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Quote:
Folks who want to talk about other resources to newcomers are free to set up their own forum to do exactly that. But they shouldn't expect to come to Dr Harley's board and confuse newcomers with other resources that he doesn't endorse. The purpose of this board is Marriage Builders.


Absolutely.

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I can't imagine I would have an entitlement to go to the Weight Watchers forum and preach Atkins. It is just astonishing to me that anyone would believe they should be permitted to do the same here. crazy


This made me LOL! Good analogy ML, I completely agree.


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Originally Posted By: Vittoria

I agree with the fact that when distraught newbies come, it can be confusing to discuss other programs and a different philosophy for busting up an A.
That would be very confusing to reference the articles here and then advise different.
The exception would be if a poster is counseling with the Harley team.
What I mean by this is that the Harley's/coaches know the finer details of a situation (details that are not published on a public forum) and tailor the plan accordingly.


Vittoria, this is all I am saying. I have never seen a problem discussing other marriage books/programs. I think it is good to discuss the ins and outs of all of them. In that aspect, I think POV's are certainly valuable. It is just when someone substitutes their own opinion for Dr Harley's when trying to help a newcomer that the problem comes in.

I get my back up when someone is in a struggling marriage and someone refers them to something else. It makes it hard for those of us who are trying to help because the focus shifts from getting them the help they need.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

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A good example of this would be when someone suggests the "180 Plan" instead of a pure Plan A or B.


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In a sense now, I am homeless. For the home, the place of refuge, solitude, love-where my husband lived-no longer exists. Joyce Carolyn Oates, A Widow's Story
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Originally Posted By: princessmeggy
A good example of this would be when someone suggests the "180 Plan" instead of a pure Plan A or B.


Agree. I had my hands slapped - deservedly - by Mimi years ago for telling a newcomer about the 180. But when I arrived here, the 180 was more discussed than Marriage Builders. It was all about everyone's "opinion" and rarely about Marriage Builders.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

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Originally Posted By: Vittoria
According to Marcos's view, I disrespect Dr. Harley's plan since I find interest in other POV on M.
I actually find it fascinating to hear what other's think. It helps me to broaden my
perspective, to not be so tunnel visioned that my thoughts are what another person's should be, and if they differ then they are simply wrong.


For the record, Markos is interested in other POV, too. He has bought and read more books on marriage and relationships than I can count. We know each others' "Love Language," too.

But this is MARRIAGE BUILDERS. I came here to learn MARRIAGE BUILDERS, and to get support that would encourage me to follow MARRIAGE BUILDERS. It can be quite frustrating and confusing for a newbie to come here with that goal, only to have opposing philosophies thrown at you. It was quite frustrating, indeed, to feel that I, as a newbie, knew more about the basics of Marriage Builders than some of the posters who have been around for years.

The Five Love Languages, while nice, didn't save our marriage. Marriage Builders did.


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Originally Posted By: Prisca

The Five Love Languages, while nice, didn't save our marriage. Marriage Builders did.


It's a great little book, but it's not a plan. I know a couple who read this and said it made their marriage great! We were having trouble and they recommended it to us. We were already reading it, but it didn't have the PLAN we needed. This other couple suggested that if we (well, me) LET GO a bit and get more of a separate life from my H, we could have a great marriage like theirs, too!

Yeah, they're divorced now. The wife was having an affair on all her "ME" time.

ETA: that's in IRL couple, not one from the board. Just to clarify!

Last edited by CWMI; 09/15/10 03:40 PM.

Marriage is the triumph of imagination over intelligence. Second marriage is the triumph of hope over experience.
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Originally Posted By: CWMI
Originally Posted By: Prisca

The Five Love Languages, while nice, didn't save our marriage. Marriage Builders did.


It's a great little book, but it's not a plan. I know a couple who read this and said it made their marriage great! We were having trouble and they recommended it to us. We were already reading it, but it didn't have the PLAN we needed. This other couple suggested that if we (well, me) LET GO a bit and get more of a separate life from my H, we could have a great marriage like theirs, too!

Yeah, they're divorced now. The wife was having an affair on all her "ME" time.

ETA: that's in IRL couple, not one from the board. Just to clarify!


faint Just goes to show, ya never know where a person's really coming from.


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In a sense now, I am homeless. For the home, the place of refuge, solitude, love-where my husband lived-no longer exists. Joyce Carolyn Oates, A Widow's Story
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I honestly don't remember how, but I found MB almost a year ago. My marriage had hit a low point (no affair, but our love banks were dangerously low). We were on edge with each other and feeling hopelessly disconnected. We weren't understanding the other person; where they were coming from, what they wanted, and we didn't know how to FEEL the love again. We both knew the love was there in but couldn't bring it to the fore-front because we were both so hurt and frustrated.

Scotty's story was the first thread I read here. It took me three days but I read every post. I cried and felt pain for her. I was also overwhelmed by the support system on MB. I started reading other threads and all of the FREE information on this site.

The concepts Dr. Harley writes about seem so simple and so basic, but I couldn't see them on my own. Reading SAA threads was a supplement to the MB concepts he posts on here (again, for FREE). It truly helped me to see my husbands POV and recognize what I was doing wrong. It helped me to truly recognize that I could only change myself, so I did. I put the MB program into practice and committed to filling up my husband's love bank. While we've had highs and lows over the last 9 months, the changes I see in us and in him are like night and day. And this is without DH even reading the MB material (although I have mentioned the site before).

It's not right for others to come here and make suggestions that don't follow the MB program guidelines. Like others have said, this said is paid for and managed by Dr. Harley to share his concepts. Mentioning other books is okay if they are presented as supplemental, but the "bible" should be MB books.

I owe Dr. Harley so much more than I will ever be able to repay. I could cry enough tears to fill a swimming pool I feel so much gratitude to him and the material and support he offers here. Just the fact that his concepts are here FREE for anyone to read and learn from tells me he wants to see everyone succeed in their marriage. I have shared this place with friends and strangers alike because I believe in the principles so strongly.

We are ALL so fortunate to be here and I think everyone posting should respect Dr. Harley and his program. Respect those who come here looking for help by guiding them through MB. Teaching MB principles is the best gift we could give a person who needs our help to either improve or recover their marriage. Like Prisca said "The Five Love Languages, while nice, didn't save our marriage. Marriage Builders did."


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Just jumping on this thread to clarify a few issues.

We CAN, always have & DO discuss other marriage programs & books. But PLEASE!!...NOT on a newbies thread or on the thread of a member still struggling with the destruction. PLEASE help them to learn Dr Harley's concepts & principles so they can SEE the diffference & the benefits as they explore other options. And no links. Dr Harley is providing this website for our use FREE so we can learn about HIS program.

And while we are discussing other websites,,PLEASE do not go to other sites and create any problems in the name of MarriageBuilders. WE do NOT want any board wars.

PLEASE email me if you have any further questions and/or concerns.


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Originally Posted By: MelodyLane
Originally Posted By: nikko
i guess i am wondering WHEN this changed?? i remember back in the day we discussed everything....along with mb's we talked about 5 love languages and many other resources....having those discussions never took away from helping people on here.


BUT.... it does take away when someone promotes such a book to a newcomer who is here to learn about Marriage Builders. It muddies the waters because they are entirely different programs. [even though Chapman uses the term "Love Tank" - gee, wonder where he got that?? grin]





my question was when this changed?? i never said to tell newbies to not follow the plan. i enjoyed hearing open and honest opinions. most of the time you realized through these conversations that mb's had a more concrete plan. we also showed a lot more respect to others...in my opinion.


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Originally Posted By: markos
Originally Posted By: nikko
i guess i am wondering WHEN this changed?? i remember back in the day we discussed everything....along with mb's we talked about 5 love languages and many other resources....having those discussions never took away from helping people on here.

i get why the harleys want to promote only mb's....i have no problem with that, i get it. what i dont understand is when it changed and did i miss a posting somewhere that it was no longer allowed to discuss these other sources?


I'm told that it changed when Dr. Harley started managing the board more actively and took a hand in selecting a moderation staff that would enforce the rule you now see posted above:

please keep in mind that the ultimate purpose of this Forum is to discuss and learn Marriage Builders concepts.

I'm guessing there was probably a day when that was not posted.

Anyway, it seems to me nobody ever gets in trouble for comparing and contrasting Marriage Builders to their own ideas and objections, or to other programs, ON THEIR OWN THREAD. I could be wrong.


thank you for trying to answer that. i guess i just feel like i missed some big announcement or something. lol


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thank you Justuss!


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Originally Posted By: nikko




my question was when this changed?? i never said to tell newbies to not follow the plan. i enjoyed hearing open and honest opinions. most of the time you realized through these conversations that mb's had a more concrete plan. we also showed a lot more respect to others...in my opinion.


I guess it started changing over the past year and a half, thankfully. I disagree that hearing about different plans helped a newcomer realise that MB had a more concrete plan. All it did was cause confusion for absolutely no good reason.

I think we show alot more respect NOW. When I arrived, betrayed spouses were routinely attacked by waywards from TOW and this board. You don't see call out threads and attacks on BS's from WS's anymore. You don't see BS' beat up for making "disresectful judgments" when they say anything negative about adultery.

Quote:
i enjoyed hearing open and honest opinions.


Me too. Especially Marriage Builder's honest "opinion" that this board is ultimately for MARRIAGE BUILDERS and if you have another opinion, and it is on a newcomers thread, you oughta keep it to yourself.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

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Even though we might not always understand the edits from the mods, I appreciate so much the more active hand they take.

I still remember very well when I was blatantly and cruelly attacked myself, not only for trying to help a deployed soldier deal with the news of his WW's A and implement MB plans, but also very personally for my own role as a recovered BS. She thought I was "pitiful" for agreeing to reconcile with my dear AJ.

I remember many other attacks on others who mean a lot to me...people who would come on here and try to stir up all kinds of garbage by either viciously attacking established posters or running hurting newbies off.

Whatever struggles or disagreements we have on the board now, I haven't seen that kind of problem to that kind of extent in a long time.


A smooth sea never made a skilled mariner.
~ English proverb



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I also think it started about a year and a half or so ago.

Personally, I like the more focused board. It has helped reduce the trolls. I do recall the one "member" a few years ago who actually came on the boards here and had the nerve to post links to her own marital counseling site. She posed as a betrayed spouse at first, and then its found out that she was actually a counselor looking for Dr. Harley's CLIENTS.

So you can see the dangers that are here. Dr. Harley offers us this forum and his plans for free. I look at other things, and use Dr. Harley's plan as the major framework and concepts.

He calls them BASIC CONCEPTS - I think because they give me the foundations for the marriage.

Other information and knowledge help me fill out the marriage and relationship for my unique situation. For example, a couple of my husband's emotional needs are not on Dr. Harley's list. So, I have to be aware of those, and meet them - I have to know they are not on the list, understand them, and adjust the BASIC CONCEPTS in this regard. Not a major adjust, but a little different from the basics he offers.

I also add information from my religion, because that is something that influences my marriage.

I also add information from my husband's culture, as his cultural background and religious beliefs are not the same as mine, so we must take this into account in our relationship and marriage.


But would a newcomer understand this? No way!


I worked hard to understand the basics, then the larger picture, then the nuances. I worked hard to apply these ideas in my life - all during the most major life crises I had ever faced.

Did I need anybody trying to sell me their "other great ideas" and steer me elsewhere?

Nope. I remember that troll as clear as day. It was upsetting to me, and I wasn't a newbie. I can't imagine what a newbie might have thought.....I would have left and looked somewhere else with less DRAMA. Because I had enough.

I vote (if we are even voting) that I like the Marriage Builders site, I love the MB program and concepts, and that the boards are moderated about as well as I think the owner wants them moderated (and that is HIS VOTE - he owns it!).

Sorry, I didn't really have a vote in the moderation thingy. I don't think I've ever been edited, because for some reason I think I try to

control myself.


Go figure.



Anyway, let's take care of our newbies, respect Dr. Harley's gift to us, and sing


kumbahya. or however you spell it.


SB


Lucky to be where I am, in a safe place to get marriage-related support.
Recovered.
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Our new marriage began that day. Not easily, but it did happen.
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Originally Posted By: schoolbus

I vote (if we are even voting) that I like the Marriage Builders site, I love the MB program and concepts, and that the boards are moderated about as well as I think the owner wants them moderated (and that is HIS VOTE - he owns it!).

Sorry, I didn't really have a vote in the moderation thingy. I don't think I've ever been edited, because for some reason I think I try to

control myself.


Go figure.



Anyway, let's take care of our newbies, respect Dr. Harley's gift to us, and sing


kumbahya. or however you spell it.


SB


I vote we sing "Michael, Row the Boat Ashore." That song makes me cry.
grin


D-Day 2-10-2009
Fully Recovered and Better Than Ever!
Thank you Marriage Builders!

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mel, i have not said to do this to a newcomer...please stop making it seem like that is what i was trying to say. i said i enjoyed hearing open and honest opinions.

when i showed up here i was as broken as anyone. i found a lifeline...marriagebuilders. i read nlearned, posted and learned some more. i even did the phone counseling for as long as i could. i read others threads and i learned from them....and if the discussion was about other resources...i would check them out. what i found was i liked marriagebuilders better. i am a simple person and i didnt get confused at all.

"Me too. Especially Marriage Builder's honest "opinion" that this board is ultimately for MARRIAGE BUILDERS and if you have another opinion, and it is on a newcomers thread, you oughta keep it to yourself."

in my opinion....that is not being respectful mel. again you make it sound like i am on all the newbies threads spouting non mb's things. i haven't and i dont....and i would again appreciate it if you would stop making it sound like i am.


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Originally Posted By: nikko
mel, i have not said to do this to a newcomer...please stop making it seem like that is what i was trying to say. i said i enjoyed hearing open and honest opinions.


And I said I do too. I very much enjoy the honest opinion that Marriage Builders is for the discussion of Marriage Builders. That is open and honest, IMO.

Quote:
and if the discussion was about other resources...i would check them out. what i found was i liked marriagebuilders better. i am a simple person and i didnt get confused at all.


I DID get very confused when I arrived here and so have others. That is why it is important to keep advice focused on Marriage Builders and not every other dog and cat program. That should be a basic expectation to read about Marriage Builders when one comes to Marriage Builders.

Quote:


in my opinion....that is not being respectful mel. again you make it sound like i am on all the newbies threads spouting non mb's things. i haven't and i dont....and i would again appreciate it if you would stop making it sound like i am.


I didn't say any such thing; I'm not aware that you post to newcomers at all. I think it is disrespectful to come to Marriage Builders and disrupt the threads of newcomers with personal philosophies that contradict Marriage Builders.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

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SERIOUSLY? These types of discussions always tend to deteriorate into a fight of wills. There are strong people who are opinionated on these boards and whom ADORE DrH. We are all entitled to our opinions and feelings. The problems come when we are attacking one another on a thread, even a newbie thread(I've been here 10.5 months and I have seen it many MANY times), and try to WIN. All that happens when the discussion changes from the topics to personal attacks and attacks on people's characters is a breakdown of REAL communication. There is NO winner. The boards and this community are the losers when this happens.

Often, bouncing ideas off of many people is a good thing. People have their own experiences and their own voices and each one adds to the conversation when the objective is to improve someone else's life. THAT should be the main goal here. Using the MB concepts to IMPROVE a posters life. There are LIVES at the other ends of these words and sometimes people's personal agendas and vendettas get in the way of REAL advice.

I am eternally grateful that I found MB and I can honestly say that hearing the way MB used to be, even a couple of years ago, it is the FIRST time that I am thankful for having found it when I did. I don't think I could have followed MB any better the old way. Who knows?


BW(Me)aka Scotty:37
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Plan B Dec18/09
Personal R in works
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Originally Posted By: Neak
I still remember very well when I was blatantly and cruelly attacked myself, not only for trying to help a deployed soldier deal with the news of his WW's A and implement MB plans, but also very personally for my own role as a recovered BS. She thought I was "pitiful" for agreeing to reconcile with my dear AJ.


When you're done making your sister's birthday dinner, call me up and tell me who this was. I forgot although I think I remember who the soldier was. Was I ever this forgetful before? I can't remember...MrRollieEyes

tl

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