You resent giving it up, and he resents the time that quiet reflective "me" time. Can you see how giving it up or doing it the old way would ultimately cause problems again? The sacrificing one of you would have to do, I mean.

Could you brainstorm on what it would TAKE for him not to resent that time, and/or what it would take for YOU to not resent giving it up?

One idea: work on your jewelry AND chat with H at the same time? You'd be giving up some of the private time he resents while filling your need to work on it.

Or, is there something he could enjoy doing in close proximity to where you're working?

What about getting him more involved in the marketing? Could he be working on that in cyberspace near you while you're making the jewelry? Conversing back and forth about it while you both work different aspects of it?

Just a few thoughts off the top of my head. Now YOU TWO start brainstorming!

Rightthere,

We have decided to POJA.

Since this was a pressing issue for us (I wanted him to understand why I was trying to give it up, and he did not want me to stop) I ended up writing a thread on SAA. We had a lot of feedback, and WH even got online to post his point of view. The main consensus was to find a way without either of us sacrificing.

He does not resent the creation time, he resented the marketing time. So we are currently defining the boundaries on this issue. Hopefully soon we can sit down and make a plan on this. I told him I refuse to start anything new until we do that.

Not much new to update. H and I have been planning DS's 2nd b-day party that is coming up in 2 weeks.

We have also been planning a getaway for my b-day next year. Since he was involved with POSOW on my b-day, even took DS to see her on that day, I know it will not be a good day for me. So instead of waiting for it to happen, we have decided to do a preemptive strike and plan to be out of town for my b-day next year.

H wants to take me to Disney since that is someplace I want to go but never have. Failing to be able to fund that trip, we are looking at a get-a-way in the mountains. That is where we went for our "RECOVERY" vacation, and we had alot of fun. So I don't think that would be a bad idea either.

I am working on identifying triggers and dealing with triggers. Although I am still having issues not checking up on POSOW to make sure she is out of our lives. I do know that the intensity has lessened. The feeling is still there, but it is not all encompassing.

Anyone have any ideas for removing her car as a trigger? Many times when I see a red sedan I want to go ballistic. I am trying to move past, but there is still a big part of me that wants to lash out at her.

Will it help my M. No.

But I feel so helpless. I am so sick of the fact she gets to go on with her life like nothing happened, but I have to pick up the pieces and try to glue them back together.

I am also angry because I feel like I failed to protect my son. I did not see this threat, and his father almost left because it. I did not see H as the A type. He was always that sweet guy who actually gave a #$#@ about his family. So I was completely blindsided by this. I shouldn't have been. But I was. So now I feel loads of guilt for not seeing the signs.

Eluna,

Glad that you are taking a pre-emptive strike at the trigger of your birthday. My D-Day was the day after my birthday (and 3 days before our anniversary), so I know the pain of those trigger dates.

Good on you, too, for fighting the urge to check up on OW. Giving her room in your head is painful to you, and detrimental to recovery. I'll be the first to admit it's very hard to let go of the anger and the fear associated with that one miserable human being, but the truth is, if it hadn't been her, it would've been someone else. When a spouse doesn't have boundaries, and builds up unvoiced resentment and entitlement, it's inevitable that something bad is gonna happen. She just happened to be there when your H let himself get to that place.

As for the ever-present trigger of OW's car...that's a really tough one, and it took me many moons to find something that helped me. I turned it around and finally realized one day that SHE was suffering the same
trigger effect of seeing my FWH's car, or MINE. (She was "in love" with him, and when he broke it off, I was lucky enough to see her one day--at Christmas time! She looked as ragged and miserable as I did after D-Day. I took great satisfaction in knowing SHE hurt too--although it could never equal the depths of my pain of being betrayed after 37 years of M.) So take heart that she is probably paying, at least a bit, for her folly.

And remember, as painful as it is to "pick up the pieces," at least you HAVE the pieces to pick up! She has nothing. Certainly not the man she set her sights on. Vow to live well with your reformed H, in a more conscious M than you had before. Isn't living well the best revenge?

And stop beating yourself up for not seeing your H's affair coming!!! Do you think ANY of us saw it coming? We were ALL sucker-punched and sent reeling. It wasn't our fault! Who is a mind reader? Who anticipates their beloved will destroy them? NOBODY! Wouldn't have married them if we could've seen that coming. We mourn our naivete. A part of really growing up, I think. Painful, but necessary for us to do, under the circumstances, don't you think?

RHW

I have spent alot of time over the past few months being angry because I could not lash out at POSOW for the pain she has caused in my life. I have consistently been told that the Karma bus will eventually catch up with her, but in my anger I have not been able to focus on that. Instead I have focused on the fact she moved on (to my relief, and dismay since that means she is not suffering.) As much as I have wanted to walk away, I have found it hard to do so, and have at times given in on the need to make sure she is staying away from my husband.

I have been almost jealous of the fact that she has started a new relationship since the NC letter on the 29th of May. Then I figured out last week that POSOW's new victim has moved in with her. And I also saw a reference joking about getting preggers that she posted on FB to her new victim.

Although I have suffered knowing this information, until recently I could not see how Karma may bite her, and felt like I had to wait and watch to ensure it would happen.


While I was watching "The Ugly Truth" this weekend with H, something dawned on me.....

In less than 2 months of dating this guy, POSOW has had him move in with her and is now pressing the idea of pregnancy with him. This is the same MO that husband had described of her behavior with him, pushing things WAY too fast. So why does this make a difference?

I realized that this is the type of behavior that 99% of the population view as desperate. That eventually she will drive off every partner she has with this desperation, because no one really finds that behavior attractive. We have even discussed on the forums about how that behavior can suffocate a partner into fleeing during plan A.

So now that I can clearly see Karma at work, setting her up for one epic fail after another, for the first time since D-day I feel a sense of calm and justice. I finally feel like I can let go of that part that needs revenge on her, something I have fought against for months. I can finally see the path of justice and can leave it to the Universe.

I finally feel like I can breath.

Thanks for listening.

Back in May I asked WH to write me a letter explaining the things he loves/admires/likes about me.

I asked this for several reasons. (This was before the NC letter was sent, although there had been no contact between POSOW and WH at that time.)
1. To remind him of the things he loves about me.
2. To give me an anti-trigger
3. To give me something tangible to hold onto during the dark days
4. To show me that he really sees me and not the FOG persona he thought I was

WH had started working on this, but never got around to finishing it. I know he had started because during my snooping I ran across a rough draft. Once I realized what it was I stopped reading hoping he would soon finish it and send it to me.

Over the past few days I have asked him why he loves me. I have been having more dark days (I can almost pin point when in the month I will start feeling this way now)

He got upset with me because I ask the same question again and again.

I told him that for me the trauma is still fresh in my heart and mind. And that many times that pain clouds my thoughts so when I am feeling suffocated by the pain, I ask. I am looking for something to counteract the pain at that point.

Then I explained that was one of the reasons I asked for the letter early on, so I would have something to look back on during the rough times.

He said that he understands and plans to work on it now during his lunch period today.

I am hoping he will, but deep inside I feel like I am going to be disappointed again. Part of me just wants to give up the thought of this letter, but I realize that would amount to me settling for crumbs so I can't.

Like most couples with toddlers, we struggle to achieve the UA time needed. I must say last night however we got basically 6 hours of UA time. However it was not the "FUN" UA time we all need.

My H had a kidney stone attack last night. So I ended up finding someone to look after DS while I took H to the ER. We essentially sat in the ER waiting area for almost 6 straight hours with no sleep. Finally got a diagnoses (yes kidney stones) about 6 am this morning.

I know that the act of me staying with him waiting in the ER did some major deposits. But I could not help wondering, what things would have looked like for him had he left us for POSOW in
March.

This thought made me angry. Part of me was angry at the thought of him suffering alone. But part of me was a little resentful that I was fulfilling my role as his wife, being there when he needed me. But I was doing this for a man that did not have enough consideration for me to let me know that he was feeling neglected in our M.

I gave up my sleep, sent my DS to stay away from home, spent hours worrying over my H, drove him to the ER and stayed with him all night, plus had to endure 3 re-playings of "College Road Trip" (they had this playing on the TV in the waiting room).

Would POSOW had done the same? Would she have drug her son to the ER in the middle of the night because my H was having a kidney stone that would pass? Would she have given up her nice warm bed to spend the entire night in a waiting room, just to go home and have DS keep her up all morning without sleep?

I asked him what he thought things would have looked like now had he left us back in March. He said he imagines he would have been in the ER waiting by himself.

This is the type of OW he chose to meet his needs on the side? After having these type of thoughts, I finally said, for the first time outloud, that the A really hurt me. I need things to get better, but have little doubt it will get harder before it gets better. I have never resented staying at the ER with him before (this was not his first kidney stone), but now I do. It is an uncomfortable feeling for me.

Well this weekend was pretty much a complete bust for any fun UA time.

We tried to recover Saturday from the overnight trip to the hospital. Hard to do when you have a 2 year old that is roaring to go and has no real concept of Mom and Dad need sleep.

On top of trying to recover, now DS has gotten sick with a head cold. So of course both of us decided to look after DS's needs.

I realized this morning though, that am starting to feel withdrawn from WH again. I understand that this is probably a result of having no US time over the weekend. But I still feel very anxious over this.

I feel like I am talking to myself a bit this week.

DS has come down with a very nasty cold, bad enough that I had to take him to the DR yesterday for an emergency albuterol treatment. They sent home a nebulizer and a script for more albuterol.

Since I have been so concerned with DS health, he has been sleeping in our room so I can monitor his breathing. This has of course affected any one on one time that WH and I get. So now I am feeling withdrawn.

I been having some conversations with WH that have left me abit off kilter. Last night he reminded me that he has an eye appointment this afternoon. I asked if he was planning on going back to work after the appt. He said no. This left me panicking, because my first thought was of the time he spent off work and would go see OW.

He assured me that he is coming home right after the appt. I asked him how I was suppose to know that. At this point he seemed to start getting upset that I will not take his word. But he did say he would leave the GPS on his phone hooked up so I could monitor his location.

I guess what bothers me is that WH seems to be expecting me to start taking his word already. We have not even begun to work on the trust issues. I am not even close to being able to take him at his word. I told him I wish he could stand in my shoes and understand the pain and uncertainty I felt. That each time he changed something in our normal routine, it throws me for a giant panic attack.

What steps are needed in recovery before you were able to begin taking WS at their word? How long into recovery before one should begin to look at trusting (although not completely) again?

Ok still talking to myself I guess.

I told WH last night that I have no idea how to rebuild our friendship, but we both realized that we need to be friends before we can really go on.

I told him that I don't even know what we have in common any more and that I am completely lost on how to rebuild. I also told him that I had felt resentful on Friday night. I let him read the post above dealing with my resentment so that he may understand my thought process. I still don't know if he got it.

Is he following EPs? Yes
ENs: I think he is trying, but I have a hard time admitting my needs since I am the type to try to take care of everyone else before I worry about myself.

WH and I had planned to sit down with "5 steps to Romantic Love" on Friday night, but then the hospital trip happened. Now I am in a rush to get everything finished for tomorrow: DS's 2nd birthday.


How do you rebuild when you see nothing in common anymore?

Um, Eluna, can you see where you're causing some of your own problem here? How can your H meet your needs if you're so busy taking care of everyone else that you haven't focused on figuring out what they ARE? Or worse, not being HONEST about what those needs are?

What will have attending to everyone's else's needs, or not being honest with your H about what your needs are, benefit you if your marriage falls apart? Think about this: Is it possible that "tending to everyone else's needs" and not telling each other what you needed played a role in making your M vulnerable to an affair?



The trick here is to do the examination of ENs and LBs--both of you, get cracking on meeting the ENs and eliminating all LBs and spend that all-important 15 hours a week meeting the four most intimate needs...Affection, Conversation, Recreational Companionship and Sexual Fulfillment.

Guaranteed, you'll become more than friends.

DS's b-day party went off well. We all enjoyed ourselves, and both WH and I got alot of joy out of watching our little boy experience turning two and being the center of attention.

A couple of problems that are arising (again)....

I am tending to get online whenever I feel like WH is ignoring me. He is getting upset with me because he feels like I am spending too much time online. So I get offline, and end up falling asleep on WH. Only to wake up with him playing video games online......

This is a vicious circle. I realize the best thing to do is to put the laptop away when we get home. However, I am afraid to do this because I fear that WH will be upset that I have "taken away" his video games.

And yes I have tried leaving it put up when I get home. Only to find him online as soon as I nap. Grrr......

The other thing that has arisen this weekend is that WH is upset because I have NO trust in him. Well Duh!

He seems to expect that I should begin trusting him now, since everything is settling down. I explained it to him this way.....

He is currently in conflict with bio-dad. I told him that my loss of trust with him equates to the earth shattering feeling he would have if he took a DNA test only to find out the man he had been told was his bio-dad really was not.

I told him that everything I had thought, believed, and cherished about our M, had been completely shattered in one quick and thoughtless action. That rebuilding trust after something like that was not a quick process. That there is a good chance I will never trust him again, and that is one of the consequences of his decisions.

Ditto for me in reverse. I tend to frequent this board only when I'm not feeling as close to FWW as I would like to be. Bored, frustrated, tired, needing to vent... these are all typically aspects of not spending enough UA time together.


The solution: Follow Dr. Harley's advice and SCHEDULE your Undivided Attention time. The TV is off... unless the two of you are using the noise to disguise your lovemaking from your kids. You must have a bare minimum of 15 hours per week, more like 20+ hours per week if you're recovering from an affair. This time is to be spent meeting the four Intimate Emotional Needs:
1. Intimate Conversation
2. Affection
3. Recreational Companionship
4. Sexual Fulfillment

Two hours a night every night, with a longer time on weekends, is typically what it requires. Our time is 8:30 to 10:30 every night, and when we skimp on that, our Love Bank balances fall. Just being married to one another and being around one another is going to result in constant small Love Bank withdrawals. Fill those up every day with a steady stream of UA time.


My explanation is something like this:

"You have a Trust Bank balance in my heart separate from your Love Bank balance. I can be in a state of Intimacy with you, love you dearly, and desperately want to make you happy, yet still distrust you. Like a Love Bank balance, it's impossible for me to make deposits into your Trust Bank balance. You are completely in control of how much I trust you. Trust will only come as you steadily, daily do things to cause me to trust you, and avoid doing things that cause me to distrust you. When your actions are consistent with your words, you make a deposit. When they are inconsistent, you make a withdrawal. Make enough deposits long enough and my trust in you will grow. However, my trust will never be blind again. I will verify from time to time that your actions are consistent with your words; when I find that they are consistent, you'll have made a Trust Bank deposit without even knowing it!"


Your final two paragraphs are DJ's. Avoid this sort of analogy. Rather than trying to explain why you're hurt, or why you can't trust, explain what you need to ease the hurt and to rebuild trust. Have a relentless focus on discussing solutions you're enthusiastic about, and pointedly avoiding Love Busters of this sort. I'm certain you made him feel horrible by telling him this, and that withdraws Love Units. Refrain from this, and instead focus on what you'd rather he do instead.

Dr. Harley has an entire chapter in "Love Busters" devoted to eliminating Annoying Habits like FWS playing computer games every time you're not looking. You'll need his buy-in to stop it together, but I'm certain you can succeed by following the process Dr. Harley outlines for breaking Annoying Habits together. Be a team, though, and remember you're trying to fix this together; it's not you vs. your spouse!

I have finally begun to see why I am stuck at this point in recovery. I have the same questions rolling around in my head that I have had for over 2 months now. Up until this week, I have not understood why I have been unable to move past these questions.

During MC this week, I decided to detach a bit a just listen to WH as he described the events of the past few weeks. What I realized is that WH is still in "I" mode. He spent 20 minutes talking about his job and how the current events at his work are affecting him. I realized over the past 3 weeks, we have spent 90% of our UA time dealing with his job.

After realizing this, and recognizing we need to get back on track in trying to heal our M, I started going back over the questions in my head with WH. His response was "I have already answered those questions and I don't want to deal with them anymore."

So I now understand that part of the reason I am stuck is that WH is still focusing on his desires, instead of working to heal our M. The reason I do not feel safe, is because I have been sensing that I am still in the background where WH's thoughts are concerned.

I pointed all of this out to WH yesterday. And he has admitted that he has been obsessing over his job and bringing that home with him. He also realized yesterday that he is still being selfish and putting himself before helping me recover from the A. He seems to indicate that this is not what he wants to do. He asked what it will take for me to start feeling safe again, and I told him it is going to take a complete overhaul of the way he prioritizes and thinks about our family.

I think I have been stuck in a similar place as your husband from time to time. The way my wife helps me remember to separate work from home is by saying, "I'd love it if you'd give some clear signal when you're done with work work for the day, and if your work problems stayed at work." She had to repeat it a few times, in context, on different days, for my brain to register what it was she was gently asking by that statement: that I indicate to her when I was done working for the day, and not get upset by work problems when at home.

I have not written in a while,so I will update you on what has been happening.

Last week I called to check up on one of our friends (WH and I) and see how he was doing. While I was on the phone with him, I sensed something that did not feel quite right. I even think he asked me to call him again soon.

When I got home from work, I immediately sat WH down and told him about the conversation and what I was sensing (Possibly asking to be more than friends. This friend is the one I confided in when I found out about WH's A and was looking for a guys POV on the subject. WH knew and approved of me talking to him about the A and its effects on me. We had actually POJAed this at the time)

Anyway I explained to WH that what I was feeling could be nothing more than me being hypersensitive to everything, but regardless it was something he should know about. Thus far we have not decided on a course of action to determine if "friend" was asking for an EA or not....... Either way I will not call or contact friend again without WH there with me.

On other notes, I finally figured out why I felt the need to know why WH chose me over OW. Every time I had asked in the past, he told me what OW had done that made her look bad. It finally dawned on me that was what was bothering me. When I pointed it out to him, he immediately saw what was bothering me and began to tell me why he chose me.....

And the final update...
I realized last night that I am finally getting to the point that I want to walk away from some of the anger I have been carrying around. I contacted our pastor last night and asked him how God views those people that confess their sins, ask for forgiveness, but are not really sorry for their actions. I have been afraid that OW would ask for forgiveness and receive it even though she may not truly be sorry for the damage she helped to inflict.

So maybe this is another step in my path to heal.

That's an interesting take. I'd kind of glossed over it in my mind, but I recall now that when I've asked my wife why she chose me, it was mostly about what the OM had done that made him undesirable. There was some about how I was her husband and he wasn't, how I was the father of her children, and how she loved me and wanted to be with me... but it felt more like she returned to me out of a sense of duty.

Then again, it's fear that ends the affair. Whatever other reasons the wayward gives to justify it, under the hood, it's always fear of something.

That is exactly it, it felt more like he was telling me he chose me because I was there, not because he actually wanted me. This had been holding me back because I felt like if he chose me because she was undesirable, then he did not really choose me so much as the better circumstance. If that was the case, what would really be there to stop him from choosing another circumstance later on.

That was sitting in my subconscious bugging me. I just wish I had been able to bring it to the surface sooner....

I know a lot of the feeling I am having today has to do with hormonal overload, but I have the same questions running through my head. I just wish I could get an answer that would satisfy the why factor of my brain.

I told WH that I wanted to ask, I wanted to get answers, but I did not want to cause him to be upset by asking the same question.

The questions I want to ask are:

"How can you say you love me, when you did not care enough for me to let me know there was a real problem in our M, before you decided to "fix" it with an A?"


I know I am very angry and resentful. I also realize I am making progress, given the fact that 3 months ago at this hormonal stage I wanted to go make POSOW PAY for trying to break up my M.

Someone please tell me it will get better. That eventually the maddening questions will stop and I will be able to move on. Please help me today.

I am sitting here in tears atm. I realized (again) on the way home that my WH is not the first to cheat on me.

So that makes me wonder what it is about me that makes me unworthy of fidelity and faithfulness?