and thought about the man I would marry, I always thought he would just have to make me laugh, to have fun, and just enjoy life with me. I know we used to more together, but I don't think we've ever really gotten each other. When you came along, I was just getting out of a bad relationship, my father had died, and my mom had left. You were stable, and you took care of me. And I love you for those things, but is that a good reason to marry someone? I remember one time when XXXX asked me why I was getting married. My answer was something like, I don't know, because it that's what you do when you grow up. What kind of answer is that? I know you think that is is all about (OM) and finding comfort in something new, but I know in my heart that I won't be happy in this marriage because we just aren't right for each other. I don't know why you would want to hold on to someone who doesn't want to be here. I know you say our kids will be screwed but we can still work together to raise them into healthy individuals. I won't keep them away from you and for the times you are apart, there are phones, web cams, etc. How is that really different from when you are out at sea? You have been gone for months at a time and I still held things together, made sure XXXX did not forget about you. We both love our kids and this will only be hard on them if we make it that way. I think the situation is what it is and we can still make the best of it, and I think in the end, everyone will be just fine.



We talked briefly after the exchange of letters, and I reaffirmed that this was destructive of our children and that I was not going to let her take the kids without a court order and I was not going to agree to a divorce. She got quite angry and raised her voice, but I remained calm, and told her that was where I stood, and I was not going to change my position.

I called the OM today but only got voice mail after 5 attempts so I left a voice mail stating he had better leave my wife alone. There is no future in the affair because our kids will eternally hate you. If you continue, I will file for divorce for grounds of adultery and you will be brought in to testify under oath.

I have not received a response.

What are your thoughts on the events of today? Is it too far gone, or should I still fight? I recommended her to get counseling and I don't know if she will do it, even though she says she will.

Thanks.


Me: BH (35)
WW (29)
DD (5)
DS (1)
D-Day: EA 8/7/10
SteveinJAX #2417200 08/15/10 06:20 PM
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Originally Posted By: SteveinJAX


What are your thoughts on the events of today? Is it too far gone, or should I still fight? I recommended her to get counseling and I don't know if she will do it, even though she says she will.

Thanks.


You did very good! I would not put any faith in anything she says right now. Typically, when someone is high on an affair, they tend to compare their marriage to the fantasy affair feelings. It is like a crack head comparing reality to the high of crack. Real life always pales in comparison. But when the high wears off and she has to face reality, the crack doesn't look so wonderful.

Your wife is very foggy so it will be important to not take anything she says seriously. Dont' fight with her, dont allow her to bait you into a fight and most of all: don't try to reason with her. She is not using reason so trying to reason with her will be about like trying to reason with a falling down drunk.

Just stick to your plan: snoop on her and do your best to bust up this affair. Don't let anything she says sidetrack you from that plan.

Quote:
? I recommended her to get counseling and I don't know if she will do it, even though she says she will.


This is very dangerous to your marriage. An individual counselor will counsel her to go by her current feelings, which is to leave you for another man. The C will help her achieve that goal.

If you want to try counseling, try phone counseling with one of the Harleys, because they will try and save your marriage. They are completely different from traditional counselors in that they are pro marriage and they actually know how to save marriages. [traditional marriage counselors have an 84% failure rate and actually have a higher personal divorce rate than the general population]

The Harleys will SELL HER on the prospect of having a happy marriage with you. They are very good in getting reluctant spouses on board with the marriage. If you can swing this, it would be your best bet. They charge about $200 a session, but they are worth every penny. If you can get her to agree, this would be your best bet, because you have ONE SHOT at this, Steve.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


SteveinJAX #2417210 08/15/10 07:00 PM
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Originally Posted By: Steve's WW
I think I have said all this before, but let me try writing it down. ... You were stable, and you took care of me. And I love you for those things, but is that a good reason to marry someone? I remember one time when XXXX asked me why I was getting married. My answer was something like, I don't know, because it that's what you do when you grow up. What kind of answer is that? I know you think that is is all about (OM) and finding comfort in something new, but I know in my heart that I won't be happy in this marriage because we just aren't right for each other. I don't know why you would want to hold on to someone who doesn't want to be here. I know you say our kids will be screwed but we can still work together to raise them into healthy individuals. I won't keep them away from you and for the times you are apart, there are phones, web cams, etc. .... We both love our kids and this will only be hard on them if we make it that way. I think the situation is what it is and we can still make the best of it, and I think in the end, everyone will be just fine.


Steve, please disregard this drivel. Every word of it is directly out of the "Wayward Wife's Handbook." They all say the same things. I heard every sentence above at least once in my own situation. It's just bizarre how many times you hear these refrains as you start reading posts and comparing stories.

Don't listen to anything she says any more than you would listen to a drunk asking for the keys to your new convertible.

You're doing good to listen to Mel and the others about how to break up the affair and get on with building the marriage you really want. It will take time and work, but you can do it. Stay strong.


~optimism

optimism #2417224 08/15/10 08:24 PM
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Melody et al, thanks for the words of confidence. Lots of fireworks here in the house tonight. Just spoke to a mutual friend of ours and got the third degree. She is really rattled right now, not that it means anything.

I have to go out to sea (I'm in the Navy) for a few days, but will be back on Wednesday. I'll try to check in from sea as we do have some internet out there, but very slow.

I appreciate all the kind words of encouragement. You guys are really keeping me going right now. It is very difficult to deal with some of the harshness being dealt out, but I will prevail.


Me: BH (35)
WW (29)
DD (5)
DS (1)
D-Day: EA 8/7/10
MelodyLane #2417225 08/15/10 08:26 PM
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Melody, I put in a request for Dr. Harley for this coming Friday night.


Me: BH (35)
WW (29)
DD (5)
DS (1)
D-Day: EA 8/7/10
SteveinJAX #2417229 08/15/10 08:40 PM
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Originally Posted By: SteveinJAX
It is very difficult to deal with some of the harshness being dealt out


Don't listen to that either. Consider the woman living in your house to be a replica of your wife. Except that her mind is so scrambled up right now nothing she says makes any sense on this planet. You can respond (you seem to have a knack for it); but don't react. You can offer her a cookie, or a cracker, or a potato chip. [Waywards like those types of things. smile ] It'll break her train of thought (and that's a generous use of the word "thought").

I'm worried about your trip. I think you need to get ahold of OM if you can, before you go, so she doesn't have time to spin all kinds of yarns about what a cruel, despicable, mean, selfish, controlling (one of my favorites), abusive, allusive, obtrusive, SOB you are ~ it will only strengthen their bond. OTOH, if you let him know he's got the fight of his life on his hands and that things were just fine before he showed up and he really should play with other single people and if he doesn't stop contacting your wife he better hope there's a hospital close to his house.... he might get the hint.

~opt

SteveinJAX #2417233 08/15/10 09:05 PM
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Steve, how often do you have to travel overnight? If that is a frequent ocurrance then it is the source of the problem. When do you get out of the Navy?

You are doing a great job standing up for your marriage! I know it is tough right now, but the things you are doing are the most likely to save your marriage.

If you have a mind, you might want to show your wife this article about how divorce impacts little kids. I posted this to another man in your very position a few years ago:

Quote:
oh no, your kids will not be "ok." They will never be the same. They will suffer psychological and developmental damage that will effect them for life. Children from homes with bad marriages fare much better than children from broken homes. They will never be the same.

And don't tell your wife this until next week after you have told your girls, but the OM will be eternally hated by your girls because they will blame him for the ruination of their family. Your wife has this fantasy, as do most waywards, that she can seamlessly replace you with the OM, but that is never how it works. Never. Waywrds try to introduce the kids into the affair in an attempt to give it an air of false respectibility. They use the kids for this purpose.

This is another good reason to expose to the OP's parents. If they know this is nothing more than a sleazy affair with a married woman they will be less likely to allow her to darken their door. This exposure will deal a major blow to the future hopes of the affair because it will be much harder to show their faces around decent people who know the truth.

For your wife's reading pleasure:

An Exploration of the Ramifications of D...ege of Medicine

Divorce is an intensely stressful experience for all children, regardless of age or developmental level; many children are inadequately prepared for the impending divorce by their parents. A study in 1980 found that less than 10% of children had support from adults other than relatives during the acute phase of the divorce.

The pain experienced by children at the beginning of a divorce is composed of: a sense of vulnerability as the family disintegrates, a grief reaction to the loss of the intact family (many children do not realize their parents marriage is troubled), loss of the non-custodial parent, a feeling of intense anger as the disruption of the family, and strong feelings of powerlessness.

Unlike bereavement or other stressful events, it is almost unique to divorcing families that as children experience the onset of this life change, usual and customary support systems tend to dissolve, though the ignorance or unwillingness of adults to actively seek out this support for children.

Early latency (ages 6-8): These children will often openly grieve for the departed parent. There is a noted preoccupation with fantasies that distinguishes the reactions of this age group. Children have replacement fantasies, or fantasies that their parents will happily reunite in the not-so-distant future. Children in this developmental stage have an especially difficult time with the concept of the permanence of the divorce.

Late latency (ages 8-11): Anger and a feeling of powerlessness are the predominate emotional response in this age group. Like the other developmental stages, these children experience a grief reaction to the loss of their previously intact family. There is a greater tendency to label a good parent and a bad parent and these children are very susceptible to attempting to take care of a parent at the expense of their own needs.

Adolescence (ages 12-18): Adolescents are prone to responding to their parents divorce with acute depression, suicidal ideation, and sometimes violent acting out episodes. These children tend to focus on the moral issues surrounding divorce and will often judge their parents decisions and actions. Many adolescents become anxious and fearful about their own future love and marital relationships. However, this age group has the capability to perceive integrity in the post-divorce relationship of their parents and to show compassion for their parents without neglecting their own needs.

Conclusions
Divorce and its ensuing ramifications can have a significant and life-altering impact on the well being and subsequent development of children and adolescents.

The consequences of divorce impact almost all aspects of a childs life, including the parent-child relationship, emotions and behavior, psychological development, and coping skills.

There is a significant need for child mental health professionals, along with other child specialists, to be cognizant of the broad spectrum of possible fall-out from a divorce and then to provide sufficient support for children of divorced parents in all the necessary psychosocial aspects of the childs life.

Abuse Risk Seen Worse As Families Change

- Children living in households with unrelated adults are nearly 50 times as likely to die of inflicted injuries as children living with two biological
parents, according to a study of Missouri abuse reports published in the journal of the American Academy of Pediatrics in 2005.


- Children living in stepfamilies or with single parents are at higher risk of physical or sexual assault than children living with two biological or adoptive parents, according to several studies co-authored by David Finkelhor, director of the University of New Hampshire's Crimes Against Children Research Center.

- Girls whose parents divorce are at significantly higher risk of sexual assault, whether they live with their mother or their father, according to research by Robin Wilson, a family law professor at Washington and Lee University. . . .

- The previous version of the study, released in 1996, concluded that children of single parents had a 77 percent greater risk of being harmed by physical abuse than children living with both parents. But the new version will delve much deeper into the specifics of family structure and cohabitation, according to project director Andrea Sedlak.



"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


MelodyLane #2417239 08/15/10 09:40 PM
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Quote:
I know you say our kids will be screwed but we can still work together to raise them into healthy individuals. I won't keep them away from you and for the times you are apart, there are phones, web cams, etc. .... We both love our kids and this will only be hard on them if we make it that way. I think the situation is what it is and we can still make the best of it, and I think in the end, everyone will be just fine.


Here is an MB thread which you might find interesting. It's called "The Fantasy of Divorce".

http://forum.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2279757&page=1



Me, BW
WH cheated in corporate workplace for many years. He moved out and filed in summer 2008.
Mulan #2417253 08/15/10 10:18 PM
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I haven't read through you thread have you exposed this affair yet?

And I believe the others, that letter she wrote, I believe she copied and paste it from the "wayward wife's site" I actually wanted to throw up when I read it puke

SteveinJAX #2417264 08/15/10 10:46 PM
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Originally Posted By: SteveinJAX
Melody, I put in a request for Dr. Harley for this coming Friday night.


Steve,

Breaks my heart for you son. I am a Navy guy too and hate it for you the ship is pulling away from the pier while all this is going on.

Its gonna be hard, I have been there too. Keep doing what mel says and log on when you can. These people saved my sanity, and they will guide you well through the tough times to come.

SWW

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I couldn't get a hold of the OM yesterday, but I left him a message stating exactly what you had recommended. He obviously got it. Here are the e-mails from her computer last night"


Thanks, %%%. i feel like I'm always saying that. I guess goodbye for now. Again. And I miss you too.


>>
> If u really gonna leave him it's worth it. Do it the right way. Kids are ur top priority and that's how it should be so I'm good with that. I like u and miss u and I'll wait. I'm not going anywhere unless u tell me u want to stay with him. I'll be patient and I'll wait. Ur worth it. U deserve to be happy &&&&. It's gonna be ok.
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>
> >
> %%%%%, I truly am so sorry. You really don't deserve this [censored]. I'm sorry he called you. He was drinking today and he's hurt and has been lashing out. I'm still going through with this, but I have to do it the right way so I can keep my kids which it seems is going to take a while. So I guess I really do nee! d to quit talking to you. I really am so sorry about all of this and I want you to be happy and I promise I won't bother you with this anymore.
>
> >> > To stop calling u. That he'd divorce u for adultery and Id have to swear under oath. That u two where gonna work it and and I had no future with u. That ur kids will hate me for eternity.
> >
> >
> >
> > > >
> > I'm so sorry, %%%%%. What did he say?
> >
> > > > > >
> &g! t; > No he called twice from his phone and once from urs. Left me a nice message
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > > > >
> > > what? did you talk to him?
> > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > U know he called me 3 times today.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > Hey, I know I said we couldn't talk and we still can't, but here I am again. I just wanted to let you know that this might take a long time and I would totally understand if you said to hell wit! h that girl i don't need her bullshit. And I also wanted you to know that no matter what, I think you're cooler than the flip side of my pillow. Ok, that's it I guess.





Last edited by BerlinMB; 08/16/10 10:35 AM. Reason: removed names

Me: BH (35)
WW (29)
DD (5)
DS (1)
D-Day: EA 8/7/10
SteveinJAX #2417310 08/16/10 07:50 AM
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 92,985
Likes: 1
M
Member
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M
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 92,985
Likes: 1
Looks like you are causing trouble in paradise. grin And the funny thing is that your wife cant say anything to you without admitting she has been in contact.

Quote:
I like u and miss u and I'll wait. I'm not going anywhere unless u tell me u want to stay with him. I'll be patient and I'll wait. Ur worth it.


This tells me there was a PLAN, Steve. I would keep reading for now and don't say anything. If she is addicted, she won't be able to quit contacting him and you can get more evidence over the next few days.

In the meantime, can you find out if he is married? Can you tell from his facebook page?


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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