In that case igrip I wish you the best of luck in your plan b. Please don't give up hope. Just before my H went plan b, he tried everything and I just wasn't interested. If you love truly loves you then she will realise what she has lost when she can't have you. 3 weeks into my H plan B (I was the one who moved out) I thought what the he'll have I done. My H would have nothing to do with me I nearly went insane.

Make sure you use Plan B to spend some time on YOU. Doing hobbies seeing friends maybe even taking up a new evening class.

Thanks all...have a lawyer appointment on the 29th to see what 'good deal' or whatever I can/will get. Until then, I will just have to wait, be nice and minimize contact (which is easy enough these days). I will come back on here with my 'offer' after my lawyer appointment as I will need some help going through my options there.

Thank you again everyone...it is scary that right now, every time I see her, I like her just a bit less. This is where Plan B makes sense...none of this makes sense unless you are immersed in it....I can see this now. And it has only been 5 months of this too......yuck.

Don't worry, I'm not reading into this (too much anyway), but this morning was interesting. She calls the house and tells me she made herself an appointment at the marriage counselor we went to a few months back. I did not ask why, but mentioned that I thought that was a good thing.

She then emailed asking details on a few things - details about a truck I just bought, one of my employees who is going through the same thing and left her husband and my thoughts on disciplining our daughter when she throws a tantrum and if I had told my parents (I assume that she moved out).

Sounds like she's compiling a list of grievances that she can discuss with the marriage counselor so as to convince such counselor that repairing the marriage is hopeless...

but, at least, she can then say "I tried marriage counselling and even he/she thought divorce was the only option"

Mr. Wondering

Call up the counselor and give him/her a heads up as to what has been going on in your marriage (OM) lately, so he/she gets your side of the story, not just hers.

I thought about that...calling or emailing counselor. That is not a breach or controlling or anything like that is it? I agree..two sides of the story are better than one. And we went together 5 times...for hours at a time....so it is interesting that she wants to go alone now. Good thoughts MrWondering and JMWC...

How is that controlling? It's just giving the counselor more information so they can better do their job. Sure, if your WW finds out you did that and calls her on her lies, she's going to be pissed, but BFD, WW's get mad about everything.

I agree. Call the counselor. you are not controlling. You are trying to give the professional ALL the information he/she needs in order to help your wife. It will be like Jerry McGuire. You are helping him/her to help your wife. "Help me help you."

Maybe it doesn't work, but you know what I mean. I have recently shared a ton of questionable stuff with our counselor. Chat history from while I was deployed overseas. It really shows the desintigration of our relationship via SKype chats, but what it really did was show what each of us were saying/feeling throughout the process. It was very revealing for the counselor and she told me she was very glad I shared it. It gave her more insight into Pinky.

I say do it.

How can I plan B dark if I drop off daughter at her 'house' a few times per week? Do I insist in the letter that all pick up and drop offs are at our mother in law house (next door) and I can just leave baby and not ever see wife? Is that feasible to request?

I have lawyer appointment tomorrow...get all details ironed out (fair for me) and get signature BEFORE Plan B letter? Or Plan B letter with my 'counteroffer' from attorney?

Get the details (drop off) ironed out and then go to plan B. Do not do a direct drop off to your WW. You need to go completely dark. Get someone else to handle child exchanges.

Hi Igrip,

Well it has been a few weeks since I have looked on here on this forum. In all honesty Ms. Writer's situation on 101 is practically tearing my heart out.

Igrip, I am enthused that you are still posting here, but please get a grip my friend - a trusted intermediary could handle the exchanges and any communications, as long as the exchanges are not everyday! Despite the fact that your MIL lives in an attached residence, do NOT involve her at all.

Igrip, I would interpret your situtation as this: Your wife has left you. She has no intention of returning at this point. And, that is right, you cannot ever see your wife again or communicate with her if you are at all serious about at least attempting a Plan B to save your M, unless she agrees to your demands for no contact, and reconciliation.

Igrip, I know that it is easy for people to advise you all over the place here when they are not feeling what you are going thru. If I were in your shoes right now, and believe me, my wife and I have been separated now for 13 months with her in the nursing home, and I realize an entirely different situation, but, without shocking your W with a Plan B Igrip, and a well thought out Plan B, the emotional distance between you and her will only increase. You need to change the mommentum of this 'game' Igrip before you lose it. I know this may sound harsh, but by god you have been hovering on a Plan B for several weeks now. Time to get into position to kick the game winning field goal.

As I have stated before, there are so many here who come and go without any positive results. There are some who appear for a few days or even off and on a few weeks, and then disappear - I have to assume they lost. Then, there are a few like you Igrip, who, like an NFL rookie, are just trying to keep up and make it. It gets to the final week just before final cuts. The rookie is uncertain, apprehensive, troubled. The real future NFL star takes a gamble based on his talents and makes a great play in the final preseaon game. The one who is Not kept, dances, shys away from tackles so as to avoid making a mistake, and feigns an injury. The rookie who took that gamble, and thought things thru for himself made the team; the rookie who played it safe was cut and is now unemployed (e.e., now divorced).

Igrip, I know you love and are pining for your wife. But, which of these rookies are you. Deep in each of our hearts we all desire a decent and good marriage. The majority of us have that. We do not have perfect ones, just marriages that are not broken. The majority of us do not have to worry about trust in terms of being abondoned via infidelity. When that happens I belive it is more devastating than anyone could imagine. I think that by the time people come on here, there has been so much hurt, resentment, and distrust, that it is difficult to repair. I do not care what people advise here, but from my experience of almost 42 years now, hurt and resnetment cannot be overcome by a Plan A or a Plan B. Those are just temporary measures to get your foot in the door so to speak again. But, I believe a Plan B is effective in the shock effect to open the door wider. The potential loss of something (relationship) familiar and with a history does have a shock effect, as opposed to the grass over the fence is greener.

well, I had not planned on posting so much. I just feel that you could take better command of your marriage and save it quite fankly. With all this Igrip, I will continue to support you and pray for your success in your endeavor with respect to your daughter and your marriage.

Tom

Plan A and Plan B alone or separately are NEVER meant to nor will they ever help people overcome the hurt and resentment completely. That takes YEARS to accomplish, whether through a restored marriage or through personal recovery that comes with being able to say you know you did the right things (even if the WS fails to return).

Igrip,

Did you find an IM for your child?

If not, I would advise asking a friend with whom you've discussed your marriage in depth. That's how I find my IM, even though I'm not in Plan B. Friends and acquaintances with whom I discussed my marital woes only a bit declined to serve as my IM. Just my 2 cents.


-----------------------------------------
Me: BH, 39 (and no longer jobless; just broke)
Her: WW, 33
Never lived together
Married 6 years; together 10 years
2 young kids (DD3 and DD1.5)
Her EA: Fall '08
She moves out of our home: Fall '09
D-day: 01/22/10
D-day #2: 06/28/10
Exposed to 12 of my WW's and the OM's friends and family members plus all of my immediate family members and some extended family
In plan A at Dr. Bill Harley's advice since May '10

Yes...mil exchanges are perfect and reasonable. MIL is your childs grandparent...you are always going to try to keep that relationship a good one (TRY being the operative word). MIL is obviously not Intermediary material and you shouldn't put her in the middle by having extended conversations about your plans (Plan B) or your life (which she'll likely share with wife) with MIL. She can be unaware of all the purposes behind using her as the exchange person other than telling her that you, pursuant to your counsellor, feel it best FOR YOU and YOUR RECOVERY from your wife's abuse if you have ZERO interpersonal contact with your wife while she continues in rebellion. You can maybe state that you are protecting what little remaining love you have for her daughter by doing this such that you hope to wait it out until the day she (wife) decides to do the right thing and work on the marriage. That your counsellor feels that this is best for you to distance yourself and that you certainly remain willing to try...at this point to recover and that you appreciate your MIL's help with facilitating the child transfers. Make it clear that you intend NOT to see or speak with wife until she's ready to come home and you'd appreciate it if she not speak to you about your wife and her comings and goings during this period. IF and WHEN wife is ready to reconcile...wife should be directed to come to you...and NOT INVOLVE HER.

Your MIL can be your ally (at least mine was) if you make her feel safe about YOUR relationship with her and the relationship of your child with her (while such child is in your custody). If things change or MIL turns against you then you can decide what you'll do but for now treat her like Switzerland (nuetral).

I also think from a divorce case perspective that to the court...using the MIL for transfers seems fairly reasonable. Getting a third party involved...not so much.

Something like that...

Mr. W <---never did do Plan B

I am waiting until she gets the papers and signs off on them before I start Plan B. Plus, I 'messed up' the other day.

Dropped off my daughter at wife's house...and daughter invited me in to see something. I asked my wife if it was ok and she said 'sure.' I saw what my daughter wanted to show me and was walking out when I saw a collage of pictures in the hallway - of OM and my WIFE. Pathetic. And written on one of the pics was "LOVE U." Of course, I was hurt. I looked at my wife, told her that she was a married woman and stormed out. Daughter followed me so I picked her up to kiss her goodbye - glared at my wife again telling her "mad I was" and unfortunately, I added in the words that 'she is a liar' and 'trash.' LOVE BUSTER.

That night, she texted 'i'm sorry' to me which I did not respond to. The next afternoon, she texts me and tells me how much it hurts when I called her those names. I realized my mistake, apologized to her and told her "she did not deserve that from me and I am proactively working on not letting my emotions get the best of me.' She texted back and forth a bit....sorry that I was angry, but words were worse than what I saw, etc. I called her (she didn't answer) but finally called me back...and told her how we were both in lots of pain right now and that triggers are natural for both. I was taking full responsibility for MY PART and was actively working on myself. I was glad she told me and told her how different this was than six months ago when I would not have ever realized that I had hurt her with words. I did voice my opinion on how inappropriate I felt pictures like that were for our daughter to which she started to argue that it was no different than pictures of anybody else of our friends up.......blah blah blah. Dropped off daughter later and talked for about five minutes - about high prices of the water park she went to, how she almost bought a TV but didn't want to spend the $200 and Craigslist furniture finds. I told her I was sorry she was in this position and kissed daughter goodbye.

About half an hour later, wife CALLED me (which is rare these days) to tell me a funny that daughter had done which was very considerate (I thanked her). Just for laughs, my two year old had passed gas and we teach her to say 'excuse me' when that happens. Well, my wife asked her 'what do you say' to which daughter responded 'open the window.' Funny funny.

Anyway, I do not want the last memory of me to my wife being me calling her names. So, fact is, we KNOW OM is still in her life, she is still in the fog and I believe I need a bit more NICE plan A before Plan B comes in.

Oh, and after I saw the pictures up, I did take my wedding ring off. WW has not said anything, nor am I sure she has noticed, but that blatant pictures up hurt me deeply.

Ig:

Why did you go in her "LoveShack"?

Do NOT give it any more power. You let your daughter walk from the curb or driveway into the house.

She IS a "liar" and "Trash".

She has "family" photos of her and OM around her place? Forcing your DD to see THAT?

And she worked you for the next two days to get you to "agree" with her that YOU were the wrong one.

Get your agreement, and GET DARK.

She can stab you and hurt you every day, but you better NOT be anything less than PERFECT to her.

What is Plan A about that?

LG

Hi Igrip,

Have the say off today, and am taking a break in some chores around here, so thought I would post to you.

I will have to say that seeing that collage is, for lack of a better word, yucky! And, no not a good idea to throw names at her. On the other hand Igrip, it just seems to me that she is well-practiced now and pretty adept at zinging you and causing you to react. By allowing you to go in and look at what your daughter wanted to show you, she certainly was not unaware of the chance that you would see that.

It is very easy for an outsider to make observations and to try to give advice. However, if I were in your situation I believe I would keep conversations more business-like and factual, and, as I suggested to MJ, decide on Your date to end Plan A, and not hinge it on whether or not she files or does something else. I know you have received a couple of suggestions regarding an IM, BUT if I were you again, and I am not, I would want a stronger ally even tho your MIL may be a possibility due to convenience.

Well Irgip, need to run, but continuing best wishes.

Tom

Working on my Plan B letter .. will post up soon to get a rough draft critique. Thank you all.

One question, how do I work drop offs of daughter at WW's house? I cannot expect her to come pick her up from MILs house next door every time - or can I put that in the letter? Thanks to all.....

IGRIP,

I saw a collage of pictures in the hallway - of OM and my WIFE. Pathetic. And written on one of the pics was "LOVE U." ..... unfortunately, I added in the words that 'she is a liar' and 'trash.' LOVE BUSTER.

I don't think I've called anyone here any really crude terms, but to allow your daughter to see pictures of her Mother with OM, while pretending this isn't destroying her child, does put her in the liar and TRASH category.

To expose a child to that kind of abuse is almost bad as to show them pornography.

God Bless
Gamma

You put in your letter whatever you want done. You want to make it as easy as you can to control your contact with WW so that you don't have any.