Well, I'm still thinking about it. I told her no as of today, but in my heart I'm still milling it around. She says, "it's not a sin mom." I know that, but it's so "worldly" in my opinion. Actually, most of her friends are on my side. Ironically her youth pastor and his wife both have tattoos and their ears gauged. It's hard for me to argue with that. She says, "Do you think J*n is worldly? or B^&*n? I don't think that, but I wonder why she doesn't bring anything else home from church besides piercings and such.

I also don't want to be one of those moms who suffacate their children with rules, but I also don't want attracting the wrong crowd.

Signed the boys up for football....$240 and that's without pants/pads, shoes, and a practice jersey. I'll be up to $340 by the time I'm done. I'll be busy though about every night. It will keep my mind busy though....and eating? who has time for that?

I did tell my then-teenaged girls that the choice to mutilate their bodies became theirs when they were out of my home and paying all of their own bills.

Until then, the body-mutilating choices under my roof were entirely my own.

If their bodies were going to be mutilated, I GOT TO DO IT MYSELF, and my weapon of choice would be an early morning surprise, body part to be chosen by lottery.

They somehow stopped bugging me for strange piercings and NEVER asked for a tattoo under my roof.

Sometimes, you just have to know that as an adult, you recognize teenagers' passing fancies and stand up for the kid when they can't see for themselves what the future "self" might really want. Those are the hardest times to tell them "no" as a parent - when you know it is the right thing for later, and the thing they think they want most right now.

Hang in there, HopeE.

Thanks SB,

I did stand my ground and told her, "no". She made a bit of a fuss, but not terrible...I'm sure she's talking about me to her friends though...oh well...I've definitely had worse happen.

Well, I'm a proud mama tonight. I left work, picked up DD14 from school, took off for Academy and bought everything for football. Then, I went home, threw clothes on and headed for the football field. DS7, the one that's always a hand-full, was signed (like a draft) for the best team in his age group. Yes, can you believe they draft in little league? These people are crazy!!! This man walked up to me to sign my baby, and I was like, "what do I do with this?" Well we want to make sure we take care of it now as these things sometimes get away from us." Then this neighbor friend of mine leaned over and said, "Kim, this is a good thing...he's probably going to start on the best team."

Well, imagine my surprise as we just showed up and hadn't been at the practices all week. We just came to the Friday practice,so he could get a change to play. He's so excited and very athletic, but I was so surprised by all this. He's about one head taller than everyone of those boys...another surprise to me. I've always thought that he was a big boy, but my boys never played in sports, so I didn't see too many comparisons.

Anyhoo, It was a nice bit of wonderful after everything else I've been through. I love these little victories. The kids are all skating tonight, so I'm getting a little bit of relaxation before tomorrow.

Can't wait for the first game!!

Hi hopeE-

My extra DD (family friend who came to live with us after her mom died at age 19-she's now 28) has a couple of very nice tattoos. She has a great philosophy about tattoos that I think is pretty good.

Before her first one (a Celtic cross on her back that she got on the anniversary of her mom's death) she had two possible tattoo ideas she wanted. She held onto them for a year to make sure she really wanted that design with her forever so that she would KNOW that she really was happy with it. As a professional make-up artist, she knew that it was waaaay more expensive to remove a tattoo than to get one.

Her philosophy rubbed off on my kids. My DD25 waited until she was 21 to get a very artistic tattoo of her own design done. My DS22 got a nice trinity knot on his back at 19. My YS18 talked about getting a tattoo awhile ago, but hasn't done it yet.

I like her idea, because too many kids get a tattoo just because they "can". As an alternative high school teacher, I've seen a lot of "I got it because I turned 18" tattoos that my students regretted shortly after getting it.

Hope this helps.

thanks Johnstwin,

I've basically decided to not let her do it. I told her when she turned 18 that she could make her own decisions at that point....same with the gauging.

DS10 asked me today, "mama, could I call daddy and ask if he can come by and chat for a little?" I said, sure, call him and see if he can. A few days before this conversation, DS10 had asked me why the mama gets them for so long and the daddy only gets a couple of weekends. I explained to him that when the temporary orders were put into place, I left visitaion open in the sense that if he wanted to see them more, he could. I guess DS10 wanted to try this out.

Anyway, he called WH and asked if he could come by because DS10 wanted to give him a picture of him and talk. WH said he couldn't because he has to go see his attorney and he's tying a letter. As soon as DS10 hung up the phone, he started crying for about 10 minutes.

This is the most amazing thing to me about all this. If it were me, I would be driving over to him in a second. Who sees their attorned on a Saturday anyway? I'm amazed at how long he can go w/out talking or seeing them. At least they will know that he has this availability, but doesn't operate within it.....sad really.

I have to confess something.....at church, I signed up for the hospitality committee....we make meals for those who are sick or in hospital. I was signed up for tonight and anyway, when I found out it was for a family of 11, I started to grumble a little...saying things like, "I can't afford this, who has that many people in one house? If I'd known that, I wouldn't have signed up." Not a very good example for my children. Anyway, when we got there and went up to the house, the older daughter is one of DS7's teachers at after-school care and we love her so much. This family had been through a basic surgery and it took a turn for the worse with a major infection. The mom was home now and so appreciative. Anyway....asking God to forgive me for my attitude...it was stinky. I also told my boys that you should never complain because you never know the situation. We should never question the sitch...just serve and give without the why. Anyway, I won't do that again.

HopeE, you're an amazing woman! I loved your story about the stinky attitude. I have a story about that very subject over on "Other Topics" and the things children say. Anyway, I'm glad you were able to bless that other family.

As for the football thing? That may solve your problem of aggression between your boys. It'll probably wear their little butts out!

Good for you for standing strong as far as your daughter goes. She WILL thank you later for this.

Thanks Princess,

I'm hoping the football will wear them out before me. It will really make my evenings so easy. The two most difficult boys will be playing on the fields for two hours and I can grade papers, do lesson plans...whatever for those two hours while at the field. I've already got my chair ready to go.

Church this morning and I really felt good this morning. Telling God how much I love him and I can't wait to see what he does this year.

Two of my biggest struggles? My weight and my finances....I have the hardest time with balance. WH knows this too well and it was definitely a LB in our marriage. I did lose 7 lbs in the one week back to school...I couldn't believe it. I guess all the running around has helped me out. I'm going to work out a budget and see if I can keep up with it.

Well, breakfast and then off we go to church.

Oh man....this is soooo good. I was out buying shoes for my DD14. While doing this, DS10 called WH and asked if he was really thinking of coming home....he led the kids to believe that this might happen....he said, "I'm not saying no...I'm just saying I don't know."

Well, DS10 I guess was anxious and called WH to ask him again. He said, "I'm not saying yes and I'm not saying no." He said, "I'm going through with the divorce, but maybe we could date after and see what happens."

Here comes the best part.....my DS11 and DD14 were appalled!!! DS11 said, "he just doesn't want to commit....that's just a way of backing out without having to try to work on anything."

DD14 said, "that's the dumbest thing I have ever heard of....that's like saying I'm going to get an abortion and then we can try again later."

Man, my kids are smart. Know this, once the divorce is final...that's it. I have to say my bank just went down even more. I was surprised that I really wasn't bothered. He kept telling my son that your mom really doesn't love me like a husband just like the father of her children. He also said, "she won't even talk to me and this IM thing isn't working. That's his opinion. It's definitely working for me.

Hey HopeE. Glad everything is going well over there. Sounds like you are holding up. Your kids are AWESOME.


Translation: WAHH WAHHHH WAHHHHHHHHHHHH I want MY own way. She won't play my game and I don't like it. Wah Wah WAHHHHHHHH

Keep your chin up, you are a shining example.

Thanks Scotty,

More gaslighting for the kids tonight. Telling my DS11 that they misunderstood him. He didn't mean coming home; he meant he and I maybe getting back together....what? He must think his own children are so stupid. He said, "I'm not sure if I want to give your mother another chance." Ok, I had to laugh on that one.

DS11 says, "mama, daddy keep swearing that you are not in love with him....that you just love him like the father of your children. Good grief, yeah that's why I've been like this for the last 4 months because I don't love him.

On the upside....football practice was great!!! My boys worked really hard and now they are back there cuttin some major zzzzzs. I loved watching them and I think it's going to do wonders for my DS10 self-esteem.

tough day

Well, I picked up the discovery today from my lawyer. The main thing I wanted to see were the phone records from the last year and all he turned over were the last two months with new phone company. The company he was with for the last 5 years and who he was with during the A....those are missing. Also, the two phone statements he turned over did not list calls or time. I know his former company did list these items. I'm going to call my lawyer and tell her that the discovery is not complete. I'll do discovery on the OW if I have to.

Everytime my children go with WH it's a nightmare. They call me continually with cries of boredom and worry for their father. He manipulates them with stuff like, "I wish I was never born", "In case I die, I don't want you to believe that I ever did the things your mother said that I did."

The list goes on and now my DS11 called me to discuss with me my GPA in college because WH told them that I never made the dean's list (which is a lie) and that he had a higher GPA than me. What are we in Jr High? He continually blasts me and dashes any positives that my children would mention.

DS also text me today and said, "WH just drowe by OW's house and looked to see if she was home." I can't believe this man!!!! He tells my children that "She's the meanest woman I've ever met." "She ruined my life"

Really??? I thought he ruined his own life. My daughter didn't even want to go with him this weekend and this caused major problems and he went off on some depression.

I'd say he still wants this other woman; I don't see any light.

When will this be over? Will my children make it through this mess?

HopeE-

I think you need to set some boundaries with your kids when they are with your WH. First of all, no phone calls unless it is an emergency. This means someone is not breathing or something is on fire. Make it very clear. Phone calls about your gpa in college and their boredom with him are NOT emergencies. Even stuff like "when I die...I don't want you to believe the lies your mom has told you..." is NOT an emergency unless he actually turns blue and stops breathing after he says it.

He is still trying to manipulate you into some kind of contact-even if it vicariously through your kids calling you about trivial stuff. When they bring up stuff that he says like "she's the meanest person..."blah blah blah...just say "that doesn't sound like me, does it?" and let it go. When he blames you for everything and they bring it up, point out to them that you don't even have the power to make them eat their veggies, pick up their socks, or clean the bathroom if they don't choose to, so you certainly don't have the power to do *whatever* he is telling them.

Your kids are old enough to see through his manipulations, they just don't know how to deal with them. I think you can explain it to them in age appropriate ways. For instance, your DD14 certainly understands the self-created drama of junior high/high school kids. Your WH is acting in a similar way. Just ask her what she thinks when her friends say similar "that person ruuuuinnned my life!" kinds of things.

I hope this helps.

hope, I agree with Johnstwin. The kids should not be calling about all this stuff. It is driving you crazy. It is a bunch of nonsense and your kids know enough now to understand how silly he is.

I do think they should be coached to call you if he plays the suicide card again. And if he does, then you should call 911. That will quickly break him of the habit of playing the suicide card!

HopeE-

Maybe you can come up with something your kids (especially the older ones) can say when your WH starts to spew about you...like
"We spend enough time with mom, this is our time with you. Got any cookies?"

Okay-it may not be the best thing to say. I'm just brainstorming here....

Thank you both....I know my plan B sucks sometimes. It's hard when they call me up crying because they are worried about him. Melody, I did call them as you suggested and basically he's dancing around the suicide issue. He mainly says things like, "I wish I had never been born" and "If I die, then...." How do I ignore these thing?

I did tell DS11, who is the main deliverer of messages, to stop talking about me with WH and just let him cry or whatever. He's in this place because of his own decisions. I did tell DS11 that if he ever states that he wants to die or that he's going to kill himself, that he needs to tell me. I am going to speak to my lawyer about these latest issues.

I agree with ya'll that he's still trying to send his messages through the kids. I guess it's his only chance because he never speaks to them any other time.

Melody, he does make me crazy, but this time I was angry as opposed to being depressed over the messages. When he does this stuff, it makes me realize how unstable he is in life.

HopeE-

You need to explain to your DS11 the difference between "I wish I had never been born" kinds of statements (which are fishing expeditions for either 1) sympathy or 2) contact through the kids with you) and true suicidal comments. You might even tell him it's okay to say "Dad, when you say things like that, I am worried about you wanting to kill yourself. Should I call 911?"

If it comes out of the mouth of his DS11 it might serve as a wake-up call to your WH, or at least give your DS11 some kind of "control" over the situation, because he will be calling his dad on how your WH's are coming across to his kids.

Again, I'm just brainstorming. Hope this helps a bit...

((((((HopeE))))))

Waywards really are crazy people. They also always seem to revert back to a teenage mentality regardless of their true age. It's painful to watch. Sorry you have to deal with this.

I think that JT and Mel made some good suggestions about what you should do. Get darker and help those children. If your WH realizes that the kiddos aren't sending you the messages anymore than he will give up trying to use them. Plug up the hole. It's up to you to tell your children what to do and let them know that you are doing it for them.

I personally didn't have to deal with this sitch, as I am working when the kids are with WH, but I did make sure to tell the boys that I will not talk to them about their father, but I will talk to them about the feelings they have. My DS10 came home a few weeks ago and said, "I don't want to go there anymore." I asked him why he felt that way and we talked through it. I explained that he needs to go. I also told him that he needs to talk to WH about his feelings and explain things to him and not be scared to anger WH with the truth.

Wayturds really do suck AZZ.

I hope you can get this hole filled in.

Hope,

Tell the kids that you will be giving your cell phone to a friend while they are at WH, and will not be contacted unless it is an emergency - a TRUE EMERGENCY - and explain to them what that might constitute.

You do not have to actually give the phone to the friend, of course, but tell them you do this, in order to protect yourself from such contacts.

If they believe that you are not reading the texts, and you no longer text them back when they contact you about such things while they are with WH, this behavior will stop.

You don't have to do much more to make it happen.


SB