Stream is here

Click the "live program" link between 1 and 2pm central time. After that the show is replayed every hour for the next 23 through the "rebroadcast" link.

I stream the station through winamp - but I'm not sure what other programs will play it as well.

Hope that helps.

IMHO you WON'T get a restraining order unless something has happened. Just because you THINK something might happen or you don't LIKE your children being around OM is not grounds for a TRO.


However... you CAN get a TRO (the T is for temporary) if you were to file for divorce. Most divorce/custody statutes provide for provisional standard language about members of the opposite sex while the divorce is pending and until everything is resolved. Sometimes that language can carry over to the final order.

This should not stop you however from going foward with getting tough on Honey. You're going to end up exactly like Help says if you don't get proactive ASAP.

princessmeggy writes,


Thanks for writing princessmeggy. It's good to hear from you again.

My Giver wants to reason woo and reason with Honey. I want to invite her to go to the theater, which she loves. I want to explain to her what I've learned about the necessities for a great marriage. And I want to apologize for committing LB's, mostly AO and DJ, when I told her that the OM was not to be around our kids.

But my Taker realizes that Honey has rejected each and every one of my entreaties since I've been in Plan A. She choked up and shed a tear when I made my we-can-still-have-a-great-marriage speech. But that's it. She cares so little about me that she has the OM, who abandoned his wife and two teenage kids in another state, around DD3 and DD1.5. She's nuts. Or should I say, still lost in the fog.

Yes, I plan to go to Plan B. In fact, I hope to meet tonight with another couple who could serve as our IM. Getting tougher with Honey is the best course. I understand that, even if my Giver dislikes it.

But honestly, I am wary of filing for custody of the kids for the following reasons:

1. Our kids are with Honey 4.5 days out of the week and have done so for almost 11 months. Under Virginia and D.C. law, I can't return them to the marital home. The marital home is Honey's apartment.

2. My lawyer said that custody would cost $10k-$12k. I don't have that kind of money. How could I raise it?

3. A custody action, imho, would turn into a nasty, protracted brawl, one not conducive to marital reconciliation.

However, the above assumptions and assertions may well be misplace and wrong. Bring out your 2x4's. I can take it.

I have a scheduled talk on the radio tomorrow with Dr. H. I'll hear what he has to say.

-----------------------------------
Me: BH, 39 (and no longer jobless; just broke)
Her: WW, 33
Never lived together
Married 6 years; together 10 years
2 young kids (DD3 and DD1.5)
Her EA: Fall '08
She moves out of our home: Fall '09
D-day: 01/22/10
D-day #2: 06/28/10
Exposed to 12 of my WW's and the OM's friends and family members plus all of my immediate family members and some extended family
In plan A at Dr. Bill Harley's advice since May '10

Man, Michael, I have been following this for quite some time and based on the wealth of knowledge I have gleaned from the wise people on this board (and my own personal experience), I would offer the following opinion on your points:

2. My lawyer said that custody would cost $10k-$12k. I don't have that kind of money. How could I raise it?
Some attorneys will work with you on payment plans. I would stretch myself (my financial position) to do this. Custody is something you want to pursue now. Not have to go back later and try to alter.

3. A custody action, imho, would turn into a nasty, protracted brawl, one not conducive to marital reconciliation.
I am not as educated on the MB concepts, but offer (perhaps of some value) outsider's opinion: I don't see reconciliation occurring. She has made that pretty clear in her words. I am suspicious of her actions that make you think there is hope. I see it more as a means to get where she wants to go -- the end of your marriage.

Take it with a grain of salt. Just an opinion. Hope is never a bad thing in itself; just remember to be 'cautiously guarded' with your heart.

any idea where (timepoint) in the rebroadcast where MJ's section is? I want to scan to that section...

panafed writes,

You might be right. She might not want to reconcile.

Still, Dr Harley says I need to stick to Plan A; Mrs. Harley added that I should find a support group to reduce my intensity and anger. He said the OM might show his true colors to Honey and that I should be ready when he does.

I appeared on the first half hour of the show; the show should play throughout the wekend.

As I am at work, I can't write too long. More to come.

---------------------------------
Me: BH, 39 (and no longer jobless; just broke)
Her: WW, 33
Never lived together
Married 6 years; together 10 years
2 young kids (DD3 and DD1.5)
Her EA: Fall '08
She moves out of our home: Fall '09
D-day: 01/22/10
D-day #2: 06/28/10
Exposed to 12 of my WW's and the OM's friends and family members plus all of my immediate family members and some extended family
In plan A at Dr. Bill Harley's advice since May '10

Michael;

Of course the Harleys are the experts, I am merely a layman. But my instinct, and again from my super-limited perspective of your exact situation, is that if the OM does show his true colors, and if Honey then did come back to you, it would only be until she met another OM.... She wants out; the OM is simply the guy who was there. There is nothing special about him, in fact, as you have shown, he is a dirtbag. I think she wants out, is co-dependent, and will latch onto another if she ditches the current OM. Her 'playing nice' with you is a means to get what she wants -- termination of your marriage. I think if Honey is ever to really realize just how kind and loving you are it will take several relationships with multiple OMs to see that they are the type of guys who are using her like the current OM is. What kind of scum would date a married woman, and willingly participate in breaking up a family? (answer: the worst kind).

Please don't let me words be anything more than just another person offering an opinion. I just know that I care about you. You appear to be a kind, caring person who has been crushed. I've been there, can feel your pain. My take now is regarding your daughters. Since you know Honey is taking this destructive path in ther life, your primary mission is to protect your daughters from 'learning through observing her' as much as possible. Best case scenario: you get 50% custody and they grow up seeing you being the 'right' kind of person. When they get older, they will understand what really happened.

panafed writes,


There is truth in your statements. Honey is co-dependent; she bought and read books on co-dependency, as her father was an alcoholic until the moment she was born; the OM is the worst kind of person, which is to say someone who acts diabolically; and Honey may be prone to A's.

That said, Honey can be won over. All it will take are two things: her breaking up with the OM and me getting a chance to apply Dr. Harley's principles toward recover. She can never contact the OM again. We will have to spend 15 hours of undvided time each week. And I need to meet all of her EN's without committing LB's. Read Dr. Harley's Surviving an Affair.

Thanks for the kind words about my character. Please put my family in your prayers. We need all of the help we can get.

---------------------------------
Me: BH, 39 (and no longer jobless; just broke)
Her: WW, 33
Never lived together
Married 6 years; together 10 years
2 young kids (DD3 and DD1.5)
Her EA: Fall '08
She moves out of our home: Fall '09
D-day: 01/22/10
D-day #2: 06/28/10
Exposed to 12 of my WW's and the OM's friends and family members plus all of my immediate family members and some extended family
In plan A at Dr. Bill Harley's advice since May '10

Hi MJ,

Wow, has been a busy last few days for me - long hours yesterday and today cleaning including the oven.

Thank you for your comment on my story about my son. I just have not been able to update thru today, but yes maybe I should move that thread. I will be in a better position tomorrow to do that.

MJ, my thought is to go to Plan B asap. If you have 'schoolbus' on here advising you, well from what I have seen she does not comment that much, but since she did, I would listen with an eager ear.

Just read, listen, and do the best you can. Your WW is Not the enemy, but right now she is acting very arrogant, and very sleazy.

Take care MJ and thanks,

Tom

Hi MJ.

First of all I want to say that I am glad you are still here. As you have probably sumrmized from your time on here so many BS's, especially BH's, appear, state their case, and then ride into the sunset. Have you wondered what ever became of them, their marriages, and their kids? You are still here and that is good.

Did you attempt to have a face to face with your IL's? And, if so how did it go? I think right now you are partly feeling the lask of support.

MJ, today I am looking forward to viewing some NFL games on opening Sunday. Ya know what, some of those teams are going to lose today simply because the head coach deviated from his game plan unnecessarily. Like MN the other night in abandoning the run and attempting to rely on a codger for QB! You seem to be deviating from yours now as well. MJ, I have a daughter, and she is doing well, but I would not want her around a POSOM whether she was age 3.0 or age 27.0. And, I think that daughters look up to dads to protect them from whoever - a predator, a WW, or simply natural disaster.

I think maybe that the talk about co-dependency sort of turned your head for awhile. Imho, there is not such a thing as co-dependency. It is not a disease, a condition, or a mindset. It is an excuse. I am a recovering alcoholic, and I have heard, discussed, and thought about this term for quite awhile. It is an influence of one person on another more than anything else. Early in my recovery my wife told the counselor we were going to for family aftercare that this concept was BS, and that the reason she stayed was hope, not co-dependency. Your W is not pre-programmed or conditioned to have an affair and expose your daughters to another 'dad'. She has the free-will and the option every hour of every day to elect to honor her family, not to elect to degrade them, or herself.

MJ, you need to forget about this as an excuse, and go back and listen again to what 'helpthelostdads' and others here are telling you. You are deviating from your game plan.

Good luck to you, but man, if you do not fight I can assure you that you will wake up one morning when you are age 45 and wonder 'wa happened'.

Just take care and prayers,

Tom

Tom2010 writes,


This was my thought too. Most commenters, including the inimitable schoolbus, have advised me to go to Plan B. Doing so makes sense to me. Honey is disrespectful and arrogant. I hate our sitch, not least because the OM is King Sleazy.

But then on Friday I talked with Dr. Harley himself on his radio show. To my surprise, he did not advise going to Plan B. "Keep on doing what you're doing," he said. "If and when she breaks off with this guy, be there for her." However, Dr. H cautioned that Plan B may be in my future. His message was to go to Plan A as long as possible. If memory serves, Steve Harley recommended that SickofLimbo stick with Plan A longer than he expected and perhaps wanted.

I'm caught in the thorns of a dilemma. Stick with Plan A and annoy most of the commenters, whose support and advice I need. Go to Plan B and act counter to the man whose books, articles, and radio show I admire. For now, I'm sticking with Plan A. I may be doing the wrong thing, but if my marriage ends, it won't be for a lack of sage advice and action.

For those interested in listening to my appearance, follow the link and click on the first two segments (091010_A.mp3 and 091010_B.mp3) http://richwith.com/mb/radio/09-14-10/


---------------------------------
Me: BH, 39 (and no longer jobless; just broke)
Her: WW, 33
Never lived together
Married 6 years; together 10 years
2 young kids (DD3 and DD1.5)
Her EA: Fall '08
She moves out of our home: Fall '09
D-day: 01/22/10
D-day #2: 06/28/10
Exposed to 12 of my WW's and the OM's friends and family members plus all of my immediate family members and some extended family
In plan A at Dr. Bill Harley's advice since May '10

Hi MJ,

My hat off to you that you have been consulting the DDR's Harley. I would just humbly suggest to you to not let yourself be at all conflicted between any of comments from any of the people here and the professionals - i.e., the Harley's. None of the members here have talked to you in person, so it is extremely difficult for anyone to give advice online despite their personal experience.

I am just curious tho as to how you do a PLan A if you two are separated. I think this would be valuable information, not only for you, but for some others here.

Right now god my back is hurting. No not looking for any sympathy but this is my time to clean the condo - the fall - and I feel I am not as young as I thing I am..*s*

Keep trudging MJ, I feel you can come out of this with your scalp still on and even more..

Tom

Tom,

Thanks for your support and advice. I look forward to reading your thread every day; your references to the NFL and movies from the '60s always bring a smile to my face.

I will keep trudging. Don't worry. I'm not giving up on saving my family and marriage. The only things I worry about and regret are two things: my previous mistakes in our marriage, such as working on a Saturday morning in our basement when Honey took care of our girls upstairs; and not having the best strategy for winning her back.

You write,


This is a good question. I don't have a great answer. My plan has been twofold: Eliminate my obvious LB's; and fulfill whatever EN's I can.

In the latter case, I have called Honey four or five times a week to talk, mostly about the kids; give her gifts, write letters to her, and tell her our marriage can still be great. Lately, I have attempted to be more thoughtful with Honey.

Next time I see her, I plan to ask her to go to see a Shakespeare play in the city. She will likely say no, but at least I will have planted a seed.

---------------------------------
Me: BH, 39 (and no longer jobless; just broke)
Her: WW, 33
Never lived together
Married 6 years; together 10 years
2 young kids (DD3 and DD1.5)
Her EA: Fall '08
She moves out of our home: Fall '09
D-day: 01/22/10
D-day #2: 06/28/10
Exposed to 12 of my WW's and the OM's friends and family members plus all of my immediate family members and some extended family
In plan A at Dr. Bill Harley's advice since May '10

By the way, here was my question for Dr. Harley.


---------------------------------
Me: BH, 39 (and no longer jobless; just broke)
Her: WW, 33
Never lived together
Married 6 years; together 10 years
2 young kids (DD3 and DD1.5)
Her EA: Fall '08
She moves out of our home: Fall '09
D-day: 01/22/10
D-day #2: 06/28/10
Exposed to 12 of my WW's and the OM's friends and family members plus all of my immediate family members and some extended family
In plan A at Dr. Bill Harley's advice since May '10

On his show Friday, Dr. Harley advised me to wait until my wife breaks off her A with the OM. In SAA, he noted, Sue returned to John because Greg dumped her for another woman. Greg considered Sue to be too depressed and complained too much about missing her kids. This got me thinking.

Now I have a question for former WW's and any OM's. Other than exposure, what caused you to break off your A and return to your spouse?

---------------------------------
Me: BH, 39 (and no longer jobless; just broke)
Her: WW, 33
Never lived together
Married 6 years; together 10 years
2 young kids (DD3 and DD1.5)
Her EA: Fall '08
She moves out of our home: Fall '09
D-day: 01/22/10
D-day #2: 06/28/10
Exposed to 12 of my WW's and the OM's friends and family members plus all of my immediate family members and some extended family
In plan A at Dr. Bill Harley's advice since May '10

well I am not an OM (nor a WW for that matter), so I can offer no first hand experience. But I would venture to say that at or near the top of the list of reasons they might end their affair is the shocking reality that a divorce would mean significantly less time with their kids! Not the reason you want to play out (like her coming back because she realized her true love for you), but a reason nevertheless. The good thing is that regardless of reason, if she comes back you have time to develop an affair-proof marriage.

I'm in a strange form of Plan A. I still love Honey and am reading "The Love Dare" to learn how to show her my love. For example, I calmly asked her on Saturday to see a Shakespeare show downtown and sent her a humorous email. And I go days without communicating with her, though I still want to communicate with her. So following the advice of Dr. H, I am being a loving, strong, patient husband.

Yet Honey has not responded to any of my efforts. On Saturday, she rejected my offer to go out, saying it under her breath and walking away from me. And the last three days, she has not returned my call or email.

Until proven otherwise, I will assume she is lost in the fog. I don't know what else it could be. Your comments of our sitch are welcome.

---------------------------------
Me: BH, 39 (and no longer jobless; just broke)
Her: WW, 33
Never lived together
Married 6 years; together 10 years
2 young kids (DD3 and DD1.5)
Her EA: Fall '08
She moves out of our home: Fall '09
D-day: 01/22/10
D-day #2: 06/28/10
Exposed to 12 of my WW's and the OM's friends and family members plus all of my immediate family members and some extended family
In plan A at Dr. Bill Harley's advice since May '10

I forgot to mention something in my post yesterday: Honey can file for D unilaterally on October 18. This fact likely explains her deeper emotional distance from me. But it also offers hope for our marriage. Would she not want to get a commitment from the OM to marry her before she files?

My assumption is that the OM will not commit to her, that they will fight, and this could blow up their A. If anyone has experienced or heard about this sitch, I would be interested in hearing your thoughts.
---------------------------------
Me: BH, 39 (and no longer jobless; just broke)
Her: WW, 33
Never lived together
Married 6 years; together 10 years
2 young kids (DD3 and DD1.5)
Her EA: Fall '08
She moves out of our home: Fall '09
D-day: 01/22/10
D-day #2: 06/28/10
Exposed to 12 of my WW's and the OM's friends and family members plus all of my immediate family members and some extended family
In plan A at Dr. Bill Harley's advice since May '10

Honestly, I say it doesn't matter. You still have an active A so you stick to YOUR plans regardless of what Honey is doing. Plan A and then Plan B. That's it, that's all. There is no, "If I do this, this will happen. When they do this, this will happen." Stick to your plans. If you follow along with what Honey is doing, you are going to follow her down a pit of despair. Just focus on YOUR plans and move forward. Don't get stuck in the wayward quicksand.

Scotland,

Thanks for the encouragement. I am still in Plan A and moving forward, despite the fact that all my friends and family members want me to go to Plan FU or a modified Plan B.

Now I need to stick to my guns when I ask Honey that I need another half day with the kids. I pay half the costs of our childcare; I should get half the time with our girls. I'm feeling strong and confident, so I'm ready for any fog babble or verbal insults.

Sick of Limbo wrote that his WW crashed their car this weekend. Well, my WW had her beloved laptop computer stolen. Yep, someone broke into her apartment and took her computer, which she bought for about a $1,000 a month before she moved out. This was the computer that she used to communicate with her coworker lover. But it was also the computer that she stored pictures of our girls, especially DD1.5.

The theft seemed to lift some of Honey's fog. The night after it happened, she talked with me half an hour while picking up our girls. She hadn't talked to me that long in months. She was like her old self -- sweet, understanding, generous. She offered to let me take DD3 out on Sundays, when she has her.

However, Honey was not like her old self enough. I mentioned at the end of our talk about having a great marriage. She said, "There's not much to talk about." She also rejected my attempt to hug her after telling me about the theft.

All I did was to listen to her, talk about how I would like our girls to be raised, and project empathy for her sitch. I called her later that night to check in again. I wanted to be a loving, strong, patient husband. Yet I don't think that meeting her immediate EN's is possible; she's still too distant from me and doesn't fully respect me. So I didn't call her last night.

---------------------------------
Me: BH, 39 (and no longer jobless; just broke)
Her: WW, 33
Never lived together
Married 6 years; together 10 years
2 young kids (DD3 and DD1.5)
Her EA: Fall '08
She moves out of our home: Fall '09
D-day: 01/22/10
D-day #2: 06/28/10
Exposed to 12 of my WW's and the OM's friends and family members plus all of my immediate family members and some extended family
In plan A at Dr. Bill Harley's advice since May '10