Today, with my appointment, the main focus was to be planting seeds. The seeds that feelings do change and that when we got married, she did not expect her feelings to change. Therefore, now, although she expects her current feelings not to change, they can. Divorce is an option, but there are other things to research before divorce is the direction Dr. Harley is suggesting...to my wife...whom is not listening of course.

I did try to engage her in that conversation today...she 'agreed' that she did not think her feelings would change when we got married. I tried to tell her how we could not trust our emotions to make decisions for us. Just a seed.

Tis all I can do....for now I think.

Well, here is the new stuff. No changes in her behavior besides that she talks less. She is moving soon...her mom purchased a rental house and she will be moving in there. Her mom thinks that 'time apart' will be good...give us both time to heal. I want her to move and experience reality. Her mom is not going to pay for anything she says..nor can she afford to honestly.....wife will have to pay all and on her part time job, just not going to be comfortable or even possible.

I am on a constant roller coaster. Spend lots of time with my daughter which I love. However, it is tough to see my wife behaving in such a distant different way of the woman I fell in love with. I am convinced that OM is still in the picture and they are probably still talking....at least if she moves, they won't do it from 'our' house. OM lives three hours away so visits will be seldom, but still enough to make me sick.

Just sit and wait..as she moves...or is it Plan B? I believe it is...we won't need to talk - I have already made it clear that all finances will be separate the day she moves (I will cancel car insurance on the vehicle she wants to drive and ask for our joint credit card back - that is all we share). From that moment until she wants to work on our marriage, she can live on her own since this is what she wants.

Am I doing correctly? Advice, tips?

make sure that her name is also off the account with your bank having a warning about her so that she can't just call and say that she lost her card and end up hitting your account hard.

When she moves out, I would get an intermediary and go to plan B about 1 week after she moves.

Well, tonight is her 'official' first night in her new place. She has not moved stuff in yet from our house, but plans to do that sunday.

I put baby to bed tonight...she wanted water (she is 2.5 years old) so I went to the kitchen to get some for her...when I came back, the lights were still off so I asked her if she was still in bed and she said 'yes, I prayed.' Amazing..that just made me feel great as I have been teaching her this for the past week or so.

Anyway, I thought I would feel really crappy tonight...and I am doing ok. I guess the past 4.5 months of coming home to a 'wife hanging out in the other room' took some of the pain away from tonight.

She gave me an offer from her attorney last week...and we talked about it monday. Overall, a great deal for me..if I wanted a divorce of course.

The sick part of all this - her mom built a house attached to ours last year...guess what, she is staying. So, my wife thinks it is a great idea for me to live next to my ex-mother in law? I like the lady, but my goodness.......

So, what can I expect for the next few weeks? When we had the conversation on monday about divorce, I told her that I wanted some time to think...and would like to talk about it again after she has been in her new place for some time. She got SO angry at how "i get everything I want and this is an example of that" and that 'she didn't want to drag this out until october.'

Yesterday, she had a few drinks in the afternoon (she was quite fun actually) and we talked during dinner. Her lies are just compounding on top of each other..she contradicts herself so much these days. Does she realize this or is this just wayward - type talking and they have no clue?

Hi Igrip,

I haven't looked at your story in awhile, but just want to say that I am sorry to hear that id came to the point of her moving. I just feel you have done a remarkable A Plan, and that you are stronger and more settled as a result.

There is still hope tho, and I hope you are prepared to conduct an astounding Plan B at this point, and that you don't delay in implementing it. She didn't respond to the A PLan because she was able to keep the A alive. I think there is something telling in her comment about a great idea for you to live next to your MIL. That indicates to me she wants to have you available and doesn't want to cut ties with you. It indicates to me that she is still foggy an totally unrealistic in her thinking still. So, I feel that your Plan B might just knock her socks off really. At the very least it will give her a taste of what the rest of her life will be like w/o you. Just please do not involve your MIL as any kind of intermediary.

Igrip, prayers and best wishes. Just please stay in contact here with the board on a regualar basis.

Tom

Igrip,

I sort of overlooked this in your post, but the thought of 'talk about it again after she has been in her new place for some time' is a mistake I feel. The real vets here may disagree and adivse you differently, but I feel continuing contact at this point would be playing into her strategy. Use this time for yourself and to protect the remaining love you have for her and your M. Take this week to write your Plan B letter to her. I think you really do need some shock value for her at this time, and this is your opportunity. Then, after a week from today, begin writing your 500 page novel for publication...*s*

Take care Igrip,

Tom

Change the locks and go to plan B.

How do I do any sort of Plan B when we have to 'exchange' daughter twice during the day? I will begin working on the letter and post it here for proofreading though.

That is why you need to get an IM someone you know who can help you with that. Read up on plan B again.

I know this is a marriage building site but please consider this heavily! Waywards have a way of offering a 'sweet' deal because they are so eager to get out of the marriage and/or they are carrying alot of guilt. You should take advantage of this!! Get a settlement done while it is advantageous to you to do so. I can almost guarantee that if you pass this opportunity up you will sadly regret it in the future when she starts changing the offer and taking things back off the table. In the end, you will end up with a far worse deal.

There is always the possibility to re-marry if it's in the cards sometime down the road. Right now, you should strongly consider the deal if it really is a great one for you.

Hi again Igrip,

You will probably get some sound advice here from what I have seen on other threads and from jmwc95, sapphire, and mindshare here regarding a Plan B, if you so elect.

However, I can sort of tell you are unprepared for a Plan B at this time. You may want to look at other's threads where the focus is on implementing a Plan B and discussion of the difficulties.

The key to a Plan B I believe is to ally yourself with a trusted intermediary - someone neutral, and definitely not your MIL. That person has to be willing to do it for Your sake. I say again, to see each other every day for the sake of exchanging parenting for your daughter will result in a diminished Plan B for You, and will result in you playing into your W's hands again Igrip. Just please get a 'grip' on this...*s* Can you not arrange a 4-3 or 3-4 day exchange? No, that is not an NFL defense, but just insisting on a longer time that each of you parents your daughter for the sake of reducing any contact with your W and to avoid your daughter constantly being shuttled back and forth. Each of you may have to agree to arrange for some day care for your daughter to cover the times when neither of you are available, but that would not be a bad thing.

Have you consulted with your attorney in terms of your wife moving out, and what options you have?

Igrip, I have admired you for your fortitude and dedication, since I have not gone thru this myself. My only concern now is that you are not going to demand of yourself the dedication and excellence you need to have to use this opportunity to win your wife back. So many BH's who come on here have probably failed. I would like to see you win.

Take care Igrip,

Tom

Ok, perhaps I am being selfish by wanting to see my daughter every day...but does everyone else think a 3-4 day exchange period for the sake of Plan B is a good idea? I hurt so bad when I do not see my daughter. I am sure my wife will as well (perhaps that is a good thing actually now that I type this). That 'may' be tough for our daughter as well? She is 2 1/2 years old in case anyone new comes on this thread......actually, I think this idea is sound. Thoughts?

And Tom...and everyone else...thank you.

I'd be happy with that deal.

So, again, at a crossroads.

Do I ask her to go ahead and get the Decree written? To make it 'firm.' Or do I wait and go to Plan B as she moves out and wait until she brings up divorce details again?

Tough choices everywhere. Never got easier this whole time. Not that I expected any different

Here is the basics of her 'offer.'

50/50 custody.
I stay in house.
She does not go after any part of my business.
She gets two vehicles and ONE rental that she takes over (we have 6).
Child support amount based on paycheck, not anything to do with real estate cash flow.
I keep most furniture, etc as well.
No retirement, stocks, etc....

That is all.

Hi Igrip,

Igrip, I had no thought that you were being 'selfish' in wanting to see your DD everyday. That is such a natural reaction and everyone wuold understand. My only thought was some sort of a split temporary parenting that minimizes your contact with your W, if you decide a Plan B, and my other thought was that for a two-year-old it might be a little more stable than the daily shuttling back and forth.

Imho Igrip, I would not even mention divorce to your W or to get the decree drawn up. I would ignore any talk from her regarding a D, and go to Plan B. I have not been thru this, but this is just my opinion. All along you have stated that you love your W and do not want a D - I always have believed you. Therefore, doing a Plan B is another effort to save your marriage, and your love for your W, that is all it is.

In terms of this recent separation with your W moving out I can related - I honestly can. Just about a year ago, at the end of August last year, C moved out and was taken by someone from Catholic Charities to the nursing home she still resides in, and refused to communicate with anyone in the family. She had to leave here due to the fire, but my family and I had arranged that she go to another better facility. I was informed by CC where she was, tried to contact her, and was rebuffed. I kept trying for the next two weeks, and we talked a little, but she was angry, unsettled, distant, and blaming because she felt we had all abandoned her and that all of us - me, son and daughter, her brother and SIL, should pay the price for her bad judgement. I did not even know what a Plan B was at the time, but I went dark with no contact, since I knew she was in decent care. I think in the beginning we all want to somehow preserve the status quo - at least remaining in some contact with a loved one that we are separated from. That doesn't work. Long and short, just before Christmas she wanted to reestablish contact and our relationship and that is where we are now. Still many problems but far ahead of this time a year ago. Igrip, I realize that my situation is not similar to yours - I was not dealing with an affair at the time - that came later. What I was dealing with is a foggy and unsettled wife who wanted me to shoulder the blame of what went wrong.

Igrip, take some good time for yourself this weekend, and just recharge, relax, plan, and try to enjoy life as best you can. You don't have to make any life altering decisions right now - just keep Plan A'ing you, and consider your best possible Plan B.

Take very good care,

Tom

P.S. Igrip,

I think you would get more responses here, especially from the key veterans (as they like to say here), if you formulate your strategies and then ask for advice. It just seems that you describe daily events and then ask "what do you think" or "what should I do". I am not saying you come off as sitting in a corner wringing your hands. You just come off as a little indecisive in formulating a plan. An example would be: since she has moved out my W texted, called, etc. etc, several times today and I did not answer or respond because I intend to go to Plan B, here is my B letter, we have arrangements for shared parenting for out DD, I am starting to enjoy my life as best I can w/o her by going out with friends or watching movies I like, I have separated the finances, I am doing things like fitness, cooking, etc. that gets my mind off her, what do you guys think?

Despite all the stuff you have presented in terms of your W's actions (including supposidly wanting the D) I have a gut feeling she does not want to lose you, loves you still, and that she is waiting for the Igrip she knew to show himself and rescue her. I know that sounds trite, but man what else in your whole life is more important for than fighting for. So Igrip, I just feel you And your W can be a success story here. It is first down and ten, you're going to get the ball on the very next hand-off - just don't fumble the godamn thing!

Igrip, you are a special person,

Tom

Tom2010 writes,



Characteristically, Tom2010 makes good points. Mouurning the loss of DD2.5 is natural and noble; many fathers dont' feel this way at all.

I would add only one thing. Have you considered adding regular vigorous exercise to your schedule? I run 20 miles a week (4 x a week, 5 miles each) and I find the release of endorsphins does me wonders. I bet it would do the same for you, especially after WW picks up your daughter. Dr. Harley doesn't talk about exercise in SAA, but the vets do in their threads. I think you need to do it, if you're not doing it already.

------------------------------------------------
Me: BH, 39 (and no longer jobless; just broke)
Her: WW, 33
Never lived together
2 young kids (DD3 and DD1.5)
Her EA: Fall '08
She moves out of our home: Fall '09
D-day: 01/22/10
D-day #2: 06/28/10
Exposed to 12 of my WW's and the OM's friends and family members plus all of my immediate family members and some extended family
In plan A at Dr. Bill Harley's advice since May '10

igrip,

If you have 50/50 custody, why pay CS?

You are getting a better offer than I am. The key is what's the main goal here? A decent divorce arrangement or saving the marriage?

If it's the latter, I would agree to it but not push the rush on the decree. Get something in writing that you both sign and then go Plan B. Just my .02

if and when things are agreed to, documented and signed...but before the decree is finalized and while in Plan B...

what legal rights does mother in law have to the attached house?

Is it on YOUR real estate?

Discuss your rights with your attorney...if she paid to build a house on your property under the agreement she could live there indefinitely...she may have some right to money for improving your property. Though in most states anything pertaining to real estate must be in writing. You immediately "evicting" your MIL as soon as you have the right to do so may put some big time pressure on WW. You can always back down later. If you can't evict her...maybe just put a "for sale by owner" sign up and freak them out. Again...you don't have to sell anything...just going for the effect of moving on and AWAY and busting up her fantasy of a amicable friendly divorce (no matter how many times you tell them it won't be friendly they still hold a fantasy that you'll get over it and "be nice" once the dust settles....at least, that what all the other divorcees (and OM) tell her).

Plan B with exchanges...use the MIL or some other intermediary.
Daycare drop off...even if just an hour or two. Find a way to cut out seeing her...to protect YOU.

Mr. W