Man in Motion wrote,


Man in Motion was correct. She was dismissive more than submissive. I talked with Honey again on Friday night about the OM being. She rescinded her remark that the OM would not be around DD3 and DD1. While she agreed that each of us has a say in whom our girls see, she basically said that the OM can be around our kids.

Her response is unacceptable. At a minimum, I am thinking seriously about Plan D. If she she thinks the OM is good enough for our girls, what hope is there for our marriage? Also, we've only been married 5.5 years. Honey has been with him for 1.5 years. I'm worried that Honey would love only under certain subjective conditions - I made enough money, things weren't too tough for her, etc.

Beyond that, I plan to tell Honey that I will no longer give full dollar amounts for daycare for DD3 because I found a publicly funded preschool school for her.

I'm conflicted. I do not want to divorce Honey. Being without her and our girls would be horrible for me, akin to severing one of my limbs. But the Om being around our girls is also unacceptable. She's crossed a major line.

We also argued about this on the phone for 10 minutes. I blasted the OM, said he abandoned his teenage kids in another state; she said all of her friends and family advise her to divorce me. I told her that schoolbus advised: If we divorce, this won't be a fanatasy divorce. I would go for full custody, child support and spousal support. Honey blew her stack at that last claim; said I was "f____ng deadbeat."

Yet today picking up our girls she was perfvectly civil and down to earth and accommodating.

------------------------------------------------
Me: BH, 39 (and no longer jobless; just broke)
Her: WW, 33
2 young kids (DD3 and DD1.5)
Her EA: Fall '08
She moves out of our home: Fall '09
D-day: 01/22/10
D-day #2: 06/28/10
Exposed to 12 of my WW's and the OM's friends and family members plus all of my immediate family members and some extended family
In plan A at Dr. Bill Harley's advice since May '10

IMO it's time to look into that restraining order.

ManinMotion writes,


Establishing my boundaries with Honey is part of the stick of a good Plan. But is filing a restraining order also part of it?

My sense is that Dr. H advises that whenever possible don't go the legal route, as it makes the WW want to file. I don't know. Having the OM around DD3 and DD1.5 is unacceptable. And my Taker has had enough of Honey's boundary pushing.

-----------------------------------
Me: BH, 39 (and no longer jobless)
Her: WW, 33
2 young kids (DD3 and DD1.5)
Her EA: Fall '08
She moves out of our home: Fall '09
D-day: 01/22/10
D-day #2: 06/28/10
Exposed to 12 of my WW's and the OM's friends and family members plus all of my immediate family members and some extended family
In plan A at Dr. Bill Harley's advice since May '10

Hi MJ.

I have been following your thread and have been meaning to post to you for awhile, but have been busy and have used my time here to post on a few other people's threads. Also, have been busy with my DS24 in playing dad again, as he is staying with me now while looking for a new job and getting over a relationship end (with a female 10 years older - ugh!).

I haven't read Harley's articles for awhile on the concepts, but I cannot imagine that advising against legal action pertaining to the protection of your family is one of the no-no's. I think the advice against legal action pertains to seeking a D and not to protecting children, especially very your children. As I recall awhile back you were concerned about the possibility of inappropriate touching. Even if this is only an unsubstantiated concern (which hopefully it is) I would seek a restraining order like yesterday no matter what your W's reaction may be. This is your right and your obligation as a dad. As I also recall, when you first voiced your concern about your W allowing your DD's to be around the OM you had quite abit of support here. Then you sort of trailed off in following thru, and I believe that caused you to lose the support of the experienced vets here. Just my opinion.

MJ, if I were in your shoes I would arrange a face-to-face meeting with her parents and her sister, if they are in the area now while at the beach, to re-expose, especially in regard to her allowing their granddaughters to be around this guy. Use whatever evidence you have. In the meeting you will of course have to be factual, cool, and persuasive, no matter what the history is between you and them. Last I saw was a statistic that, although there are many people who do engage in an A, nearly 90% of adult americans believe that an affair is simply immoral and wrong. I think the sentiment would be a little higher if young children are exposed to an affair partner. Ugh! I just think if you start taking some positive action, MJ, that you will have alot more support.

In my short while here I have seen quite a number of people, especially the BH's, come here and just fade away. I believe that happens because, although they may possess the desire and the knowledge, they don't have the will - the will to do the right thing even tho there may be a price.

Well, admittedly MJ, I don't have the experience to offer as the true vets here do. The only thing I can offer is my observations, my suppor,t and hopefully a little inspiration.

Take care.

Tom

Have you picked up the phone for a restraining order? I would ask why not, but any excuse is unacceptable.

MJ,

If this man does something to your kids, it will be YOUR fault for failing to do anything about it.

Think about it.

As far as losing your W and kids being like losing a limb:

It�s not. Stop the drama. You will get over your wife. Trust me. But as far as your kids, that�s on you to make it happen. Being prepared and having a good lawyer will secure your rights as a dad.

Time for talk to stop and action to start.

MiM, Tom2010, wheels, and help -- Thanks for your advice. I'll look into the restraining order. A couple of my friends are lawyers; I will ask them.

I don't want to go the legal route, as I think it increases my chance of a divorce and thus deprives my daughters, for the time being at least, of growing up in a household headed by their biological mother and father. But you are right: Having the OM around my two young daughters is unacceptable.

Tom2010 writes,


Does this scenario have ANY likelihood of success? My IL's ignored my exposure letter, sent in February; refused to talk with me; and I don't know, exactly, where they are staying. If the vets know of anyone who's had success re-exposing, I would consider talking with my IL's.

The problem with my IL's isn't their moral philosophy. It's their epistemology. My IL's are in serious denial. Like the vast majority of Americans, they consider adultery wrong, as they would consider child molestation wrong. But they would never consider that their child is guilty of such a thing.

-----------------------------------
Me: BH, 39 (and no longer jobless)
Her: WW, 33
2 young kids (DD3 and DD1.5)
Her EA: Fall '08
She moves out of our home: Fall '09
D-day: 01/22/10
D-day #2: 06/28/10
Exposed to 12 of my WW's and the OM's friends and family members plus all of my immediate family members and some extended family
In plan A at Dr. Bill Harley's advice since May '10

What is the current arrangement with your kids? Are they split evenly with you? Are they fulltime with you with visits to her?

She left, which gives you grounds to file.

You�re in a state of denial right now and as a result you�re not protecting yourself or your kids.

Get this through your head: She isn�t going to magically wake up until you pull out the legal 2x4s, which means filing restraining orders against OM and filing abandonment charges against her and seeking spousal support.

That, combined with a Plan B, will do more for waking her up than the non plan you�re following right now. Hope is not a plan.

help writes,


We're separated informally. She gets our girls 4.5 days a week, I get 'em 2.5 days a week.

She left the house, in October '09. I moved out of that house in June of this year.

I looked into filing a restraining order in my state (D.C.) and their state (Virginia). Filing takes about two days, of court appearances and filling out forms. In D.C., filing temporary restraining order and a preliminary injunction plus paying a server fee costs $300. That's a lot of time and money. But I am preppared to do it.

As for me getting tough with Honey, I told her last week thatif she filed for divorce, I would file for the whole enchilada: full custody, child support, and spousal support. She hit the roof on that last one. "Effing deadbeat," she said. To the the guy who's paid her on time and enough for her to cover expenses since after she moved out. Typical wayturd.

-----------------------------------
Me: BH, 39 (and no longer jobless; just broke)
Her: WW, 33
Never lived together
Married 6 years; together 10 years
2 young kids (DD3 and DD1.5)
Her EA: Fall '08
She moves out of our home: Fall '09
D-day: 01/22/10
D-day #2: 06/28/10
Exposed to 12 of my WW's and the OM's friends and family members plus all of my immediate family members and some extended family
In plan A at Dr. Bill Harley's advice since May '10

As a follow up to the restraining order idea, I have a question about the tactics. Should I just file OR tell her that unless she agrees that the OM can no longer be around our kids, I will file? I'm guessing the former.


-----------------------------------
Me: BH, 39 (and no longer jobless; just broke)
Her: WW, 33
Never lived together
Married 6 years; together 10 years
2 young kids (DD3 and DD1.5)
Her EA: Fall '08
She moves out of our home: Fall '09
D-day: 01/22/10
D-day #2: 06/28/10
Exposed to 12 of my WW's and the OM's friends and family members plus all of my immediate family members and some extended family
In plan A at Dr. Bill Harley's advice since May '10

What you need to do is file an immediate return of your girls to the marital home.

WW'es greatest tonic for the fantasy idiocy they're stuck in is a man who stands up and fights and the realization that they could lose everything.

i'm not telling you to file for D. I am telling you that you need to file to have your daughters returned to the marital home.

That, combined with a restraining order, is a big wake up. If you don't have a court order that says she gets the kids, then nothing prevents you from keeping them in your home when they are with you.

Talk it over with a lawyer first, but you can and should have the children in the marital home.

help,

There are three problems with that scenario:

1. I no longer live in the marital home.

2. D.C. and northern Virginia are 50-50 custody areas. Getting 100 percent custody is impossible, unless my wife is a drug addict, which she's not.

3. Fighting a custody battle costs $10k-12k in lawyer fees at a minimum. I'm not paying that much for the one in a million chance I get full custody.

What do you think about filing right away versus telling her I'm doing so? I'm guessing the former.

Hi MJ,

To be honest I have no idea how a meeting like that would turn out, but if I were in your shoes I would simply give it a shot. I am by far not an expert, just thinking what I would do, and just taking an honest and direct approach even tho there are no guarantees. Yea, I could understand your IL's feelings that their daughter could not do wrong, at least initially, but after that You have nothing to lose. The only thing I could suggest is to have pretty convincing evidence, even it if was a statement from your older duaghter, altho very young, that yes your wife exposed her to another man, period. You simply have to use your best judgement MJ.

I strongly advise you to listen up and really hear the advice from "helpthelostdads". I have seen his posts before, and he is dedicated and honest and unwavering. If I were in your shoes MJ, he would be my coach.

I understand what you are going thru - a threatening life change - that is what it is. We are all going thru that in one way or another, so just please take heart and get greaed up and follow the advice here is best I can say. As I told you awhile ago, am rooting for you but you have to step up/

Prayers and take care,

Tom

MJ,


You do not know what a court will rule until the court rules. First of all, you are not divorced, you are not even legally separated.

1. You need to get an attorney and tell that attorney what YOU want.

2. You need to go Plan B with Honey, now. No more Mr. Nice Guy, because Honey reads this as "Doormat".

3. No more financial gifts.

4. You now work out a NEW financial deal, immediately, that splits the costs of the kids. Period. She makes more money, she does more lifting. Sorry Honey, that's the way of the NEW world, the REAL world. If she doesn't like it, she can also find an attorney. That attorney will tell her that the cow ate the cabbage that way, too, because it is the trend of the courts.

5. I would say to you that if you have any shot with her, you need to be a STEEL CURTAIN, and show her that you are through messing around. She needs to see nothing but a wall when she looks your way. PERIOD. Find that within you, or this woman will eat you alive in divorce court.

6. The marital home is not a "place". It is a concept.


SB

The reality that's headed your way:

You will surrender your kids to your WW.

You will pay a huge amount of child support, putting you in financial straights, because you are being Mr. Niceguy.

You will let your WW control when and where you get to see your kids.

You will watch as she replaces you with another man and have him become the new daddy for the kids, all while being supported by you.

Enjoy.

You've been warned, but you continue to sit in denial. The $10k-$20k you pay now for equal time with your kids will pay for itself in all the CS you will save yourself.

More importantly, your kids will have a father who they see regularly, can actually afford to buy them things and take them places, and who is emotionally healthy because he's not broke and is able to see his children.

But your alternative is what i mentioned. That's the path you're on and it's because you fail to do what you must.

Guess which one I was?

Both of those. I was first just like you and about a year after our D I woke up and fought for time with my kids. I'd don't have 50/50, but it's close.

Guess which one I prefer?

I would have saved much more money if I had fought from the start and would have had much more time with my kids when they were little.

Tom 2010 writes,


My IL's will stay at a hotel in D.C. on Saturday. Seeing them then would be my best shot. Not a good or even decent shot, but a shot just the same. Now I just need to find out where they're staying for the night.

schoolbus writes,

I tend to agree with you. Plan B is the best way to go. Honey has no respect for me at all, to the point that she exposes her AP to our kids. That's ridiculous. Now I just need to make arrangements with her to pick up the kids and get friends who could serve as IM's for me. This will take time.

As for the finances, are you saying that I should give Honey no money at all for our mutual expenses, such as day care and credit card loans?

Also, I would be interested in reading your thoughts about Honey's reaction to my we-can-still-have-a-great marriage speech and request that she write me a letter. She was feeling guilty and just throwing me relationship crumbs, right?

Helpthelostdads writes,


Honey would not get everything she wanted, because the laws in D.C. and Virginia are fairly equitable. But you're right: Honey is getting her way right now. She dictates when I get to the seek our kids. And she dictates whom the kids see. That's unacceptable.

By the way, I read some more last night about filing a restraining order. To play the devil's advocate, On what legal grounds would a judge grant my request that the OM should be prevented from having contact with DD3 and DD1.5? The OM hasn't hurt them; he hasn't touched them inappropriately; he hasn't threatened them.

-----------------------------------
Me: BH, 39 (and no longer jobless; just broke)
Her: WW, 33
Never lived together
Married 6 years; together 10 years
2 young kids (DD3 and DD1.5)
Her EA: Fall '08
She moves out of our home: Fall '09
D-day: 01/22/10
D-day #2: 06/28/10
Exposed to 12 of my WW's and the OM's friends and family members plus all of my immediate family members and some extended family
In plan A at Dr. Bill Harley's advice since May '10

I recently found out that my wife was having an affair.We are in the process of rebuliding, but it has only been 3 weeks since I found out. I have not read all of the books yet, but I wanted to know is there any information on telling the OM wife about the affair? I want to tell her but I am not sure it would be right to do. We all work for the same company so it may spread like fire if she tells anyone else.

Please start your own thread rather than seek advice on Michael's. You will get a lot more responses and a lot more useful advice.

Quick update: Joyce Harley sent me an email saying I could be on the show Thursday. But I'm hoping for Friday. I could use Dr. H's advice. Stay tuned.

Another update: I'm reading, and enjoying, "The Love Dare." Will it be of use during Plan B? Here's hoping.

By the by, I'm following in Sick of Limbo's steps on both moves, though I talked with Dr. H on the phone before I started this thread.

-----------------------------------
Me: BH, 39 (and no longer jobless; just broke)
Her: WW, 33
Never lived together
Married 6 years; together 10 years
2 young kids (DD3 and DD1.5)
Her EA: Fall '08
She moves out of our home: Fall '09
D-day: 01/22/10
D-day #2: 06/28/10
Exposed to 12 of my WW's and the OM's friends and family members plus all of my immediate family members and some extended family
In plan A at Dr. Bill Harley's advice since May '10

when exactly is this program, and anyone know how I can listen? (is their a webcast, etc). I am interested in hearing this.