new to the site, recommended from a friend.

i guess my story. I found out about my wifes affair 2 months ago after a 30 day deployment. After a long story, the truth came to light, though I suspected it I realize now for quite some time. Married 17 years, have 4 kids. Affair been going on for about 7 months now. I took the kids on holiday, giving my wife time to clear her head. Roller coaster has gone on since then. When she said she couldnt give up the other guy, I pushed for divorce. She wanted legal seperation, basically living in an open marriage so she could "Get her head together".

Well, finally getting to divorce mediation, when the wife found out the process was like 6 weeks, she broke and said she cant do this and wants help. mediator was also a reconciler and went into that mode. Just when I was at peace with divorce, got thrown back into unsure mode. I want my marriage, but anyway, that lasted about a week. I caught her in a lie before our first joint resolution session and we were back on for divorce.

After a talk the night before we had to see a movie on divorce and kids, my wife realized she is not the same person she was many months back, and started looking at possible medical issues. The next day before our movie, she asked if we could stop to talk, and said she really wants to do this now. She called all her friends, family, a doctor, and made arrangements to go to her moms to get clear from the affair fog. She took me to the appartment she was scheduled to move into and closed it, losing the security deposit. She took me to her bank, closed it, and put the money in our joint account. Basically anything she could do to get an out, she did. Since then, some of the urgency has left her. I know she is depressed, from leaving the other man, and I get that. I allow that even that she did/does love the guy.

The whole, I love her dearly, her love died for me years ago thing is in play. Cant get her to say she loves me, except the one day before the movie when she said she was determined to make this work. Determination will come and go I guess.

So here, I have doubts the last 2 days. Wondering same others have had, about living a loveless marriage. Will the affair fog leave and we can recapture some of it? Her claim its been dead for years, I dont buy. Sure it was not great, and I acknowledge my weaknesses, but where I am ready to work right now, her priorities have backed off. I guess time at her mothers, with some hopefully Christian based counsel can help, and I am prayerful for that, but at the same time, my doubts now, are worrisome to me. I have 4 kids, 3 know most of the details. They also know that now we are working at things.

What do I do when she is depressed, or crying about this love she no longer has? Do I ignore it, console her, etc? I heart for her pain, though I hurt for her lack of true affection for me at the same time.

KJ,

Welcome to MB. Sorry you have to be here.

You ask all the questions we see all too often.

Sounds like she is in withdrawal. Will she come out of it? Yes, IF she is completely no-contact (NC) with the other man. If she stays NC with the OM, then your chances are much better for her fog lifting and her waking up a little better every day. You need to watch for signs that she is secretly calling or emailing him. Spy.


Unfortunately, right now you are in a waiting game. That's the way it is for the betrayed spouse. The BS might have to bear the weight of the work to repair things, and one of the things you can do is look at the Emotional Needs section of this website. One of the reasons married couples become distant is because they stop meeting each other's emotional needs - they lack awareness, or just don't do it. Take a look at the descriptions of EN's , and figure out what you think your wife's top three or five might be. Do little things each day that go toward meeting them.

In the meantime, try to avoid relationship talk unless she brings it up. Tell her that you "don't do divorce", and that you know this can be repaired.

Because it can be repaired.

MB has the roadmap.

It isn't for sissies, and it is going to take you about two years (average) before you feel like things are looking like they might start being more "normal".

When/if she asks you what you think....say, "Wouldn't it be perfect if we could start over, in love with each other, and just create the marriage of our dreams with one another?"

and she will say yes


And you can say, "If you will commit to working with me, there is a way forward for us. Let's keep trying."


When you think she is coming out of the fog, and maybe looks ready, bring her here.


For now, this is YOUR place.


Begin today. Read Emotional Needs. Start meeting hers. You can worry about yours later.

And every day - look good, smell good, be good. No angry outbursts, no disrespectful judgements (read about those here too!), and avoid divorce talk.

Come here for advice, and for venting.

DO NOT VENT TO HER. DO NOT VENT TO HER.

Oh.

forgot to mention.

Do not vent to her.


Everything you say to her is positive about the idea that you can save your marriage, that you want to save your marriage, and that there is hope for her love for you to return.

It is completely and totally possible.


She can fall in love again.


So...can you.


SB

Hi Jim, Welcome to Marriage Builders. Sorry you are here. This program is one of the few programs that can restore romantic love if you follow it strictly. Many of us here have fully recovered passionate marriages. I will link some key articles for you. The book you need to get is Surviving an Affair by Dr Willard Harley. The program we followed is outlined in there.

How To Survive Infidelity

How to Create Your Own Plan to Resolve Conflicts and Restore Love to Your Marriage

Can't We Just Forgive and Forget?

Klondike. Sorry for your pain. Been there, felt it. I know how bad it hurts and how hard it is on the family. My sincere sympathy to you

That said, I saw a few red flags in your post:

"I allow that even that she did/does love the guy. "

"Her love for me died.."

Klondike, how do you define the word LOVE? How does your wife define the word LOVE? This was THE first thing our counselor had us do (write down our definitions of love) when we reconciled and began counseling. We found out we had very different definitions, but more importantly, neither of us, even after 18 years of marriage (tumultuous marriage, but marriage none the less) knew that love = COMMITMENT.

Love = commitment.

When I say I LOVE YOU, I am saying I am committed to our relationship, and I will hold up MY end of the bargain, and make the necessary sacrifices (**********EDIT***********) on MY end. Because of course I can only control ME, not you.

Now go back and look at your quotes.

When you say she might "love" this guy, are you saying she might love him as in "is committed to him"? I think not. I think what you are saying is that she has deep FEELINGS for him. That is not love. That is chemistry.. in the brain.

Informally it's called LUST (the craving for sexual/emotional gratification). Clinically it's a condition driven by androgens and estrogens that shoot off when we are ATTRACTED to things. This lustful condition is characterized by euphoria when things are going well, terrible mood swings when they�re not, focused attention, obsessive thinking, and intense cravings for a person, driven by high dopamine and norepinephrine levels

Lust.

LOVE on the other hand is committed ATTACHMENT characterized by a sense of calm, peace, and stability one feels with a long-term partner as the result of mutual sacrifice (yep I used the word again, hopefully it won't get me banned here!) and shared commitment.

So my questions for you:

1. Do you and your wife even know and agree on the definition of LOVE? If not, I urge you to both write down your definitions and compare them. Message them to me.

2. After reading what I wrote about love vs. lust, do you think your wife REALLY ***LOVES *** this other man?

3. After reading what I wrote about love vs. lust, do you think your wife stopped "loving" you? Or do you think maybe your love bank was low on equity from neglect on both your parts?

I'd love to speak with you more on these topics. I have been where you are right now.

God bless you both and your children,

m

The Dr. Harley Gestapo? Really?

You are here on Dr. Harley's website where we use his program to help people.

Courtesy isn't your strong point is it.

We have yet to hear your story. Seems presumptuous to use someone else's website, someone with a track record as good as Dr. Harley's, to give out your own personal advice while insulting the person who owns the place and not telling anyone what your deal is.

You know, using the word Gestapo is highly inflammatory and not something I would imagine being used by such a good Christian as you seem to want us to believe you are.

Hey, MountainClimber,

I asked you a couple of questions over here. Please chime in, dude.

Should have read the no venting thing last night. Bad night. She asked to "Go out with the girls" after work (she closes as it is) and was not home until 5 am. I told her, finis, once she got here. She said you cant just toss me away. I said, you cant expect trust when you been away from the source for 5 days. She was to go out of town to her folks Sunday, not sure that is going to happen now. I think I can repair last nights talk, when she wakes, but honestly not sure I want too now. Oh, I am a bit confused. I love my wife, but just dont get it. How a mother, woman that was home every day of our marriage, suddenly is in Highschool and thinks that its ok to just go galavanting around. Thats not a marriage I want to have now. I want the same stable relationship we had. Our kids need that.

Jim, your wife is not in the least serious about recovery. I fear you have lowered the bar so low that she is just living down to your standards. I have no idea why she halted the divorce, but it was probably not a good idea for you to agree to halt it with absolutely no plan on the table. There is no plan here, nothing.

I would go to her with an offer. Tell her you are only willing to stay in this marriage if she commits to a plan of recovery and agrees to affair proof the marriage. That means no nights out without each other, no opposite sex friendships, complete transparency, [cell phone passwords, computer passwords, knowledge of each others whereabouts at all times, etc] dumping any "friends" who enabled her affair, etc.

She would have to agree to go through the Marriage Builders program.

She will probably say "you are trying to control me!! Imprison me!!"

You: oh no, I would never do that! This is completely voluntary. You can accept or reject it. This is what it will take to recover our marriage and this is what it will take to interest me in trying. Otherwise, this will never work.

If she does not agree to this, then you have no marriage anyway and should separate and get divorced.

For your wife to do this to you after the hell she has put you through tells me she is profoundly destructive and thoughtless. You have nothing to lose by setting standards.

Raise the bar very high, Jim. You and your kids deserve it. Your kids need you to protect them from her.

YOU can repair last night's talk???

SHE needs to repair it and MUCH MUCH more.

Listen to Mel.

If you don't set the bar high for her, she will continue her shameful behavior until you HATE her. Then recovering your marriage won't be an option.

Agree with Marsh!

Well, thats how this all began. She chose the transparency, she canceled her appartment she was moving into, she closed her account, and put the money into our joint account, She called her family, and said she needed help getting through this. She called a MD to try to find out why or what could be causing medically her drastic shifts. It has just waffled since then. This 2 week period at her moms was supposed to be a seperation she needed, with counseling of family there that could help her through this. Her actions last night were "because all I want to do is talk, and she needed a break" Of course it all got turned around onto me during the talk. I agree with you though Mel. I am waiting until she is on the plane in the evening tomorrow. See how that goes for her "Clarity" I have road this train too damn long though, waiting up for all nighters, having to lie to the kids about where she is the next day. When she is back, we have a counseler (the same one that was supposed to me my mediator for divorce) and I expect she will set some of the same affair proofing steps. I know I will expect nothing less. The toughest pill to swallow at this point, is the "I dont love you the same as I did" issue. It kills me worse than the affair. I pray its just the affair fog, but if it isnt, and our marriage has been as dead as she portrays for so long, then I will not live in a loveless marriage.

Well, the wife is with her family for 2 weeks, hopefully for getting the affair fog cleared some, as well as finding her faith again. Hopeful for that happening. I am going to try 0 contact with her while there. I have to be ready for "the shoe to drop" if when she gets back she has not got the clarity she and I hope for. I just cant continue to let her run rough shod over me. I want my marriage to work, honestly, but I am just feeling so much negativity in this process that I am almost longing for divorce. Silly, I know, I love my wife and cant see a life without her, and yet, I want divorce so I can end the roller coaster. Trying to Let God do his thing this next 2 weeks. just hard to keep positive, when I anticpate the conversation coming if this next 2 weeks ends up not being the "In HIS time" fix to this marrital mess. Any help on how NOT to focus on her this next 2 weeks? I want to call her even now. For any stupid reason. Nothing I used to enjoy, do I enjoy any longer, so hobbies are out of the question. How do you get to the point you enjoy life again? Focusing on the kids, providing, getting them to school, getting them dinner, and cleaning the house like a manic, anything to keep busy, but there just seems too much time in the day.

All you can right now is to go DARK and do not try to contact your wife, is she wants to communicate tell her that you can't right now and give her a plan B letter. Wheels did that to me, I wanted to communicate while I was at my sisters for a couple weeks to get things straight in my head. Wheels thought it best to end contact with me during that time to help HIM heal, so let her know that.

Good luck

Thats kind of the problem. We never did the letter, as she did most steps on her own. We never got to sit down and talk about what assurances I would need. Hence, her reasoning that I should be ok with her going out with her girl friends. After that arguement, we had basically 2 days of no contact and now she is out of town. She said me "mentioning divorce again" gave her alot of doubts again, thanks alot. Well, now I am not sure what she is getting out of her trip home, if it is working on herself, trying to end the affair permanently in her mind rather than just the steps she chose so far, or what. I am determined, divorce if she is not willing to sit and actually come up with what 0 contact means, and more importantly, that we work on us. No more vacilitating. I guess thats my biggest issue right now, I am more concentrating on divorce, than hoping that something productive happens while she is away. I want to talk, talk on the phone so I can know her thoughts, but I know I cant. I am a "Closure" type individual to begin with, and getting Divorce back in my mind set, I am leaning to closure that way, although I know there is still hope. Confusing I know,

You can still do a plan B letter, my husband didn't give me the letter until two day's AFTER I had left! So there is no excuse there to not give her a plan B letter.

Plan B is for you to focus on YOU, nothing ELSE! Not the marriage, not your wife, JUST YOU!

Just let her be for these next two weeks, when she comes back and say's she wants a divorce then you can start making those steps to end the marriage, but right now let her be, don't talk to her, don't wonder what she is thinking, don't wonder if she is getting help.

Give her an idea how her life will be like when you are not in the picture anymore.

Start taking care of YOU!

Well, day 2 of Going Dark. Semi dark. Sort of hard, as I had to get Skype going for the kids, and answer a couple texts to deal with kid issues. Old wife was super mom, and would leave notes on my youngests bed if she went somewhere. Well, she FB'd me one for me to print for my youngest. Very creative note, and I did text her to just say, your creative, and a great mom.

Thats what gets me. Little peaks of the old woman still there. Vacilating between the divorce board, and this one. Schtoop had a story so similar to mine it was scarey. I am sure there are thousands though. Had some prayer and quiet time this morning, trying still to give it to God, but for some reason, I seem more at peace with divorce than resolution at this point. Do I want to save this marriage? My goodness I dont know. Trying to focus on me. starting to eat again, though determined not to put weight back on. Am almost at highschool weight due to this roller coaster, and loving it.

I did talk to my sister in law. She is concerned, as wife does seem lifeless, in her words. Not the spark she once had. I know she is emotionally drained as I am with her affair fog. Anyway, I said, I dont expect you to relay all confidence, but at the end of this 2 weeks, just let me know if its worth me fighting for this, or if the impression is my wife is in this only for the kids, and not for some semblance of love in our marriage. Sister in law and wife going to San Diego for 2 days. SIL plans on some major God intervention. Hoping that great things occur. God is good.

Read some John this AM. Walking on the water chapter. Lord Help Me, as he began to sink. Thats the analogy I am holding on too today. Continually saying, Lord help Me, as I reach for Christ. I do know I cant decide on my own, the Lord must lead me to the fact that I tried hard enough, or not enough. 70 times 70 is the number of times I should forgive. Forgiving is different from allowing her destructive patterns to bring me down though. That is what I am working through.

Day 2, one day at a time.

If I were you, I would sack up. Create a list of rules with the help of the people here that you need in order to continue in the marriage. Counseling with the Harley's, no going out late at night without you, complete transparency, access to all cell phone, email, passwords, a joint facebook account with you instead of her own private one, etc. You give her a letter with that list on it, and let her know it's that way or the highway. Then, once she realizes that she can't negotiate with you for how SHE wants to continue in the marriage, she'll break down and agree to do them (although reluctantly). You need to get tough and firm with her, and not be afraid to play chicken with this divorce. If she won't agree to your conditions, then this isn't a marriage you will want anyway. She needs to realize that YOU are now in control of this marriage, not her, and if you are ready to dump her and move on, she'll realize she has no choice but to accept your conditions. Now, your marriage can improve once she's accepted those conditions, she's gotten through withdrawal, and you have made some love bank deposits.

How did your WW meet OM, and what is being done to prevent contact?

If you're in Plan B - you must be completely dark. This:


Just gives her a husband and family fix. It prolongs your situation.

Plan B can take YEARS. I believe Queenie was in Plan B for two years - before her husband came back to her.

Stay dark.

Read Scotland's thread - she is the Master of Plan B.

There is no need for you to interact with your wife at all.

Well as I am sure you all know, things change constantly with this process. Moved to the Divorce board, as I got a lawyer and pushed hard for divorce. At same time, (wife was visiting parents for 2 weeks out of state) i did a modified plan b letter to MIL. Well, zero contact, and lawyer talk got wife to clarity in only a few days. We have talked alot and she made many steps immediately, again ending A, She is ready to accept her responsibility and I believe her. When she returns we are going to proceed with counseling. I hope to get her here, and accept MB. I did purchase Love Busters and HnHn and began reading them yesterday. Hope she will read them as well, though, opening chapters of both books talk alot about infadelity, of course, and it makes me sick to my stomach when I read it. Wife will likely see simlar feelings I would think. Almost as if they are triggers, they express so accurately the feelings with an affair.

Anyway, hopeful of a way forward. She did alot towards NC. I told her, I or my MIL need to listen on the phone when she send the final message. She elected to write a email, MIL read it, then she emailed it to OM email. MIL then called OM and said check his mail. Following, they immediately changed the Cell number, canceled the email account, and deleted contacts, etc. Few other items she elected to do of her own. Seeing that as a very positive sign. Hope again, scarey to have hope, as it seems it crashes each time I let it, but cant be in with one foot.

I understand those feelings of hopelessness. It aches at your core, but they will pass whichever way your marriage goes.

Keep the bar high and do your part, God will do His.

God Bless