I filed for divorce 3 and 1/2 years ago after learning of my husband's sexual affair with a woman he'd had an emotional affair with 18 mos. prior. We were in individual counseling after the first episode, at which time he was lying about becoming involved again. This affair was with a long time, married employee whose husband forced her to quit when the EA was revealed. Upon learning about the sexual affair, my husband again wanted to pursue counseling. After several months of counseling, I learned he was sexually involved with the woman who was hired to take the place of the first mistress!! They were involved off and on for two years until she was forced out of his office. One has to wonder why we are yet to divorce, but a number of "life issues" caused the delay, in addition to the decline in my mental and physiacal health. We have been married 34 years and of course, being a successful health professional, he is greatly worried about the hit his wallet is about to take, while I am greatly concerned about losing my health insurance and being able to take care of myself due to a degenerative arthritis. He says that he ended the affair with the second mistress about 8 mos ago, has been seeing a Christian counselor, and has now expressed an interest in reconciling. The counselor that I have been seeing since the first SA 3 1/2 years ago, recently recommended Dr. Harley's books and approach for me to consider. I am impressed with his approach and having read a plethora of books on the subject of infidelity, believe that Dr. Harley is onto something. My question is, does anyone else think that a marriage can be saved after such a lengthy separation and multiple affairs, SHOULD my husband agree to the approach and guidelines? His track record stinks, however, he never intended a long-term commitment with either of these women. I feel that he thought he could have his cake and eat it, too - go out and fool around for a few years fully expecting me to take him back. I have worked VERY hard to come through a severe and lengthy depression and don't know if it is worth the risk to trust him and try again. Has anyone else had a similar situation as far as the length of separation, and had success?

Baffled, I myself have not been around long enough to see what you have described, so I can't answer if there has ever been anyone on here who has experienced the same things and survived.

My question for you is what do you want to do? If you want to try to reconcile, it will be up to YOU. We can help guide you through the MB principles. This is going to be a tough hard road but it IS possible.

Here is a link to a thread to help newly betrayed. It helps guide you to the information on this site. http://forum.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2370240#Post2370240

Which or DrH's books have you read? We usually recommend Surviving an Affair(SAA) as the first one to read. Then His Needs Her Needs(HNHN) and Love Busters(LB).

Welcome and I am sorry that you are here.

Yes, it can recover despite multiple affairs and a separation.


baffled, welcome to Marriage Builders. And no, you should not trust him again. It was too much trust that led to his affairs in the first place. A better solution than trust would be to set up an affair proof life where he has no more control over females at his office and operates an uber transparent lifestyle where it would be impossible to carry on an affair.

If you are going to try to recover this marriage, I would strongly suggest that you do this with the help of Dr Harley himself and one of his coaches. Yours is a very delicate situation so I would suggest going to the BEST and letting Dr Harley and his staff oversee your recovery and keep your husband in line.

Many of us have gone through the MB program with great success so I would recommend you give that try: online program

REALLY?


Do you think this makes his betrayal less meaningful?

In my opinion, this makes his betrayal WORSE.
More heartless. Not less.

Please, do NOT hang your hat on this suspicious statement, made by a well-seasoned liar/betrayer/adulterer.

Thanks for replying. Wish I'd known about this site years ago! I just finished reading SAA and HNHN and am ready to begin LB. As I said before, I read MANY books in the beginning, but these are the first ones on the subject that I've read in some time. My focus has been on recovering my MIND rather than my marriage - am just now coming off of anti-depressants and backing off counseling. With that said, you'd think after so long that I'd know what I wanted! Of course, it'd be great if we could restore the marriage and family - even though our daughters are grown, the damage has been great. And my health is not good. I'm just 55 and know there's a lot of life yet to live, even with the health issues, but believing in a man who could hurt me so deeply and in so many ways is terrifying. Plus I lose the edge in court if I reconcile and then one of us decides it's not going to work. After reading Dr. Harley's books, I want my daughters to read them just to know how to protect their own marriages because I believe his approach is on base. I really don't think my husband will agree to the 15 hours per wk of one-on-one time as he's already stated that he won't be giving up his 4 days of golf - that probably answers my questions right there. When does he expect to have time to rebuild a marriage?

I agree. while the OW were just gold-digging you-know-whats, he completely used them, too. And again, just thought he could come back home when he was through with his fun and games. I know he is the best of liars, but he wasn't always. He turned into someone I couldn't even recognize - someone I didn't want to know much less be married to. However, while I don't trust him in the least, he does seem to be making positive changes in his life, such as disassociating himself from the group of people who not only condoned his infidelity, but encouraged it. (Boy, you really find out who your friends are!) I could write SEVERAL books on the deceit, pain, and effects of betrayal, but IF there's a chance, should I go through the trauma of an expensive court case, and that's what ours will be, and then see if he's still interested in saving "us," or see what happens if he'll agree to MB?

How do you figure you'll 'lose the edge'?

There are ways that two creative people can fit in UA time without necessarily eliminating pleasurable hobbies or activities. Think about it.
1. He can drop one day of golf
2. You can learn to golf and golf with him
3. Spend the rest of the evening together after golf
4. Spend the day today before golf
5. Spend an entire day together, then a few hours a day after that

Something else to think about: I am a pure, self-admitted golf addict. My H and I probably spend 8-10 hours a week, at least, golfing together. I also golf on a ladies' league, which takes me out of the house one evening a week. Having admitted all that, I think your H is excessive in golfing 4 days a week. He may be using that activity as a means of escaping his 'problems', whatever he thinks those are.

Here's the whole golf 'thing': You shoot your nine- or eighteen-hole game. That takes a few hours. But there's often the socializing afterwards, when you hang at the clubhouse bar with your fellow players and rehash your game. Does he do this, as well? Or does he come home immediately after playing?

He may be more receptive to dropping one or two nights as you recover and things get better between the two of you.

Bottom line...if he will not agree to the type of transparent life and time commitment recommended by Dr. Harley, and MB counsel, then should it be a "no go?' Should the fact that he won't agree be an indication that he's not serious about reconciling?

I can only speak for myself: if my H refused to be totally transparent with me, I would have to go on without him. I couldn't live like that.

If he's not willing to do everything possible to restore your marriage (and the golf thing really does say a lot!), then I'd not risk your advantage in court. That's my humble opinion. He's already shown that he will put up a facade in counseling in order to get what he wants.

I would be afraid that's what he's doing now...trying to convince you to reconcile so that infidelity isn't allowed in court.

If he is serious, perhaps a post-nup can be drawn up, stating that if the marriage fails for any reason other than your own infidelity, you get X, Y, and $$$? I don't know how binding those are, check with a lawyer.

Most states that allow at-fault divorce for infidelity will throw out infidelity as a reason if the couple reconciles after discovery. Reconciliation is usually defined as co-habitation and/or sexual relations. IANAL but I did read this on teh interwebz.

Losing the edge in court - my state is a no-fault state which means we split 50/50. But it is also an "at fault" state meaning that if you can prove that one party is responsible for the deterioration of the marriage, i.e. adulltery, compensation is given in the means of spousal support. After 34 years of marriage during which time I was a stay-at-home mom, and now having serious health issues that will prevent me from working, ANYTHING that will boost my spousal support is important. BUT if there is any form of reconciliation, the adultery charge goes out the window should you later go through with the divorce. The courts look at reconciliation as "forgive and forget." I hope others know the ends and outs of their particular state's parameters on divorce, as NOT doing so can be costly. I agree that he could give up a day of golf, but unfortunately my health prevents me from taking up the sport. Maybe we could find another shared interest.

Ahhh. Thank you, CWMI.

I think you're right and I'd already decided that there would be a substantial financial agreement BEFORE I would consider reconciling. I have been living on the original temporary spousal support assigned me 3 1/2 years ago and under court order not to take out loans, credit cards, sell anything, etc. It has been very difficult, all the while he's been spending money like there's no tomorrow, on himself AND other women. He is VERY money driven, especially when it comes to our settlement, so I'm skeptical of anything he does, including this renewed interest in saving the marriage. However, he, too is having a serious health issue right now, life-threatening, but not life-disabling as mine is. My atty. has always said that we are better off financially if we stay together - but at what cost??

Don't think I can either. Thanks.

I think if he's serious, baffled, then you should be able to express this fear to him about your future and he should be able to put your mind at ease in a legally binding way.

IF he is serious.

Deja vu ~~~> MULAN's husband reincarnation?

I really appreciate all of your responses. People close to me are sick of the whole thing and prefer not to discuss it - haven't even told most of them that my H is even interested in pursuing things, so it's nice to have neutral parties to bounce ideas off of. My husband is actually on a GOLF TRIP to Scotland right now (yes, spending OUR money!) and I want to be armed and ready when he returns!!

That's why I must be a woman warrior!

baffle, if he is not willing to take these steps to change, then you will be damning yourself to a life of hell anyway. If he won't do it, you are better off without him. Adultery is about as abusive as it gets, and you will suffer emotionally and physically if he doesn't change.