Hope you are doing well 1TS. I empathize with you on both points- that it is SO hard not to take responsibility for the feelings of those we love. I thought I was over this myself, until a guy I had been dating for a few weeks was having a rough day: I told him I wish I knew how to make him feel better but I didn�t. He said �It�s not your job to make me happy.� I was so shocked!

The other thing I feel for you is the not sure you want him back. My husband was addicted to risk/money not alcohol, but with very similar �Dr Jekyll/Mr Hyde� behavior. Always apologizing, but never actually following through on getting help and stopping the harmful behavior. At first, I really wanted to save our family, and entertained taking him back. With the guidance of those on this board (postings disappeared when the server crashed last year) I laid out some very reasonable conditions he would have to meet and precautions we would have to take from this point forward. He decided it wasn�t worth it. After being single 11 months, having stabilized my son�s life, care, and schedule things are so much better. There is NO way I would go back with that man, and I no longer feel OBLIGATED to do so or GUILTY for not. My son is happy now. He doesn�t cry all night. He has friends. They can actually come over and play with him. Life is good. And my ex has not changed.

Hope you stay firm in your decision to do what�s best for your kids (whether that ever includes him doing what he needs to do in order to renew a relationship with you).

DTC

Daisy and Process:

Thank you for the thoughts.

The issue of feeling responsible for someone else's feelings is still there but I think I have more of a handle on it, yes. Daisy, I had a similar experience with a guy I was dating and wanted to fix his bad week, say something or do something to make him happy so I could feel useful or loved. Wild. He didn't respond either, he just said that he wasn't looking for someone to fix it, he is just having a crappy week.

The most important thing is my girls are happy and calm. My oldest was not a happy child back when ex and I were together. We were too busy arguing to give her what she needed. I'd give her a lot when he was at work, but once he got home and the drinking started, things really fell apart (I was a stay at home mom for a few years).

Now I have my career and finances on track.

He is currently in debt and barely out of school looking for work at age 40. He already had a masters, but hated his career so he went in a totally different direction. Anyhow, when I left, I felt like I was on the Titanic and had to get off. I still feel that way. Not only that, I had to row way out as to not go down with the ship due to the pull from it sinking. Now, I think he's trying to tread water and get his life in order, but his life is still chaotic. I don't want that in my life.

And I told him this late last night that I'm simply happy and don't need the chaos. He continued to say he knows what I need and what is right. He said it again when he called me today. I had to school him and let him know that there was a time when I questioned whether I even had the ability to know or find out what was right for me...and now I let him know that I know ME better than anyone and I'm perfectly capable of figuring out what is right for me. He's so used to being in the driver's seat! It's interesting to note. He's so used to me just agreeing with him and going along for the ride.

Oh well. Who knows, but I am not deciding on this in 2010. I know that.

Thanks!!!!

He is being very disrespectful to assume that he knows what you want or need better than you. He is not listening to you. He is telling you how it is. HUGE RED FLAG!!!! I would not even date him at this point.

Often times when people counsel here it sounds like they have no mercy and are beating the crap out of your dreams. I want to assure you that we all know how hard it is to come back from this stuff, both on your half and his. The advice given can be hard, but its objective and we are not wrapped up in the sitch so its benificial in the long run.



This is a great attitude on your part and was generous of you to give him the time and explain yourself and your growth, but it still speaks of his attitude of "I want to come home, forget it all, and it will all be better". Its more of his denial coming out. Although it may be good for him and you to be kind to him when you HAVE to talk to him. Even that is leading him on and endangering his recovery and sobriety. Not to mention the heartache of talking to someone you know inside needs more than coming home, and the chance you will be drawn in again.

You should let him know you don't want to talk to him, and find an intermediary person he can communicate to you through. The IM should be aware of what to pass on to you that is appropiate and allways be the only way he can communicate with you. Everything, including visits with the children, should be done without personal contact and thru the IM. I know you think that you are smarter and capable of handling it, and maybe you are smarter, but I assure you it will just drag out his recovery and be more pain dealt out in the long run. You've come a long way, let him find his own too.




Absolutly..This is hard and fast good judgement and advice. Listen to these words and trust them.


Sounds like a responsible attitude on his part, why drag someone into something they can't do anything about? Its his responsibility and he is handling it. Now if you had done something wrong and he didn't address it, and tried to handle it if it was seriuos, that would have been unhealthy for him and you. I think you know this now but want to warn you cuz you used to do that and it can sneak back in.

Don't feel bad, we all grow out of this behaviuor as we mature, if we mature and grow. I wouldn't rob a young couple of the experience of trying to make it all better and all the emotional dependancy that comes from it. I would also want to see them grow past it while learning about themselves. Your XH has a long way to go.


First what guy with a masters decides to go another way when he can provide for his family? A selfish and messed up one. This must have been devastating for you to endure. Knowing he had the means to care for you and yet he drank and played escape artist for every important responsibility. This so typical for severe alcoholics, or denial in general,to be looking for the perfect situation because the world owes them happiness.

He should have been happy with what he had, and untill you could take no more you probably thought it was up to you and it dragged you down. Like you said, you had to row far away from the ship. I know how this feels and have experienced it.

Just as a warning, if he trys to sell you somehow that God will be mad at you for not giving him a chance, don't buy it. God expects you to come to God, not play God. God will be angry if you get between H and Him. God knows H needs it.


I truly hope that he can be the man you need him to be, for you and you children reguardless if you decide to get back together. He is a long way from that and accepting responsibility for his actions. I can tell that from his desire to be hame and the time it took to get even a little help to realize how messed up he was.

When he can accept that you don't have to even shouldn't take him back and the massive pain he caused you is so embarrassing to him, and he cares enough about you to let you go completly rather than expect you to forgive him for it and live in fear, maybe he will start to be a better friend and father for the children.

He still is asking you to handle it and take more and us humans are not built for that, trust me I know. For your childrens sake be strong, because you know how he can drag you down.

What they said, plus
From what you've said, your ex sounds scared and desperate. He's coming to you of fear and not love, caring or security. And he has demonstrated ZERO ability to care for you. (NOTE: I use "love" to mean the feeling and "care" to mean the action. Your actions (care) cause his feelings (love) and vice versa.)

It may be worth while, Twisted, to figure out if you feel love for this man, or you love the man you think he could be, or if you love the idea of being married to the father of your children. That may not change what you do now or even in the future, but it may be important to know.

I think he's coming to you because he wants you to "fix things" so he doesn't have to (codependency). You need to show him the strong independent woman that you are and let HIM be responsible for HIM separate and apart from you. Tell you'll take a look in a year or two at what he's done to better himself, but for right now YOU need the space as you're still working on YOU and taking care of your kids! Ten to one he doesn't have what it takes to do what he needs to do to make things right in his own life, let alone think about the kids and what's best for them.

x2

Yah.

I think he's used to the self doubt that was basically a huge part of who I was. All he had to do was plant seeds and he could manipulate me into going along with just about anything. He keeps trying this, in a much nicer way, but still, he keeps trying to get me to think what he's thinking...and since it's not totally working...or seems to work but then he gets a call from me saying otherwise, he's confused.

I'm sure it'd be better if I didn't speak to him and had someone in between, but I know myself and that won't happen.

I do believe that since I don't contact him very often and only return his calls if I think it's necessary, I don't feel I'm getting in the way of his recovery too much. I believe that his recovery is his issue, I know I can't do anything to help it along.

My children have been with me every day this week (I'm on vacation) and they've said nothing to me about being together. I think it could be that he's manipulating them (i.e. wouldn't it be nice if mom and dad were together kids?) and then saying they've said it. I wouldn't know. I just find it strange that he tells me the girls say this all the time to him yet they hardly say a thing to me.

Anyhow, I know in my heart that the timing isn't right. It may never be.

I also know that I do have a love for him and haven't figured out whether it's love for something he used to be or something I wish he'd be or something he is. I'm confused about that right now.

Most important, I have stability for myself and my kids. And that's worth more than anything to me.

Good for you!!!

Stability is vitally important for children, people don't always look at it in that perspective for their kids. And then the kids are dragged through stuff they never should be and they have no stability!!!

Stay strong!!!! I have a necklace that a youth group was selling that symbolizes "staying strong" they were staying strong against drugs and alcohol, but I wear it as a reminder whenever I need to stay strong against something in my life. Maybe you can find a symbol for yourself that reminds you that you are staying strong and providing stability for your kids. Just a thought!!!

Dawn

Good Twisteds, Glad you are moving forward, and wisely.

These past two weeks have seriously been a test in strength. I am certain GOd is testing me.

The one guy I did sleep with in these two years I've been divorced called me up last weekend asking me to come out. Saying no was hard, but I did because I know what he wants and I think we all know what that is!! Also, this other guy I dated lightly keeps telling me pretty much all I've been wanting to hear all these years from ex...but I told him I can't deal with him either because I just don't need a relationship of this kind in my life right now. I've got WAY too much on my plate just with my own self, my girls, and my work.

I'm alone tonight. THe kids are at their dads...and a part of me wishes I could do the whole friends with benefits thing with that guy I mentioned.

Anyhow, it's been a tremendous exercise in self control for me this week between ex's pleas to be together, the guy on the side guy wanting to be with me, and that other guy being Mr. Romantic Guy. Sigh. Forget them all. I'm having chocolate icecream and calling it a night!

Stability is the goal.

Day: Good idea about the symbol. I have a bracelet. I also have various quotes around the house on post-its to remind me...

YAY YOU!



I remember that confusion. Some people indeed feel love for the current spouse. Some feel love for what the spouse used to be. Some feel love for what they wish he could be, or what they thought he was. In my case, I felt �love� but it was more for the status of being married. So selfish, I know. I loved the status of being �married� and, I hate to admit, was more in love with the idea of being *somebodys* wife than with being *his* wife. To me, being married meant I was worthwhile. Being single meant I was worthless. Thank God for counseling so I no longer feel that way!

Just so you know, most of the divorce sites I�ve read say it�s normal to still feel love for this person who represents a huge portion of your past. You�ll sort it out in time. I can�t find the link, but I thought even this site likened it to gashing your hearts apart, and little pieces of each other still stuck together� little pieces of him stuck in your heart in spite of all the pain he�s put you through. So that�s normal.



YAY YOU again! One more round of applause for 1TS!!

I think it's okay to love someone so long as you do what's best for you and the kids and don't let that love get in the way of reason and sanity. LOL
You're doing well! What kind of ice cream???

I'm doing my best. Sigh...the old lover texted me last night saying he really wanted to be with me. I said no. That was really hard cuz I was lonely too. But I also know I had to get up this morning and work (the kids are at their dad's right now). I have to be sure to put the kids first, of course, but I have to put myself up higher on the priority list than I used to. There was a time I'd have cared more about that guy's loneliness than my own need for sleep and sanity.

And as for my ex, well, I guess we'll just see. He had a second job interview with the same company today, so i'm hoping he gets this job. It'd be really good for him; he's excited.

Thanks for the thoughts about how normal it is to continue to love them. I guess it's been difficult to understand for me. When my mom and dad broke up, well, let's just say my mother continues to hate my dad 30 years later. I never saw one ounce of love within either one of them for the other. It amazes me in a bad way.

We're all different. Some of us love so completely that it takes time for it to play itself out...and maybe the love was long over before your mom and dad split. For myself, I loved my ex a long time after he deserved to have me hate him! LOL
I can honestly say that I am now over him completely. You know you're over them when you feel indifferent, the wedding band in your drawer doesn't mean anything to you anymore, it's just a hunk of jewelry. My exfiance, however, it's still killing me, but it's so fresh, I realize that I'll get over him eventually but it'll take time, maybe a couple of years? Who knows, but I'll know when I'm there.
I think it's great that you recognized what YOU need instead of running to fill someone else's wants.

1TS - there is a thread I think you could provide some valuable insight for over in 101. Here

She is stuck in an abusive situation with a man with a drinking problem. Maybe you could provide some insight as to how you made it out.

Vibrissa: Done

Wow. Reading her post really solidified why I'm not wanting to be with my ex!!

I hope she gets out of that.

By the way, he got the job.

I'm glad about it. He said he'll give me a hundred bucks extra child support now.

Anyhow, after much reflection this week, it still stands (and I told him this) that I really am fine on my own. I don't want to be in any relationship at all.

I do still wish we could be a functioning, normal family. But I doubt it's possible. I also don't want to test that in front of the kids. Their stability is truly truly worth everything to me. I don't care if I'm alone for all of eternity as long as these babies can have stability.

Glad to hear that, the children need stability and not the drama and fear brought in, I agree.

God bless TS

Good for you! I know the temptation cuz none of us like having broken homes, but it's better to have two households and stability IMHO for the kids.