I agree....one of the reasons why it didn't work out with wheels and I (MC counseling) was because I was in an active affair, I was in the FOG, I was lying to our MC just so the odds can be in MY favor! You need to understand when the WS is in a fog she can lie and manipulate to EVERYONE! Including those who can help her, because she is only thinking about ONE thing......

HER OWN SELF!!

bizarre...no lovebusting occurred. She got out her ugly accusations and then felt guilty for saying them. Told her my only problem is that she didn't say it all 2 yearsa ago instead of after she slapped ham with some guttersnipe.

Then I announced that the whole thing is a completely useless waste of time and a sham until absolute, verifiable and permanent NC is instituted. Shockingly, the MC agreed. He assigned us 2 books to read, one being Dr. Harley's. Is it possible that I am receiving competent advice?

Lets see what she does, if nothing changes by this weekend, still do your exposure!

he recommended the book so exposure is practically a homework assignment!

GOOD!

Regarding "trickle exposure"...

it's better than no exposure. It took me 2 weeks after my day of nuclear exposure to finally track down and talk to OMW. That was two weeks more of hell.

One week after I spoke to OMW, FWW finally broke it off with OM.

So nuclear exposure is definitely, absolutely the best way.

Exposure to the OP's spouse is the most powerful exposure of all.

F4L - Just a shout-out of support! You are proving to be a great MB student! Keep up the good work. I have faith in your future and the future of your marriage.

aBetterMe

a little update...

WW promised NC and has made it 2+ days. Says she still goes back & forth in her mind as to whether or not she wants to commit to the M, but I have been plan A'ing the bejesus out of her. We are spending enormous amounts of time together - lots of good old fashioned companionship, conversation, laughter and affection. We have also fought - a very, very good sign for 2 avoiders.

In 2 weeks we are where I'd hoped to get to in 2 months. I think I have gotten ridiculously lucky - I caught it VERY early, I knew how to snoop and work plan A from my 1st M and the fog seems not too severe. I have no illusions about what lies ahead and I know we're probably in for more heartache, but I don't think the first 14 days could have gone better. Maybe tomorrow I'll breathe.

And the exposure? How was that?

didn't do it. Things took a dramatic turn on Thu when I demanded NC. I could just about see her thinking, "this is a side of you I've never seen before". I expected to have follow up conversations on it to define exactly what conditions I would be demanding. But she came home and told me the deed was done (I saw a 17 min convo on her cell) and there has not been a call or text since. OM changed his FB pic to a couples shot w/his W.

Yesterday would have been the day. If she was in contact at all without question it was on. But she was 3 days into NC and I had to make a judgment call. I told her flat out that I don't trust her and she responded "I deserve that. That has to be earned and I will earn it back."

fight, I don't understand. Why didn't you expose the affair?

you need both NC and Exposure. You used the exposure as a weapon to "fix the M"...

She will not continue NC without exposure. All they will do is get better at hiding.

1. because plan A is brilliant and working its magic
2. because she is already in NC
3. because she is letting me verify NC
4. because I am not getting any fog babble or other signs of duplicity

under these conditions I concluded that exposure is most valuable to me as a counter measure if NC is broken. I realize that this remains a strong possibility for a while and I would rather have some strong medicine for it on hand.

Sigh......

And this will only last for so long, fight I am telling you this once...

YOU WILL REGRET NOT EXPOSING!!

I appreciate your advice, I honestly do, but your latest post seems at odds with this one, no?

If I do find myself back at square one, exposure will follow swift and sure.

Yes I mentioned that last week, knowing full well you were going to expose that weekend...hence why I said lets see if nothing changes but STILL DO YOUR EXPOSURE!

Exposure is the first step on recovering your marriage even if she does decide to fix this marriage. I am telling you this right now, if you do not expose she will find someone else to have an affair and this time go deep underground with that one.

Notice my words when I said "Still do your exposure!!" I didn't say then "hold on to your exposure"...no I said STILL!

Exposure is most valuable to you in a) keeping the affair killed and b) shining the necessary light on the affair so that it clears the fog, which is a necessary step for recovery.

Affairs thrive on secrecy, so the more people who know, the more people to hold them accountable.

Secondly, how will the OMW know if you don't tell her? That step can't be skipped.

And you can't say you aren't getting signs of fogbabble. That is impossible. A wayward is foggy for weeks and months.

fight, why do you think that you are right and everyone else here, including Dr Harley, is wrong?

Your last sentence about wanting to use exposure as strong medicine after the next contact is just bizarre. You are willing to allow contact to happen.

1. You do not know that Plan A is working its magic because you do not know that all contact has ceased. Plan A has a terrible tendency to reward cake-eaters and entrench them in their affairs. They continue to seek and receive the high of the affair and the attention and flattery from their affair partner, and they enjoy the renewed effort, attention and non-lovebustering from the spouse.

Cake-eaters become very happy in Plan A. They interpret the BS's kindness and consideration as taking the pressure off the affair, or not suspecting that the affair continues - the klutz - or being willing to wait and love indefinitely until the affair burns out. This is a very rewarding position for the WS to be in; actually a better position than when they thought the affair would end the marriage, or when the BS screamed and cried after D Day.

Your wife might not be a cake-eater; she might be waiting for her OM to commit to her, but her position would be the same. She might be both in the affair and keeping the marriage going at the same time.

2. You do not know that your wife is already in NC. If she wants to continue her affair, she will be demonstrating "NC" to you while contacting her OM by means which you cannot see. If she goes out to work, she will contact him from there. If not, she will have an affair phone that you do not know about, or she will be using internet cafes or the public library to send emails.

3. See 2.

4. See 1.

I would disagree with my friend MelodyLane about waywards babbling as long as the affair is on. While this is true probably for most, it wasn't true for my H, the arch manipulator and supreme cake-eater that he was for four years, and you should not assume that it is true for your wife.

My H immediately told me on and after D Day that the affair was a bit extra on top of a good marriage, that I had done nothing wrong, that he had continued the affair after the first D Day (two years earlier) because it was easy to get away with - she lived abroad, that he had never wanted to leave and that he did not want to leave now. He went to Belgium two days later as scheduled for work, and when he came back, told me it was all over. He then proceeded to woo and court me. Our sex life went through the roof, and it wasn't me who was initiating the encounters. He never said a single foggy thing that I can remember, and still, 5 years later, never has. And yet he continued the PA for anther 15 months after that D Day until he couldn't cope with everything any more and stopped travelling, and he continued the EA for 6 months even after that, talking to OW and enjoying her flattery and pleas until I exposed to her H.

During that 2 years between D Day and exposure, I facilitated probably about a dozen more sleepovers between my H and OW. I could not tell what was going on by looking at my H's face, watching his body language - which was loving me and making love to often, anyway - or snooping on him, because he did everything at work. We had no computer in the home for me to spy on, and the workplace mobile phone - his only mobile - stayed at work.

He didn't sneak off, disappear for unexplained minutes, break off telephone conversations mid-sentence, come home and jump in the shower or give me any other "signs of duplicity" because he did everything at work. and physically only when he travelled abroad. There was plenty of time for showering and changing underwear before he left his hotel room.

You do not know better than everyone here, and I hope you will listen to us. The damage to your marriage caused by the gaslighting, lying and extra contact that you seem set to allow might prove too much for you to overcome.

And so your exposure plan, with which you entitled this thread, is to NOT expose.

Mel/SC - I get that exposure is THE tool to break up the A, and to keep it that way. I had it teed up, but WW went ahead and gave me NC at the initial demand. I know this because she had no idea if I was monitoring her and if so, how. She also voluntarily gave me all her login/passwords (I had them all anyway) and she did not go in and sanitize for incriminating info. I am free to pick up her work cell and look at call logs whenever I want, right in front of her. Every question I asked in the last week that I already knew the answer to she answered honestly and some were very painful to admit.

The OM told her he was seperated, which turned out to be a lie, a fact she only now understands. He is 200 miles away and with me on the case and his AP saying she wants to restore her M he has apparently moved on in search of easier prey. I have no responsibility to OMW or to their sorry marriage, eff the lot of 'em. My only regret about not exposing is I was looking forward to nuking this POS.

Yes, I know that if WW wants to stay in contact I can never build a fence high enough. Exposure does not alter this immutable fact. Your discussion of the cake eater is very cogent and has given me additional info to process.

As for doing everything from work, it is possible but would be difficult. She is at her desk no more than 20% of the time and her assistant reads her email & answers her phone when she is away from her desk, and there is bad blood there (going back long before the A).

Look, I get that the veterans of this board are adamant that there are no circumstances that obviate exposure. I think individual circumstances are relevant. As such, I believe that exposure AT THIS JUNCTURE would be perceived as particularly vengeful and punitive, especially in light of the steps that WW has taken. Its not that my plan is no plan or that I think I'm smarter than someone else, I just think that the intervening events make this the best course of action right now. Maybe today will bring events that cause me to reevaluate that judgment.