BS = 44
WW = 40
Married = 20
EA = 2, now ended
Children = 5

My wife spent a few years saying she didn't want to be married. A lot of people, especially her family, noticed she wasn't treating me well anymore. I did a few things right during that time, but she still kept down the road. Then she found a lengthy, intense and romantic, online EA. It got worse after there was a physical contact during a trip last summer. I went through multiple painful discoveries of betrayals after things were exposed a little over a year ago. She would alienate herself from everyone who knew and from other people in her life, partly to justify her bad behavior, and kept going back. The OM lives on the other side of the planet.

She finally broke off the relationship with the OM a couple of months ago. She did some counseling, about five years after I asked for us to go into counselling, but she basically kept telling the counselor, "I know that I should, but I don't want to right now. I want to pursue a dream before I make any decisions about my marriage."

After the years of "I don't want to be in the marriage," she decided to do what she always wanted to do: about a month ago she moved to the other side of the planet. She took two of the children with her and left me with three.

During this last month, she's written one nice email, right at the beginning. She signed it with "love." After that, I've received silence or been CC'd when she, about once a week, emails the children.

One of the children with me, 10, has been devastated. He cries for his mom and other siblings. I'm holding things together fairly well and giving him and the other children with me a good home.

I'm certainly not perfect. All of my accomplishments with myself and with the marriage have seemed about six months too late. I'm always learning something about ways I can improve or about the relationship after something else goes wrong. I found this website only a few months ago.

During all this time, though, I've improved my career and provided a more stable income. I've been able to provide more security in other ways for the family. I've lost weight and gained muscle. I've taken better care of myself (except for quite a few weeks last year and this year when I was pretty darn devastated). I've become a better dad. I've done many things that normally would've made her proud of me. And, I think, if she'd give me a chance, I'd be a better husband today than I could've been a few years ago.

I was diagnosed with ADHD at the end of last year (again, a little late). I've been quite a space cadet all my life and that caused a lot of job and marriage problems. This was picked up, quite miraculously, by my physician during a routine physical. I didn't really know what ADHD was before my doctor told me I had a disorder. I just knew that I was somewhat insane and wasn't able to do a lot of the things that other people can do. Some of my kids also have mental issues, probably inherited from both their parents, and those things have made life hard on my wife. And she's helped raise an adopted child with reactive attachment disorder.

All of this has been humbling (and, at times, brutal to my sense of self-worth and direction).

I've decided that I will wait things out for a couple more years. I think my wife was headed in the right direction before she left last month. I'm not in a hurry to go through a divorce.

I'm a bit worried that my wife was just faking some things so I wouldn't ask the courts intervene and keep her from taking the kids out of the country. Now that she isn't writing me, I'm thinking the worst and worried about the children with her. I really don't know anymore. I'm still having a hard time fathoming everything else that has happened.

Sorry this is so long, I hope someone reads this.

I wish that I could still have a plan that would improve security and minimize negatives and give her emotional support, but there don't seem to be many repairs that can be made when she's that far away and when she's cut herself off. Does anyone have ideas?

I want the two kids that are with her come home to stay. I plan to fly them home before Christmas. She was going to fly them home at the beginning of next summer. I wonder if this is why she's not writing me. I'm even thinking that I might have to involve the courts to make this happen. I don't feel good about how she's broken up the family. It's easy for me to involve the courts because I have no access to my children right now. I don't feel good that she isn't open with me because that might me that the OM is back in her life.

Any advice, on anything I've posted, would be appreciated.

string, I am so sorry you are here.

The main thing that comes to mind from reading your post is that you should file for divorce and get custody of your kids. Your wife should not be allowed to drag your kids all over the world in pursuit of her own selfish interests.

I would file for divorce on grounds of adultery, get your kids back and get legal possession of your home.

Basically the first thing is to protect your kids from her.

Secondly, if you are giving her any money, I would cut that off.

The problem here is that your wife is so far gone with her waywardness that she may never come back. If it is possible for her to wake up, filing for divorce and getting your kids might be the thing to wake her up.

And most importantly, I would be telling everyone about her affair. Everyone should know. Affairs thrive on secrecy, and exposure ruins the fantasy.

The most important thing is to get your kids back and protect them.

String, my heart is breaking for your poor children. You sound like you have laid down and let your WW pretty much do anything she wanted. Which is your business, of course. But please consider the emotional health of your children! Please get legal help to get your childen back!

I appreciate the feedback. Honestly.

I don't think I've allowed a lot of things. I did some exposing once I finally realized what was happening. It took quite a few months, but she eventually started to accept counseling and being open with a few other people about what she was doing.

I felt that taking custody of the children (stopping them from going with her) would have been a marriage ender. Call me stupid, but I still have hope. She says the children are coming back.

I don't want to make excuses for bad behavior. I believe, however, that my ADHD and many of her expectations of her family life being shattered has made things hard. I would want her to be patient with me. I'm trying to be patient with her. I believe there's a reason, other than security, that she hasn't yet visited an attorney (I could be wrong, of course).

I will talk to an attorney and try to get back into a better legal situation with custody for the children (because I know a likely ending is still divorce).

I also need to work on me. I'm really fit right now, but I can do a little better. I can continue to be better with career and social skills and sticking up for myself. This will all help if she does come back.

Any tips on long distance spark reignitions?

Ok String,

It is time as we say around here for a 2x4 upside the head.

You did NOT cause her to break up her family and leave 3 children without a mother or their siblings...SHE DID THAT.

Your ADHD is NOT the reason she ran half way around the planet, she could have easily left you in the country you are in.

YOUR fitness or lack of it, is not the reason she abandoned her children and have split the others from you and their siblings.

String, this is NOT about you, you MUST AND I MEAN MUST understand this. What you are doing for yourself is great and I strongly encourage you to continue it but this will NOT restore your marriage because the issues are clearly far greater than you comprehend.

This is not just about an affair, or a lovers spat, this woman left three children and split her children apart. NO rational woman or man does this. She has far greater issues that you imagine.

My recommendation is for you to see a good counselor, pro-marriage better yet call the Harley's. Read the articles here which should be easier for you if you are addressing your ADHD, are you using ridelin (sp)? And please seek the advice of a good attorney.

More important than your marriage is the mental health of your children, three of which has lost two siblings and by the same token two of which have lost three siblings. Apart from all of them losing one parent.

Please protect them, seek legal protection, and seek the best advice you can find.

God Bless,

JL

Stinger, I urge you to get a custody order in place for all of your children immediately. As in by the end of the day Monday type immediately.

Try to find a lawyer who knows something about the Hague Convention on the Civil Aspects of International Child Abduction which applies when there has been a "wrongful removal or retention" of a child from his country of "habitual residence."

Your wife's removal of the kids from this country was not wrongful because you consented. However, her retention will be wrongful when you assert your custody rights.

If you wait, the country that she is living in will become the children's country of habitual residence.

A custody order will establish that the laws of your state, rather than the laws of the country your wife took the kids to, will be applied. You do not want to be traveling half way around the world to try to get yearly visitation from a foreign court.

I litigated a couple of these. It can very complicated, very quickly.

You don't have to decide right this second whether you want to divorce. You just have to decide to get a custody order.

If you can't find a lawyer who knows about the Hague Convention, print out this post and give it to your lawyer.

The notice to your wife of all actions taken in the custody suit must be squeaky, and I mean SQUEAKY, clean.

The custody order itself should be written in language so crystal clear that a it would be clear and unambiguous to a four year old. "Petitioner" and "respondent" and "wherefore" and "hereinafter" have no place in such an order.

If your wife is in a non-English speaking country, I recommend having a translator look at the language of the order to ensure it cannot be misinterpreted.

Preserve your rights. You can decide how you want to exercise those rights later, but you can't exercise them if you don't have them.

I appreciate the 2x4 upside the head and the legal advice.

This last month of separation has helped me find some peace, even in the midst of hurt and fear for the children. I can detach better from the situation. I can see and understand the drug-like behavior that was taking place with the EA. I can start to separate that from me.

A few days ago, I found out that the OM, the so-called "friend," has moved across a country to be in my WW's life. My two children are now being exposed to visits by the OM.

I don't know why I believed that would never happen.

After that revelation, I talked to a lawyer on the phone. He stated that a legal separation or divorce was needed to put teeth into custody rights. I still don't want to do that.

My wife's family called me again today and asked me to please get full custody of the children and to divorce their daughter. I know they love their daughter unconditionally.

I exposed the affair to a friend who was flying out over the weekend to stay with my wife. The friend cried. She promised to help me with the children and is hoping to help my wife.

Time is ticking. Damage continues to be inflicted on friends, family and, most especially, the children. I know my legal options are being weakened with every passing week. I'm not blind to any of this.

But I want our children to have their mom back. I'm afraid that legal actions will take away the hope we have for a better future as a family. Some people, including the older children, are proud of my patience and love.

I had hoped to see some true owning up by the WW after there was some space between us.

I need to have another discussion with an attorney.

Ok, string, you need to listen up, my friend. You are making serious strategic mistakes that are harmful to your wife, your marriage and most especially your children. Your appeasement tactics will buy you nothing except a whole lot of contempt and disgust if and when your wife ever wakes up from this nightmare. She will remember that you would not stand up for your marriage and protect your children.

There is absolutely no good reason for you not to file for divorce and regain custody of your children. Not doing so is reckless and irresponsible for your children. Your wife is not in her right mind and cannot be a good parent now. Your children need you to protect them from that.

Nor does it do your wife any good for you to enable her affair and her reckless behavior. An act of caring would be to slap her HARD with a divorce action. That will do more than anything to wake her up.

You are helping no one by allowing this go on unimpeded and I predict you will pay dearly if you dno't knock it off. You are hurting everyone involved.

Don't be surprised if they're playing house and your wife is trying to get the kids to call him Daddy. Seriously.

It's what my own wayward mother did to me.


Because you are under the misapprehension that the woman your wife is now is the woman you married.

She isn't.

She is a selfish, entitled wayward woman who will ALWAYS put her own needs before those of her family.


You MUST protect your family. Your wife won't. Your children NEED you now. You absolutely MUST get all your children together and get custody. You are allowing your wife to expose your children to her selfish, immoral behavior. This will leave them morally confused for the rest of their life if you don't STOP it.

You want to get your family back together - wife included. But right now you have to do what is best for the kids and let your wife sink or swim on her own. She can figure out how to swim - she is a big girl - your kids can't swim on their own. Help THEM.


Listen to them.

Losing her children will help your wife hit rock bottom. She needs to hit it before she can rebuild.


Use all the help you can get.


[/quote]

Act NOW. Act while you still have a position of strength. Remember that if your wife changes, you can always pursue reconciliation. People have gotten remarried after divorce. It happens. But sometimes you gotta just let the wife go. Dr. Harley described similar situations just this last week on his radio show. He is currently counseling 3 couples in just this situation.

Help your kids now.

If your wife ever emerges from her fog, she will RESPECT AND THANK YOU for doing what was right for your kids.

Get separation, file, get custody.


You fail to understand the nature of an affair. She won't own up to it until she faces the consequences of her actions. For her, it will probably take the loss of her family. Only THEN may you see your real wife emerge.

Giving her space just allowed her to become more entrenched in her affair.



Yes, you do. ASAP

There is no patience and love here. There is reckless enabling and a neglect of your obligation to stand up for your children and protect them from your wayward wife. There is nothing loving about enabling someone to be detructive, Sir. You are allowing your wife to harm your children. That is NOT LOVE.

Seriously? You need to man up and fight for your children (how awful for them that they are separated from their siblings!).

One of the most important steps in MB recovery from an affair is to KILL the affair. Right now, she has what she wants. She living in lala land with two of your children and thinks everything is hunky-dorey. You need to change that mindset by showing her what it will REALLY be like if you divorce.

Have you read the materials on this site? Plan A and Plan B? It's difficult if not impossible to Plan A from a distance. IMHO, you need to go to Plan B (AFTER you get your children back!)

That is very unlikely to happen when you enable someone. People wake up when they are faced with consequences and not allowed to harm others. You are protecting her from the consequence - with all your "lurve and patience" - and sacrificing your children in your eagerness to enable her.

Your children will remember that you wouldn't stand up for them, string.

People, I ended my last message saying that I was going to talk again with an attorney.

The speed at which many of you mock and judge me is quite sad for a support forum. I can own up to my mistakes. Again, however, this is a support forum. I don't need to hear about how I'm harming everyone around me with my "lurve." Affairs are hell. Support forums for people harmed by affairs (the WS or FS) shouldn't have to be hell, too.

That little sting you feel are a few well-aimed, well-deserved , string. You are going about this the wrong way. Posters who have learned are trying to tell you that, and you move along with your own plan - a plan that you have been told will not work.

There are a lot of posters who come here to find out how to kill their spouse's A, and they follow the hard-won advice they are given. It should be easy to see how frustating it can be to try to help a poster who won't take advice, and then gets upset because they're not getting support. None of us are paid to be here. We're here because we don't want anyone else to feel the pain we have felt, and want to help those who are where you are. We KNOW, string. We've BEEN THERE. Many of us have killed our spouses' A's and enjoy a restored M that is better than ever before. Can you see where it would be a little frustrating for the posters who take their personal time to help, and you get upset because you think we're not supporting you?? What kind of support do you want? A big group hug? Virtual warm fuzzies?

String, you're getting support. And it's better than any support you'll find elsewhere. You are getting advice and are being given tools! Why won't you use them?? You are in a war for your marriage, string! There's no time to waste right now!

So straighten up that spine, thicken up that skin, and hunker down and get your M back! Or at least get those kids back!

Sheesh!

string, because we ARE a support forum, we will give you a much needed 2x4 when it is warranted! Please benefit from the "judgement" of those who have been there, done that and saved their marriages.

Sometimes that is what it takes to wake someone up. And yes, we know that you said you would talk to an attorney, but talking is not the same as action. And action is warranted in your case.

We are fully in support of your marriage and family, and the posts above reflect exactly that. You are going to have to buck up here, Sir, if you want to make it. Sorry to be harsh, but right now that is you need to hear. You are in a terrible predicament and half measures will avail you nothing. We know, because we have been there. And we care!

p.s. We are on your side!! All the way, Jose!!

GET A NEW LAWYER! Or be forceful with the one you have.

You do not need something with teeth. You are not living in Topeka Kansas looking to enforce your custody order in Flint Michigan.

You need a piece of paper with a certified imprint on it that says in large and unambiguous letters that the laws of the United Stares and in particular your state will be applied here.

Tha't's it. That is the right I am imploring you to keep.

Sorry, I'm on an Ipad and don't know how to go back and correct the typos.

I feel your paralyzing pain. Try to break through it on this one thing.

You are taking our legal system for granted which I understand, but so is your lawyer which I don't understand.

You ASSUME that your wife won't file where she is like you assumed OM wouldn't move, and you further ASSUME that that countries laws will require that you be given notice and an opportunity to ve heard.

Not so. I litigated and lost a case from Brazil where the father never for notice of the mother filing for custody and the court in my state held that Brazil was the country of the child's habitual residency, a custody order had been entered there, and any further inquiry into notice and an opportunity to be heard was in violation of the Hague Convention

And that judge who ruled against my client with grave misgivings was absolutely correct.

Sigh.

Please do this. It isn't about your M. These are your children.

I am curious, are you the bio-dad of all these children?

How did she pick which ones to take and which ones to leave?

Hows the lawyer thing going?

If I may ask which country did she goto?

The judge in my case correctly held that whether Brazil's notice provisions were complied with was a question for the Brazilan court and that if that case got dismissed in Brazil for lax of notice, the judge would be most sympathetic to my client and inclined to give him whatever he wanted.

I don't know what happened after that. Almost from the beginning I did the case for free- I think he paid me maybe $2000? I'm certain there is no way he came up with the kind of cash to go to Brazil to fight for his kids.

That's was many years ago and it still breaks my heart - the expression on that man's face when he realized hee might seriously never see his children again----that is why I am so all over this

I will be discussing international law with a good attorney ASAP. I respectfully disagree with many who have responded about the divorce option (as I still disagree about the mocking tone of a few posters). Marriage is sacred. If I'm able to continue in it, I will.

When I talk with the attorney, I'm going to attempt to stay away from even legal separation at this point, unless the attorney sees few other options to set up precedents for an appropriate parenting plan (how custody is handled in my state). If there is no good option to protect the children, then I may have to look at a legal separation.

Yes, I have been somewhat paralyzed when it comes to the legal issues. Knowing that there is more than one option to make a legal record of what has been taking place, to set some direction for any future required legal actions, and to make sure my local laws apply according to the Hague helps me move forward.

As far as other questions go, four are biological and one was adopted. I have no good answer to how she planned all of this, including dividing the children. It's messed up.

Thanks again for the 2x4s and advice.

p.s. It's a small world these days. I fear for the children, but I've been able to set up contacts with people who know the situation completely. I'm keeping communication. They will return home soon.