Have you talked about any requirements for recovery, Humbled? I mean, what happens while she's living in the guest room? I don't like that set-up. Have you eliminated the internet so that she has no access? Have you talked to her about ENs?

I'm hurt, Humbled, truly, that you think we're so heartless. No, I can see how you'd think that. We don't cotton-coat much when it comes to the business of saving marriages and ending affairs. But listen, we don't dislike your WW. As a matter of fact, I hope to see her posting here in the near future. I promise I'll be nice to her...unless she starts babbling wayward foolishness...

I too am sad that you think we are so heartless. We can tend to be a little harsh at times, but it is always done out of the end result of saving marriages. It isn't easy to get someone to see that the way you used to do things was wrong. You need to change everything about you and when you get on this side of the equation, you forget that other people don't see it the same way. Also, although I don't have a recovered marriage, I truly believe in MB and that it creates BETTER marriages than anything else out there. I preach about it to all of my IRL friends and I try to help them whenever I can. It's like a new religion though, people just aren't always willing to buy into it. It really is a lot of work.

Now, I understand that you are afraid that your WW will leave, but you need to get into the marriage saving mode. You blew up this affair, except for the lies that you should still make sure to tell OMW and tell your WW that you did. If you do it now, you can get all of her anger and resentment done all at the same time.

Next, I think you should get her on the phone with Steve. I have seen many times that Steve really knows how to get through to a WW. I don't want to see this opportunity wasted.

Nope, I have no sympathy for the "woe is me" victim mentality that so many waywards seem to have. Your history shows you have a weakness for your WW when she plays this card and she uses this vulnerability against you.

Why haven't you answered ML's posts to you regarding your DD and also the lies that your WW thinks you are protecting?

Humbled,

I don't like this path you are going down at all. IMO, you just set yourself up for more weak boundaries & bad behavior from your WW.

Did you see my post to you earlier about gearing yourself up for the talk about what YOU are going to require from her in order for YOU to stay in this M?

Oh, and the advice you got to watch her for another A? I think that was spot on.

ok, Humbled, listen up. It is time to lead your marriage out of the swamp. You are going to have to stand up and be the leader here. Allowing your wife, the drunk driver, to drive is going to result in a major crash. And right now she is driving the car. That needs to change.

Remember what I said earlier that while most marriages don't divorce over adultery, but that most don't ever recover? It is because they have no plan of recovery. The limp along for years in a crippled state that is worse than pre-affair marriage. With no plan, that is your future. No plan - no recovery.

Right now there is a huge vacuum in your wife's life where the affair was. If there is not a plan in place to fill that gap and restore your marriage, I assure you she will be onto the next affair before long. I can tell she is already thinking about it and trying to figure out a way to achieve that.

I have some ideas to get this on track but I have some questions first. Would you consider enrolling in the online program at Marriage Builders -OR- getting phone counseling with one of the Harley kids? Either of those will be the fastest horse out of this. The online program is about $1000 and is worth every penny. [my H and I went through this when it was held in a hotel]

When you sign up for the online program, they assign you a coach who assigns your lessons and follows up with you every week. You would have daily access to Dr Harley on the weekend forum. This is where I think you would really benefit because if your wife wasn't getting on board, Dr Harley would gently persuade her. He would do it, instead of you. here

This would not only provide a solid plan for recovery but you would also have Dr Harley and your assigned coach working to motivate your wife to participate.

Many of us here have gone through this same program with excellent results.

Hi All,

FYI, things going well. Dynamic in house and WW seems to be changing a lot. WW complete acceptance that A is OVER and OM not what he seemed, didn't care for her/love her as she thought (she claims complete, but probably more like 80-90%).

WW not going on web anymore (2 days) except to answer family's emails. WW accepting withdrawal symptoms as they come (shaky, skin crawling, depression, loss of appetite). Confusion about her own feelings towards OM and me.

WW caring less and less what OM's "parting image" of WW is. WW rethinking divorce and wondering now if we can fix this. More motivated to fix this - DD cried and asked her not to leave house yesterday and it broke WW's heart and motivated her.

Attitude of entitlement seems to have left the building - I and her family have been HAMMERING this one home. WW finally understands that I should be furious with her and accepts my anger as deserved on her part. I even vented today (respectfully but STRONGLY) and she humbly accepted it and apologized. WW understands that she has things to work on and that I will have demands for reconciliation.

WW feels lots of remorse, and starting to feel remorse towards me. Said she feels something deep in her stomach - she "cries for me there but isn't ready to say it out loud yet"?(her words - weird)

WW said "I love you" to me before bed, laid in our marital bed by me talking for 5 minutes this morning and asked me if I needed a hug today. Manipulation or progress? Torn because I trust you all but I also told you all my DW is in there and has always been strong/smart cookie. Thoughts? I am open.

Not avoiding anything here - quick message because whole family came down with a bug. Me, WW, DD, DS, all puking...kind of on pause for a moment. I'll get back to all other questions soon.

Hope you guys feel better soon! The bug is no fun and definitely a pause button in one's life. You are very early into recovery and it sounds as if your wife is coming slowly out of the fog. I agree with ML, you should start leading the recovery in a different way now that your wife is beginning to show remorse.

P.S. Sorry, I had to chuckle at some of the things your (F?)WW is saying. Only out of the mouths of waywards. Later (much later) you'll be able to chuckle about them too. You're doing GREAT Humble and I agree this thread will be used many times for future BHs who are afraid to expose.

OK! Sounds like you need to start putting down those conditions/ EP'S in place and things you guys need to do to start recovering from this mess.

1.) Write a NC letter to OM (and you send it after reading it)
2.) 20 Hours of UA time together per week
3.) MC with the harleys
4.) Read "His needs, Her needs" and do the questionnaire.
5.) Transperancy, you need all access to phone, email, text, and FB. No secrets!
6.) No more talking to other men, even if they are dear friends since child hood.

You can always add

GOOD LUCK!

Hi All,

Just have a minute to post. Thanks for the feedback - as soon as I can I will re-read the previous posts and answer questions. I'll also work on the conditions. Because we are so early on and she is still in and out of the fog, I may get agreement on some before others but I will be firm and persistent until they are all in place.

It is really weird to watch her. I am having conversations with her (good ones), and I can LITERALLY see her vacillate in and out of the fog. Thanks to all your feedback I am getting better at seeing when it takes over and when it lifts. It's like watching someone who is delusional - who has immersed themselves in a fantasy that they don't want to let go of - slowly become aware of reality and wake up. And I can see that the selfish, WW side of her is literally FIGHTING to hold onto the fantasy she has created, that the WW jusifies, rationalizes, and makes excuses to hang desperately onto the fantasy and live in it. And the whole time all her family's words, my words, her own logical (DW) observations, and withdrawal itself are slowly forcing her awake.

So when she is waking, I talk with her and engage her and reinforce that what she is starting to see is true, and when she gets foggy again I just back off and wait for it to pass. It seems to be working. Man, she is one confused girl right now.

Just a general question:

Is a NC letter for life really necessary when NC is in place? Isn't an NC letter more for the BS than the WS?

I think you're doing great, BTW. You're standing strong.

Yes, you're right that the "I'm doing what I can to save the marriage" response is robotic, but it's true no matter how many times you say it.

I personally would have lost it at some point and told her to stop the pitty party, grow up, take care of her kids, and pull herself together.

I don't know if that's a DJ, but I feel that a BS can and should say something like that once in a while.

But, I ended up divorced, so what do I know.

Humbled, follow Melody's advice on the D picture you need to paint for your WW if she ever brings it up.

Let her know you will not make it easy or painless. No such thing.

I'll keep following your thread, but am at a loss on what advice to give at this point since you are entering the first stages of recovery, have done a fantastic job to kill the A, and have your head on straight.

Seriously, you are a case that could end up in the MB hall of fame.

The problem with waywards is....words are cheap.

You want to look for actions that back that talk up. That's partly what things like the NC letter, etc, are for.

But for now, if I were you, I think I would just get a call in to Steve Harley ASAP. Let him work on her and then talk to him about where to go next. Just MHO.

The list from Sapphire is the direction I would want to be heading in if I were you...but let Steve help defog her and get her recommited to the M first.

BUT I was waiting(still waiting) to hear from YOU what you would need to stay in the M because you need to lose the "at all costs" attitude that you had during the A.

Hope you all feel better soon.

Hey Humbled - just checking in. You did a fantastic job with the exposure, and are handling the fallout very well. Stay firm.

I am also a little concerned like some of the other posters as to how easy WW has 'turned'. Be wary, my friend. I've gone through oh three maybe four false recoveries, so I know what to look for now. WWs tend to let you get close, then for some reason pull back away and go into withdrawal. You them have another conflict phase, and then things are good for a while.

I'd be very surprised if there isn't a relapse to some degree soon.

Just to reiterate - you're doing a fantastic job.

How is that GPS working out?

Hi All,

Back at work today. WW at home with kids - all are slowly recovering from bug we had. I think I'm going to answer all of your questions and get caught up and then I'll give you an update.

Done. I also told my wife in no uncertain terms that we will not discuss potentially painful futures with our kids unless they are actually in the process of happening. In one of my other posts I mentioned, my DD also helped with this one because she cried to my WW and asked her "please don't leave our house". That woke my selfish WW up real quick. That kind of talk has stopped now.

Done

Not yet, but I have taken the car with the carseats to work every day.

My list:

1. All the conditions Sapphire listed
2. MB program, of course.
3. Once we are into recovery and there is a re-commitment, she needs to go to individual counseling for her longstanding issues. Not negotiable.
4. She will need to step up and do equal work to repair and protect the marriage, meaning I need her to be as invested as I am in it.

Possible, and I am vigilant. Her relapses would be more likely to be her withdrawing into her fantasy in her head than anything, though - read on later, it appears the affair is dead from the OM's perspective and 95%+ dead from my WW's.