Ever since last weeks thread on opposite-sex friendships, I've been wondering about the trials of those who are involved in an emotional affair vs. those in a physical affair (the deep thoughts from Sheba are probably wearing off on me).<P>In a physical affair, the transgression is clear. The marriage vow is obviously broken. From what I can tell, the betrayer knows what they are doing is wrong. It all started as an emotional affair being "just friends". Soon, the attraction grew. Comparisons to the spouse are made. A slight touch, a kiss on the cheek, gazing in one another's eyes, confidences shared, the lack of passion in their life pushes them over the edge. It seems, for the most part, the betrayer eventually comes clean with the affair. They are either confronted and confess or they are filled with such guilt and shame that they confess on their own. I think the emotional bond between the two offending parties becomes stronger at first. They are caught up in the emotional high. You start hearing statements like "The OM/OW is a far better lover than my mate." Sex between the husband and wife can not compare. Why? IMHO, the sex is viewed as greater because it's the forbidden fruit. Real intimacy has not entered the picture yet, so each adulterer is seeing only the "best" of the other. They don't know one another's faults. The betrayed is obviously crushed when this comes to light. Awful, absolutely awful.<P>The transgression in an emotional affair is much more nebulous. Where is the line drawn exactly? Is it really just a good friendship or is it an emotional affair? I think the betrayer honestly does not believe they are putting their marriage at risk and do not even view their relationship as an affair because sex did not take place. They hide behind the "just friends" label. They sneak around behind their spouses back to meet for lunches or dinners to "just talk". Email accounts and phone calls are kept secret because their spouse would "take it the wrong way" or they would "get the wrong idea". Not all emotional affairs end up being physical ones. The damage they cause is no less destructive. I think many are left with "If only we knew each other before we met or spouse" type questions. The betrayer is often left feeling they are "stuck" with their spouse. Confrontations are usually met with hostility. The confronting spouse doesn't "trust" them. The confronting spouse is "controlling", "possessive", and "jealous". The spouse who is confronted is usually resentful of the confronting spouse. They respond with "nothing is going on, we're just friends". Or "why do you deny me having friends?" Or "Why don't you trust me?" I'm sure there are many more one liners. <P>Breaking the bond in either case is a very difficult undertaking. The betrayed can do all they can to "win" back their spouse, but the betrayer has to do two things on their own. Number one, they have to want to come back to the marriage. And number two, they have to be the one to end the relationship with the OP. <P>I think I have newfound admiration and sympathy for those involved in emotional affairs. Their task is a difficult one. For the most part, the betrayer doesn't even know they are in an affair or do they know the tremendous pain they are causing in their marriage. The sad part is emotional affairs can go on for years. Slowly eroding a marriage bit by bit. After all, they are "just friends".<P>Emotional and physical affairs are a horrible cancer in any marriage. My prayers are with all of you as you fight this disease in your marriages. <P>When it comes to physical affairs vs. emotional affairs there are no winners.<P>SHA<P>------------------<BR>There is only one happiness in life, to love and be loved. <P>

You are right on the money on this!<P>My affair was emotional, then turned physical, we confessed because of the guilt, OM moved out and we had plans to be together. We went back to emotional affair until that time, or just being friends. After 5 months his wife would not give him a divorce, so he moved back to proved to her it would not work. Instead, now he feels obligated. I think this is the best thing that could have happened to me and my marriage. But I will tell you, the physical affair was much easier to give up than the emotional part. <P>I know this is not exactly what you were referring to, but emotional affairs are indeed just as hard if not harder to resist and overcome. Thanks for the insight.

Boy do you hit home. I'm dealing with both. WHile discovering the emotional affair, I uncovered a physical affair from a few months before. The sexual affair is easier for some reason for me to cope with. The EA .. is still so hard. He works with her and it supposedly has ended, but there is still the unknown of her I know in his mind. I found email and Icq messages that hurt far deeper than the sexual affair. She knows thigns about me that my best friend didn't know, she knows things about our marriage that i didn't know. It hurts so to think of them at work passing in the hall or the innocent "heys" in his Icq at work. Yes I am nosy and go digging. I am married to a computer programmer who thought he could hide anything from me who never went to college. I know more about digging out histories than I ever dreamed I could learn. Anyway .. I know the physical affairs hurt and I do think of that, but not of the sex, just that he lied to me bold faced!!! I held him on a platform I guess. I never dreamed ..<BR>The pain is so great for me. I wish sometimes I could just go to sleep.<P><P>------------------<BR>Mater<P>

SHA...good musings and right on target too. My H's affair was emotional and there were times I wish it had been more because, for me, it would have been black and white. With an EA there's so much ambiguity and the betrayed actually questions her "right" to call it an affair.<P>But now I am glad I'm where I am and that it wasn't more than what it was.<P>------------------<BR>Joan <P>"Turn your wounds into wisdom..." That really cool black gal who was on Oprah all summer.<BR>

Amen to that, SHA.<P>Where do you draw the line between a friendship and an emotional affair? I have no idea. Perhaps it's the spouse's comfort level, but if the spouse is insecure, perhaps NO friendships would be acceptable.<P>Why is it that my H's friendship with Woman A was not a problem for me but Woman B was? A few reasons: <P>1) Woman A was always nice to me, Woman B treated me as if I didn't exist, or if I did, I was to be gotten out of the way at the earliest opportunity<P>2) More contact via E-mail and phone with Woman B<P>3) Secretiveness about friendship with Woman B<P>4) Brought up Woman B more in conversation.<P>Because we think of "affair" in our culture as meaning sex, the concept of "emotional affair" is alien to most people -- including those involved in them. If the people involved in them would realize that if they just couldn't possibly give up the friendship, it's probably more than a friendship, it might be easier for the other spouse. As it is, those of us with spouses involved in emotional affairs are left to sputter incoherently, while the perpetrators think we're crazy.

SHA,<P>You nailed this one. I wish I had H's new e-mail address so I could send this to him right now. Since I don't, I'm going to print it out & leave it on his doorstep. <P>Thank you for putting so elequently into words the thoughts that keep running around in my head.<P>God Bless,<BR>Butterfly<P><p>[This message has been edited by Butterfly (edited October 26, 1999).]

SHA - Like the other posters, I too think you're right on target, my friend, especially about physical affairs. I'd just add one thing. IMHO, I think "purely emotional affairs" are mostly a myth used by betrayers to minimize their betrayal. I think that, in most cases, if the strong feelings that the betrayer and the OP have for each other are really mutual, at some point the affair IS going to "get physical." (Or, to my way of thinking, is going to BECOME a real affair.) That's just the way eros seems to work.<P>Let me give you an example of a close friendship of mine with a (married) woman while I was still married to my 1st W and before we separated. This woman and I saw each other quite a lot for maybe a year, and clearly there was a mutual attraction. (There certainly was for me and I think for her too.) We had many lunch dates and, on several occasions, spent the whole day together, etc. Now and again we talked about what was happening with us but never came to any solid conclusions. On a couple of occasions we had real opportunities to get physical but then ended up not doing anything, not even kissing. I think, in part, this was because we did respect each others' marriages and our own. I don't consider this to have been a real affair, not even an "emotional" one and, on top of everything else, my 1st W did know about this frienship. (This was while she was cheating on ME, physically and every other way, like crazy.)<P>Also, my W has several male friends that I know about who sign their emails to her with "love" and she signs hers to them that way. This really doesn't bother me because I know about them and am reasonably sure that they ARE just old friends. She even spent the day with one a couple of months ago, including going to his house after their lunch date for wine and conversation. But I never worried that anything more was going on because she TOLD me about it. That's what I think makes the difference. If you feel you have to sneak around and not tell your spouse about a relationship, then it starts looking like an affair. But I think this kind of sneaking around usually lands people in the sack together eventually.<P>Regards and blessings,<P>--Wex

SHA -- Boy did you state it just like it is!<P>My W was/is having an emotional affair with a "friend", but doesn't see it as such. Claims I just don't understand that it's only a "friendship". Claims that she can discuss things with him that she cannot discuss with her female friends. (Why can't she discuss them with me, I don't know.)<BR>Claims that there is nothing sexual, although I have my doubts. Phone calls, e-mails, surprise visits -- all too much, all too fishy. <P>Still doesn't understand why I'm ticked, and thinks that I'm over-reacting, that I've become controlling, that I'm being unreasonable, anti-social, rude, etc. She's even said: "He's really a nice guy. I should get to know him.<P>My W is also REAL upset that I also destoyed her relationship with her "best friend" -- OM's wife! Sometimes you just can't win!!!!<P>My personal challenge is not only to get W to break off from OM, but she MUST cut off ties with her "best friend". I also don't understand how her "best friend" has not questioned the relationship between her H and my W. (God, they even traveled to Vegas together - alone! Where does the emotional end and the physical begin!?) I feel like I'm competeing for my W's time and attention.<BR>15+ years of marriage, 2 years of suspected emotional affair, and it feels no closer to fixing than when I first suspected problems.<P>The first part of the challenge, though, is getting everyone to recongnize what an emotional affair is and how it plants the evil seed!<P>If it was physical, it would be MUCH easier and MUCH obvious to all parties. But, then, if it was easier, we wouldn't have a need for websites like these.

SHA,<BR> My w is having an emotional affair with the om. It became physical for a short time and probably still would be if the om lived in this country. She explains the sex as a "summer fling" and that it wasn't important to her. I can deal with that. But the fact that she shares herself (still) emotionally with him while withdrawing from me is very difficult for me to deal with. When it was first was discovered, she lied and told me it was a one night stand. I dealt with that a lot better than when I found out it was a longterm EA.<P>dzrt<BR>

DUDE!!! I gotta hand it to ya. You pegged it. My EA was pretty much as you described. I didn't even really think it was an affair at all for quite awhile. Yow. Good post! I've had other opposite sex friendships, but I will never again think of them in the same way. In a way, that's kinda sad. But better in the long run.<P>--andy

SHA:<P>Over many years I had a number of affairs (not enough fingers and toes to count them on) and they have always begun and ended the same way. It was a friendship and then an emotional involvement, then almost an emotional dependence, and finally a full blown sexual relationship. I must admit that the emotional phase was in fact the best. That feeling of being "in love" is just indescribable. It certainly makes you do stupid things. However, once you are in the "in love" phase, sex is the only option. Then the sex is super for a while and all of a sudden you start dealing with the OW just like you do with your W and soon there is little difference. Eventually, you both wake up and see that you aren't going anywhere and you part from one another. <P>The shortest affair I had was probably the most intense and it only lasted three months and only one slightly sexual episode, but it was enough to last a lifetime. BTW it was the only one I got caught at. The longest one lasted nearly twenty years on and off (always went back to her in between the others) We had sex about three times a week for the first 12 years and then after that we mellowed until finally, we are the very best of friends but haven't had sex in a couple of years. I've had two other relationships in that time.<P>Now here is the stupid part: I never lost the love I had for my wife (although we hardly ever had any sex) and I never wanted to leave her. All my OW knew and accepted that. Some of them were very good friends with my W and they understood my needs. She unwittingly always told them "everything". <P>I guess the only saving grace I had was that I never lied to the OW about anything and I was fortunate enough that I kept my affairs (pardon the pun) from my wife. That is until two years ago when the stuff hit the fan and I finally realized what a real jerk I had been all those years. So now I'm in serious marriage repair mode. At least my W is sticking with me for now so I have a chance, anyway.<P>I am finished with my ways and I know I can now go on with my W and not need anyone else. I'm even saying goodbye to my "best" friend, after twenty years.<P>Endless<p>[This message has been edited by Endless (edited October 26, 1999).]

Wex...yup, I think you're right...an EA WILL turn physical. H and OW decided together not to go there and H felt I should have been "proud" or "grateful" of him that he was "wise" enough to decide that. Give me a break!<P>------------------<BR>Joan <P>"Turn your wounds into wisdom..." That really cool black gal who was on Oprah all summer.<BR>

SHA, Yes the EA is on target. I had a brief one (almost 3 months long) about 2 years ago. It ended because OM wanted it to turn physical. In my heart of hearts, I knew I was not inlove with him, and was inlove with my H so I turned him down twice. After that, it ended for us both. <P>I gotta say - I had NO IDEA until my H's current affair came out that I actually had an affair! I just thought of it as infatuation. BUT, I KNEW it was wrong:<P>I knew my H knew something was "wrong" between us and I didn't say or do anything to clear the air. I knew I was distancing myself from H, but couldn't seem to stop myself from doing it. I also knew my H could sense my distancing and was hurt, but I did nothing to address that, either. I knew I was dangerously close to falling into a physical relationship with the OM if things kept escalating between us, yet I kept moving forward. <P>Only when OM pressed me for sex and I refused did things come to a screeching halt between us. Thank God, because I sure was making a grand mess of things.<P>Once it was over, I really missed all the care and concern he gave me at a time when I needed it after Dad's stroke, and H wasn't there for me. NO EXCUSE. I know the EA was WRONG, because it took away from my H and our marriage what was rightfully his - my time, energy and focus. The OM was getting it all during that time.<P>Now, 2 years later my H is in an 8 month physical affair. He continues despite my strong desire to make our marriage better. Funny thing, before all the crises we have endure the past 2 years, we had a FANTASTIC marriage. It seems so far away, such a long time ago.... I really want that back - BADLY!<P>Roll Me Away<BR>

My H still claims he never had sex with OW. But he doesn't deny it was an affair (involved kissing and plenty else) and he was in love with her. <P>Sometimes I think all this would have resolved itself a lot sooner if he just went ahead and had sex with her. The relationship never had the chance to get stale. Instead she is still the 'forbidden fruit' even though he broke it off 5 months ago. <P>This is, of course, assuming he is telling the truth, about which I have serious doubts.

Sir Hurts Alot -- Wow, you really have nailed this down.<P>From my perspective, either type of affair is just as devastating. I found out about my W's Emotional/Internet Affairs a couple months before I found out about her physical affair.<P>I was absolutely destroyed by the Emotional/Internet Affairs.<P>When I found out about the physical affair, I honestly didn't know if I would be willing to live through it. I seriously thought about suicide then.<P>There were a couple of little "extras" about the physical affair which made it all the harder for me to deal with, but that is another story. When we started trying to rebuild, I asked her what would have happened if one of her Emotional/Internet Affairs had shown up at our house. She told me that she didn't know if she would have slept with them or not. These Emotional/Internet Affairs happened while we were supposedly rebuilding our marriage.<P>Bottom line, they are both equally devastating.<P>God Bless

SHA,<BR>I agree with what you have said, Once again I think you are on the money. I think this may be true for what my W is going through right now. She has a "friend" that she feels really close to and that is helping her get through this. She confides in him with what is going on because he has gone through a divorce. This is the most painful thing for me right now, Not the fact of her past affair but her continuing relationship with another man. I feel like she is having an Emotional affair with him right now, She has told me that it is not physical. But we all know how friends can get too friendly. From what she is telling me, she is spending alot of time with him. <P>I have tried to caution her but she won't listen and tells me that I have nothing to worry about. I can only wish that she would read this and understand the danger involved.<BR><P>------------------<BR>Rutger......One day at a time.<P><BR>

I wanted to thank all of you for your comments and thoughts on this thread. I continue to try and sort all these things out in my mind. <P>We are fighting the same enemy. And the more we know about the enemy the better we can do battle.<P>Thanks again,<P>SHA

Like President Bill said when questioned in court about Monica, "Define sex." I would say that if a relationship even gets to the kissing stage (in the sense of "making out," not friendly, affectionate pecks, it's become a physical affair even if the two of you back away from the heavier sexual stuff. "Internet sex" also qualifies, when you write "dirty" emails to each other, yup. Also phone sex even though, in these cases, there's no actual physical contact. Also think that if you feel you have to conceal your friendship with OP from your spouse (for whatever reason) then it's either an affair or mighty close.<P>Annie, joanie - I don't know. If my W told me she had or is having an emotional affair, I don't think I'd believe her. This is what I'm saying. I think as part of their denial syndrome, betrayers if FORCED to admit their affair, will try and minimize it by saying it was "just an emotional affair." My suspicion (just a suspicion, no proof) is, that in most cases, this is simply more lying on their part.<P>SHA - Great thread you started here, bro! Some really interesting stories here. It's making me think what is and what isn't. R & B,<P>--Wex

Physical affairs can devistate the betrayed person by putting the images of the spouse and the OP in their mind and making them live through the affair over and over again.<BR>I close my eyes and "see" them together. I want to throw up every time I do. <BR>Emotional affairs devistate because the bond that is created between them is so hurtful. The trust,love, faith, and hope that you placed in your spouse has been thrown out the window because now someone else is fulfilling those emotional needs. Both forms of betrayal are crippling to the betrayed.<P>------------------<BR>That Which does not kill us makes us stronger.<P>