Actually you will be enabling the A and supporting your H's cake-eating so you will be doing the opposite of saving your M. If you would like information on how to stop the A, I suggest you move this over to SAA and get information on your next steps.

But you're not doing the best to save your marriage, in fact, you're not doing much at all.

Maybe you'd best stop "planning" and start doing - doing things like hiring a PI who can get the photographic proof that you need of an affair. You say you have a well paying job, why not spend some of that cash on a PI, look at it as an investment on your marriage. You already know he sleeps at another woman's house, but for some strange reason think he's sleeping on the couch. Who told you that? Your husband? And you believed him?

A truism - married men do not stay at a woman's house overnight to play tiddlywinks and then sleep on the couch.

My point is that until I find concrete evidence and I am going to be looking for it, I am not going to confront him or expose him. And I will be looking and I may hire a PI but I will be doing my own investigation first.

And in the meantime I will be the best wife and try to meet all his EN. He has stayed at the house now and even had dinner with me and we had some fun conversation. Even when he has been staying at thehousehe hasn't been here during the day much and he was. He also did not pack a bag this morning which means he most likely is coming home tonight.

I am not going to approach him, I will let him approach me. I told him I want to discuss the separation but until he comes to me to talk I will say nothing and simply observe. And try and meet his EN at th same time.

Any advice is appreciated. I know I need to expose the affair before things can get better but right now he's staying at home so I'm not going to push that one yet.

I've been reading on SAA.

I am beginning to believe you guys. I need your help. How do I convince him separation is the wrong idea now. How do I expose with no evidence. He has shut down every means of evident I can collect. He doesn't talk to her on the phone or text her bc I can see phone records.

I still think PI will do nothing because he will justify that they are friends every step of the way. Am looking at voice activated recorders for his car any good links? And how do I hide it so I am sure he doesn't find it. I am not sure I will get anything from it since I have his cell phone records and he's not talking to anyone unusual.

Should I confront her? I know you guys already said not to but a stay away from my husband and stop letting him "sleep on your couch"?

Should I go to the friend who came to my husband. My husband wouldn't tell me what she said. I have no idea if she was accusing him of an affair or simply talking to him about the fact that we've been having issues. I want to expose especially her. I know she would be really embarrassed if I exposed it to people and I want to. I also know for a fact they are not right for each other. I know that is not how affairs work but I know my husband and I have talked to her several times in the past. They are not compatible as lovers. He would not be able to fill her EN like at all. I talked to her once about her ex and she told me some things.

Anyway. I could use some help and input here.

Thanks.

I would talk to the friend that confronted your husband. I would AVOID confronting the OW. You don't want to tip them off as to what is going on.

VARs on Amazon

There's a quick list of available VARs - honestly they're all probably about the same. You could use some velcro to stick it underneath his seat.

Is there any way you can get into his email? Or take a look at his phone?

Honestly - you have enough as of right now. You know he's asking for a separation - you know he's sleeping over at another woman's house. Where there is smoke, there is fire.

Thanks.

I doubt that I can get to email. I used to know the password but it changed and I don't anymore. And I have no access to his work email without stealing his phone which is locked (work policy) and I also don't know that without watching him.

I do have a lot of evidence(I took some time to write it all down) but nothing concrete and he can deny all of it. I don't want to pretend I have evidence either. He would just find a way to make it sound like i didnt know what I was talking about.

A couple things.
He has become very "private" saying things like that was a private conversation and blah blah. I know this is just another sign of the infidelity. But how can I convience him I deserve to look at his emails and know the truth. Especially when he is so close to simply walking out the door. He doesn't need thy extra push.

He hasn't been wanting to spend time with me. I know I need to expose the affair first. But If he doesn't want to spend time with me I don't know how plan A will work. Does he have to be on board with this for it to work? Right now he's not willing or wanting to make positive steps to a happy future together because he "needs to decide if he wants to be with me" AKA wants to decide if he can give up OW. How do I make him realize that it's not going to get better until he decided he wants to. I can try an meet his emotional needs but if he doesn't want me to I feel like it will only make things worse.

I am still waiting for him to come to me right now but I think he still is in separate mode. Even though we spent a pleasant evening together.

So I don't think I have mentioned this yet but here's something that happened the other day.
Husband came to me sat morn and asked if I would like to go with him to a football game. One we were supposed to go to together before things fell apart. I felt so happy but he made it clear that it did not mean we were getting back together. I agreed. So as we were about to leave. He starts acting really weird, now I had already made arrangements to stay home. I did not plannon going until that morning. When he started acting wowed I inquired. He said "it doesn't feel right" then tells me how ow just chastised him for not making a decision. And he said and it is understandable because I've been sleeping on her couch while I was looking for an apt. At the time I was somewhat distraught and trying to stay strong while also not stooping to the level she did. I had lots of time to think about this after he left and this is kinda how I came to the conclusion that it is at least an EA. Anyway I would like to confront him about it but am unsure how. I was thinking about saying something you said bothered me. That she has no right to chastise you over a decision you make just because you are sleeping on her couch. But I am afraid it will backfire.
When he left for the trip he called me and we had a long discussion while he was driving. Then he talked to me several times during the day. And then came home and spent a pleaant evening together. Do I don't want to bring it up out of the blue if this is his attempt to reconcile. I realize the affair will need to be exposed but what if he is planning on going NC on his own. This incident may have been a taste of how she is? And because I was so calm and considerate about the situation. I don't know. I am trying to work things out.

Thanks for the help!!

WTD, I encourage you to hit Notify and ask the moderators to move your thread to Surviving An Affair. From way out here, it looks like your H would want to protect his affair at all costs, and so wouldn't be open to convincing. You have enough evidence for you to know. I think Plan A is supposed to be very short, because it is so hard. So, this short Plan A where you demonstrate the willingness to meet his needs, and then Plan B, to preserve the love you still have for him. Because as I've read it here Plan A alone works only like 15% of the time. Have you read the articles, are you familiar with these?

Thanks.
I think he does want to protect it. This morning everything was fine then he pulled out his wallet and started counting money. I asked why he had so much cash, he never carries cash. He said he had to get money out of the ATM for something. I said I'd noticed a few ATM trips(I take care of finances in the household so I track the bank accounts and credit cards spending) and he was like yeah because my wife is probably tracking my credit cards just like she tracks my phone in real time. WTF? He was angry. I have been like so nice to him. He's actually had dinner with me two nights at the house and we watched some tv. I don't know what to do anymore.

He came back home. I tried to apologize for my outburst. I then got a little upset on the phone with him. He ready to just give up. He says all his married friends tell him he needs to just come back to me and all his single friends tell him he should leave. I don't want to accuse him. He doesn't want to be accused. It says I should Not accuse or judge when I expose the affair. I still don't have any concrete evidence. I know that we can't make any steps to recovery till she is out of the way but I don't know how. He is going to keep everything a secret as much as he can.

I think he's going to find a place to live today. And he's not even willing to talk about the separation anymore. He just wants out. He doesn't care how long and painful divorce is.

Maybe I should move on to plan B. Any thoughts anyone. Is it ok to move to plan b before the affair is exposed? He is going to be super careful now. If there was any proof surely it is gone. He thinks I should trust him. I told him I wanted to trust him but how could I when he didn't even want me to know where he was going? Or spending our money.

My opinion is you should go to plan B. It doesn't matter if your H is having an affair or not (although I think it is obvious he is and you aren't willing to believe it yet). He is screwing with your emotions and your head big time. He is making you crazy...he's totally unable to make any decisions. How long are you willing to spend to save a 2.5 year marriage? You are young. You want a family. At what should be one of the most wonderful times of your life (young, recently married, gaga in love with each other) you've got a guy who is unwilling to commit to anything, who's sleeping with an OW, who does what he wants and hides the truth from you, blaming you for being controling and trying to change him. Honey, get out and build a new life and find someone who's a stable candidate for marriage and fatherhood.

Thanks.
I still want to make it work with my husband though. He is confused too. And the fact that he's letting his single friends tell him what to do is ridiculous. Yes he is most likely having an affair. I will agree to that now. I don't want to believe it but it is the only thing that makes sense. It just sucks that I didnt end it when I had the chance. I really want to expose it right now but I don't want my husband to lose credibility at work. I wish he could just see past all this. He refuses to realize that we can be a happy couple. And he's totally against the ideas I think. I was trying to be really calm and nice and talk this morning and he was like this isn't you. It was like he wanted me to get mad and yell. I said I thought there was a better way to discuss issues and that we didn't have to do it with anger. He was like I don't care what your books say. Blah blah. He admits that we had stopped meeting each others emotional needs but think that because of that we should just separate. Because obviously that means we don't love each other. I tried to explain the love bank concept to him(without actually calling it that bc I don't think he would be very receptive) but he didn't want to hear it. He thinks I am trying to make him be someone. I tried to explain that's not what I want. That I just want to be happy and make him happy.

How exactly does Plan B work? I've been focusing so much on plan A. Any pointers on plan B is appreciated.

You can't reason with a wayward spouse. You really can't.

I know exposure is scary. You may lose your marriage, but in reality you lose your marriage if you don't expose.

You need to sit down and list your exposure targets. Call them all and say "My marriage is in trouble. DH has been not coming home nights, instead he goes to XXs home. I believe he is having an affair. He is very confused and receiving bad advice. Please, help us and our marriage by encouraging him to end his affair."

When your husband blows his gasket, stay calm and tell him you will fight for your marriage because you believe it is worth it, then move the conversation on.

He WILL get upset.

That's ok.

Plan B is done after a STELLAR Plan A of carrot (meeting needs) and stick (exposure).

In Plan B you go complete NC from your husband. It's like you fell off the face of the earth for him.

Plan B is risky because it can lead to divorce. Especially in your situation with a short marriage and no children, but it CAN work to bring a spouse around. Know that it takes time, because usually you will have to wait out the natural death of the affair, which can take years. The average life of an affair is 2 years. Some end in months, and others go on indefinitely (26 years so far, but hers is one of the longest I've ever heard of so I doubt it likely for your situation).

You have to STOP trying to talk to your H about marriagebuilding. It is a lovebuster and it WON'T work!

He is in a FOG and part of the FOG is when the WS has turned everything around on the BS in order to justify the A... So every time you LB him, you are just giving him more ammunition, in HIS mind, for the A.

I would focus your energies into getting your exposure ready = your best shot at ending the A. You really only have once chance to do it and you want to do it right.
Affairs thrive on secrecy and shining a public light on them helps to remove the fantasy aspect of it...

After you have exposed it, you continue your Plan A while you get your Plan B lined up. This may take a couple of weeks. You are going to need some time getting an IM, your PB letter written and getting everything ready so that you can go dark and STAY dark.

Your Plan A will consist of avoiding lovebusters, making the house a nice place to be, trying to plan things you know your H would enjoy and inviting him along, etc., doing things to make you feel good about you such as exercise and getting some new makeup or clothing. Keep the R talk to a minimum. I would also add to try not to be so focused on his reaction as doing the best job you can to follow your plan. I had a Plan A sheet that I had to refer to all through the day to keep my head straight and to STOP reacting to my H's waywardly behavior!

Once you go dark, the OW will have to meet all of his ENs herself. Everything is in motion for the A to crumble.

Please let us know if you intend to expose so that we can help you get that lined up.

Who should I start off with. His best friend? Who lives in a different state. His parents? Who he hasn't spoken with in a month though I'm not sure why. He hasn't told many people he's been having problems. A couple people have found out from his the way he's been acting.

I really want to tell ow to back off but I know I can't. That's like the number one thing I feel like doing right now though.

I do believe this has taken it's toll on him as well. He's been extra stressed. I hate to see him like that.

you need to do a massive explosive exposure in order for this to work...I am talking about

You family/friends
WH family/friends
co-workers
Boss
Neighbors
pastor
OW's Friends/family
ETC

Doesn't matter if they haven't talked for a while exposure will KILL this affair.

Sweetie he is the one that is making his life miserable not you, so don't feel sorry for him at all.

Is it ok to expose without concrete evidence?

I mean he will just deny it. And I don't see him being open to coming home once I do expose. So how can I do Plan A? He will just be mad at me. I know it's the only way to save the marriage. When I expose what do I need to say.

WTD --

Why oh why can't you hire a PI?
Seriously -- it would probably take one day to get the evidence you need.

You so badly need to study the information here -- you tend to buy into all of his justifications and gaslighting, and you need to get stronger at recognizing his attempts to deflect the blame for the situation at YOU. You haven't done anything wrong here!

You said you are a planner. So PLAN THIS.
Get your plan A in order and perfected. Work on collecting the evidence and snooping. Plan out your exposure targets and strategy. Set a schedule for Plan B.

Of course he is going to be MAD at you. He wants BOTH of you, he doesn't want to be forced to make a choice. He doesn't want to make a commitment either way. He wants his cake.

Exposure = telling friends and family about the affair. And asking for their help and support for the marriage.

Confrontation = talking to your wayward husband and the other woman with your evidence and your expectations and boundries (ie, that they cease all contact and end the affair)

Exposure makes continuing the affair unattractive to BOTH of them. They should feel embarressed and remorseful about their behavior. You will be exposing OW just as much as you are exposing your husband. Affairs are only fun when they are secret.

DITTO!

But he doesn't want me. He wants to leave.

What evidence do I need to get from a PI? I will look into some local PIs.

I have a list of all the reasons I think it's an affair.

That's why I was asking if I could expose based on what I already have. I think I've posted everything here.