The thought of him NOT in my life is very painful even though I can admit at some deep level that I know that we probably aren't good for each other.
I know that he needs to find a job that has benefits and that his health is an issue. Where he went today to interview for a job I don't know AND I don't know why it is such a secret.
I do know that if I did exactly what he did today he would get mad and probably not speak to me. Why the secrecy? I don't get that.
He has threatened to go a few states away to look for a job and has been in contact with a couple of cousins there that have said they would help him get a job in the industry they are in.
This is also a place where he has said in the past that he would not mind moving to.
The last counselor I went to said that it would be best for me if I was the one that closed the door and walked away but I just haven't been able to do that. I've made strides toward that in the past only to find myself being pulled back into the relationship and ffeelings then begin to surface again.
I am stuck. I can't move forward and I can't move backward. I dont' want to be here and I know I'm the only one that can change that. I'm just scared of making a mistake one way or the other so I don't do anything.

L2S, You need to shut the door.

Is it really secrecy when it isn't your business where he's interviewing? And just because he would get mad if you behaved in a similar manner doesn't mean he's acting wrongly.

One thing I've found out is that relationships have a way of working themselves out. People who are lifers will resurface. In other words, if you end THIS relationship with your ex, and yet you two are very compatible and are supposed to be together, then your paths will cross again.

But someone has to stop this crazy dance. It could be that he will do it. Or it could be you.

Greengables,
You are right. I have no right to know where he is or what he is doing. But, we do this dance. We talk about forgiveness and we talk about what it would take for us to get past the past and rebuild a relationship. So, when he knows where I am and what I am doing, it hurts and makes me wonder when he is not as forthright about his activities.
Right now, he is talking about moving away to take a job with benefits. Now, we've been at this juncture so many times I can't even remember them all. Sadly though there will come a time at some point where we truly are at a crossroads and one of us will choose to go in the opposite direction. One of us will shut the door.
Sitting here now, typing this, I have a huge lump in my throat and my eyes are burning from the tears unshed.
Is there more to life than this?
I really wonder sometimes. I know so many women, seemingly so many more women than men, that divorce and remain single. I don't want to be alone.
I want the man I dated, not even the man I married because he quickly changed and was not at all the man I dated.
So, so confused and torn and frustrated with myself.

There's your trouble, l2s. You remind me of someone struggling to get out of the undertow. It's not easy, to be sure, but once you're on shore you're safe.

Once you're on shore, you can assess this whole business of being "alone." I suspect you don't want to be alone, because you've never been alone.

You might surprise yourself.

opt

I am new to all of this and this might be a naive thought, but it might help to force yourself, make a conscious effort every day to replay in your mind again and again the ugly moments of your relationship. Think of them when you feel weak, when you are with him. Picture his angry face, replay his angry words. Make a decision NOT to replay the nice moments, only the bad ones - the ones when you wanted to be as far from him as possible.

Well, these last couple of weeks have been interesting. I have two jobs (one part-time) and for the part-time job I had to go several states away for a two week school. My XH rode up with me (I drove) and then he flew back.
We got along well and all was good.
During the last couple of weeks he has continually made comments suggesting that I was seeing someone here!! There are 18 in my class and 3 instructors. Everyone is married except me, another female and 1 of the instructors who is engaged.
I have been working like crazy - it's a master's level course. In two weeks I've eaten in my room every day except two. I have hours of reading to do each night or writing assignments.
I feel like the most stupid person in the world. I have wasted so many good years of my life on this man that are forever gone.
I listened as my classmates talked about their kids, their spouses, their lives. Here I sit uncertain and unsettled and I get so angry with ME because I'm the only one that can change it.
He's talking again of moving away to where his cousins are. He really does need a job with benefits - insurance - as he has many health problems.
He has said over the years since our divorce (2007) that we should get married in secret and continue to live our separate lives. There are times I think he's not kidding and that this would answer his problem of insurance. Of course, this is something I would not do.
I've come to the conclusion that I can have him in my life or I can have my family. When he and I are together a lot I lose continuity with my family because I can't take him around them. When I am around them alot I lose continuity with him. They don't want anything to do w/him b/c of all the stuff that they know he did. And, they know a lot b/c of the people he did it around coming back and telling them but I can't tell him that. He continually accuses me of being the person that destroyed his R w/my family because of me running my mouth and b/c of all the lies he told. What he doesn't know is that his own cousin told me and my family much of what happened and w/o him doing so, I probably would never have found out some of what he did. But, I can't tell him that b/c his cousin is married to my niece and I cannot do anything to jeopardize that R. What a mess.

He also has a habit of making comments that I believe are intended to make me feel bad. As an example, my class and instructors went out to eat the other night. This is very common practice with this job. I told him I was going and his comment was" That's good". I wish I could write how he sounded. It wasn't good. It was snide and snippy. If he goes out with a friend or does something with one of his kids, I don't say those kinds of things to him. I think it's good when he gets out and takes time to relax.

I know I'm rambling and I'm talking to myself as much as to any of you. I'm frustrated that I have allowed myself to remain trapped in this odd relationship. I know that I'm the only one that can make the change and pray that I can do so soon. No good will come of this continuing.

What is stopping you from cutting off contact?

Please tell us what you are getting out of all this contact with him?

If he is toxic and from what you posted he is, why would you put your relationship with your family on the line for some one in your life that will and is giving you pain.


He seems to be the only one benefiting with contact with you, you on the other hand sound defeated and unsure of yourself, so why are you continuing contact with him?

Reading your thread right after my ex-husband came to visit me last month helped me to see that if I didn't start making different choices, I would end up years down the road in the same predicament as you - still dangling by the strings that my ex pulls. I couldn't stomach that thought. You have helped me see that my attachment to my husband is toxic and destructive to me because he is ultimately only concerned with himself. I want better for my future and I am willing to let go of this destructive obsession with my fantasy version of the past.

I hope you see it too someday. You are wasting your time and your life with this man.

life2short, this is my first time posting to you.

What I noticed first was your MB name. Think about LIFE 2 SHORT.

I like you still have feelings for my XH. I am in my 50s like you. I have a DD like you that has no relation with her Dad. We are both Christians.

The difference is that I will not settle to just be with XH again. What I want is a wonderful MB M with God. I have learned so much on this board and some of it was painful (have the 2x4's still printed on my backside)

You do not need to accept crumbs and understand this -- as long as you are ready to accept so little that is what you will receive.

Want your M, set the boundaries high. If he talks about getting back together give him a list of what YOU want...

Amends with your family
Complete transparency
Honesty

Set the bar high. If he is the man that God intended you to have he will work hard to meet your ENs. If not then that is your answer.

You are so worried about him leaving you that you have forgotten what YOU want.

My XH is having his Affairage in October, he is unrependant and blames me for all of his troubles. I am trying to detach myself from him and his toxic ways. He has to reach his own bottom.

You started this thread in January and nothing has changed one iota. Only you can change yourself.

Blessings

Greengables,
Nothing is stopping me from no contact except me. I allow myself to remain hooked. I allow myself to get sucked into his drama and, because I do still care, I worry about him and his health issues. He has tried to get insurance but can't find anyone to cover him b/c of preexisting conditions. I know this for a fact b/c I've helped him with it.
Stillstanding2,
Glad I could help someone even if I can't seem to help myself.
Hope3343,
I have to say that he did attempt to make amends w/my sister a couple of years ago. He called her and left a message for her to call him back but she did not. He has made contact w/his cousnin and my niece. He has talked to my brother-in-law a couple of times in passing in stores. They don't want anything to do w/him. They don't believe he has changed and the As are a pattern w/him and they don't think he will ever change. He is now 46.
My DD wants nothing to do w/him. He adopted her when she was 7. Her dad, my first XH, left and never looked back - no contact w/my D. She is much smarter than me!!
You said for him to make amends. Well, how does he do that when the folks that are a priority to me won't listen?
It's a really big mess. I don't want to live like this and don't want the life we had. I do want something better and know I just need to close the door and be content with my life as it is.

So why do you allow yourself to remain hooked?
What keeps you still caring about a man that everyone else you value believes is toxic?

Greengables,
I suppose the biggest reason is because I have no one else in my life. I am often content to be alone, however, I don't want to be alone long term. I also have the need to be loved and to be told that I am loved by someone other than my family. Yes, I know that the love he has shown me is not good, but in a twisted way he still fills that need.
I want a healthy relationship but I am not healthy myself.
He is not totally to blame for everything that went wrong w/our marriage. I had my part to play as well yet I don't accept his premise that he did what he did b/c of things I did. If that is true, then the affairs are all my fault - I drove him to it.
I know that I need to detach myself, shut the door, deadbolt it and nail it shut. I just am having a really hard time doing that.
I think maybe I would not have as hard a time as I am having if I did have someone else though others have commented that no one else will come near me as long as I am unavailable - still talking to XH.

L2S, Maybe instead of filling your life with a man, you could fill it with friends for a while. Friends are really important. It's true, you can't have sex with them, and you don't get family committment from them, but otherwise, they can do everything a boyfriend can. Conversation, admiration, recreation, openess and honesty. Plus, they help fill time.

You need someone you can pick up and call when you're sad or lonely, or happy or excited. Actually, you need a bunch of someone's since they all have lives too.

I'm trying to re-establish some old female friendships. Going out to lunch next week. Need to reconnect with family.
XH has gone away to supposedly look for job in another state. He also is going to do some work at his cousin's house while there so not sure if the intent of the visit was one or the other or both.
Last night in church one of the things said was that God has so much better in store for us than we can imagine but sometimes we have to let go of what is in our hand in order to have the better. Easy to say - hard to do.
I'm really in turmoil right now. I haven't ever wanted to go back home yet I can't get past losing him. Then, I think, but what have I really lost?
I struggle with myself and my thoughts constantly.

"yet I can't get past losing him" you posted,

What exactly did he bring to your relationship?


Why do you think he is the only man that can give that to you?


Are you holding on to him because he is a safe bet (the whole know your enemy) and you are afraid of letting some one else in that might hurt you again?

swan's song:
What exactly did he bring to your relationship?
When we first started dating, he brought love and affection and affirmation. After that......... pain, frustration, hurt and fear.

Why do you think he is the only man that can give that to you?
I hope there is someone out there that can show me that love doesn't have to include pain, frustration, hurt and fear.

Are you holding on to him because he is a safe bet (the whole know your enemy) and you are afraid of letting some one else in that might hurt you again?
A great big YES. I'm holding on to what I know. He knows all the junk about me that I don't want to have to share with someone else. I opened myself up to him in ways I have to no one else and I regreted it deeply. He used the knowledge of my past hurts as weapons in future fights and discussions and he used them to inflict more pain and fear. He threatened to tell some of my past to others as a way to keep me in line.

Geez, I sure must sound like a pathetic loser to so many of you reading this. I can accurately verbalize who and what he is yet I can't seem to leave him alone and move on with my life.

Two, it's the FIRST sentence above that is keeping you in the relationship, not the second. I can imagine that was one of the lies he has persuaded you to believe.

You are NOT a pathetic loser, L2S. You're not a pathetic anything. You're thinking of jumping out of a plane and it's a long ways down. You're scared, that's normal. It's not pathetic.

Trust yourself. Your chute will be there when you need it.

opt

I suppose to an extent I do feel like a loser. This is my second marriage/divorce and I can't help but wonder why I seem to attract the wrong ones. What is it that I do that attracts men that aren't good for me?
I really, really, REALLY thought that this one was THE one. In church, we liked so many of the same things, we had so many similar goals - or so I thought.
There were warning flags though that I ignored because I was lonely and infatuated. Little did I know that those red flags were so huge and would bite me in the behind.
And now, I can't seem to walk away. We divorced, I bought a house but that's as far as I have gotten. Maybe the best thing would be for him to move away. If I can't break the cycle, him moving would force me to.

I thought my second husband was the one too. I completely understand how disappointed you are. The facts are the facts though. I ignored warning signs also - because I thought (convinced myself) that he was the ONE. I was lonely and infatuated also. I had a hard time walking away emotionally also - even after he left the COUNTRY! His moving won't force you to let go. You have to do that on your own - in your own heart. I prayed for help. I saw your thread. I prayed some more. I moved to a new town. I prayed some more. I stopped calling him. More prayer for help. I stopped emailing him. It got easier. Prayer gave me peace. I met people IRL and online that had similar experiences. Everyday is a little easier. When I want to call or email him, I call or email a friend - somebody that REALLY loves and cares for me. The urge passes if you replace your ex with other people.

Choose to live in the present. Accept reality. It is up to you. You can do this. One minute, hour, and day at a time - you can do this. Your life is formed by the choices that you make. Choose wisely.