Yeah NP, I wish we could allways stay open to learning like we did when we were young. I allways told my kids, who looked up to me like I was God when they were younger,(I think all kids do that sorta in some ways to their parents, caregivers). That I was just taking care of them for God until they were old enough to ask Him what to do and let Him protect them, and most of all, what was really valuable. I had to answer to God in how I lived and treated others and He would have all the answers for them I didn't have when they presented themselves.

To a child this seems absurd, and they want life to be figured out right then or at least by the time thier 18, they can't wait to get out of school and do what they want after they know what that is, and they think what they want now will allways remain the same.

Us adults know better, lifes issues change and we do with them, so we allways need guidance and must be willing to learn about how to deal with the details and remember what is really valuable.

Lots of people put down the self-help books. I think those people are foolish. Maybe they are looking for the wrong answers in them and get dissapointed. I think we are all learning if we open ourselves up to it, and life is for learning.

Glad you are doing things for yourself and taking good care of you. Prayers for recovery for your family.

It sounds to me like he feels guilty about the pain he is causing his DD, and is trying to eliminate some of that by making sure she's able to talk to you whenever she wants to.

Pretend you never heard that, and put it on the shelf. It may mean something and it may not, but the only way to tell for sure is with hindsight.

Carry on with your excellent Plan B!

I think you're right, Neak. Really it could mean anything. I'm not letting myself get my hopes up, because there are really no other signs that he is wanting to fix the wrong he's done.

WH's dad is in hospital right now - had a bad fall and fractured his hip. He just had surgery today. I called him and chatted to him for a little while. Doesn't sound like WH has bothered to call him at all ... he must really be avoiding his family like MIL said. Stupid wayturd.

I am beginning to feel a little like I deserve my red cape of power....

WE know you deserve it girl!! Keep it up you are doing the best thing for yourself right now.

Everyone should have one, and they go with anything!

Hi everyone,

So something has happened in the last couple days and I just wanted some input, to see if this is a stage everyone goes through or not....

Over the last few days, I stopped wanting WH to come back. I thought about how he treated me (which wasn't well), how he treated my family (which was horrible), and how hard we'd have to work to regain the trust that's been shattered. I don't think he's capable of coming back with complete humility and asking forgiveness - he never has bowed down that way his whole life, and up to the point he left, he kept talking about all the changes I'd have to do if we ever tried to make it work. And suddenly I just realized how much happier I am without him around, and how excited I am for my future.

I am thinking of starting divorce proceedings this next week but I just wanted to run it by on here first, becuase that's a really big step. Does everyone go through this phase of not wanting their WS back?

That is the risk of a FR. It leaves the BS with some not so nice memories. Give it some time, NP. There is no hurry to D. You really have no business dating or thinking about dating yet anyway. I would though check into your legal rights regarding custody, support etc. just to be prepared.

NP - I can certainly appreciate you not wanting back your old (W)H. However, in a number of instances, infidelity has a way of breaking the wayward spouse entirely, and you may find a changed - for the better - man after all of this is said and done.

I think the question you need to ask yourself is: if he ended the affair, if he came back, if he was utterly broken and changed and working your recovery program... if all of the good happened, would it be enough for you? Would it be worth it?

What would be the ideal scenario for you and your children?

Hey NP!

Proud of you for being strong these past weeks. You are growing immeasurably. Keep it up!

Now that you seem to be coming out of the worst of it, I would ask you to really sit back and think about who your WH is/was. Not just who he is now, but who he was. If you are completely honest with yourself is he the kind of person you want back in your life? You describe somebody who would be unrepentant for the devestation he has caused even if he did come back. If that's true, then I suspect he has some deeper character issues then you were able to see previously. I've said it before and I'll say it again, it takes an unbeliveably selfish and entitled person to have an affair. It takes an even more selfish and entitled person to do it while he has a pregnant wife. Some here will disagree and tell you that a wayward is a wayward....yada....yada. But I disagree. I believe this man has shown who he really is and you deserve way better then this. Way better!!!

I say file for the D now. The process takes a while so you still have plenty of time to think things through and even change your mind. In the meantime, the process can get started in case you decide you are definitely done and you are that much closer to starting your new life without this horrible man.

A D, when filed for in Canada, can be final in 31 days if no one contests it.

I didn't quite get to the point where I didn't want my WH back, but there are times when I question why I would. I think it IS completely normal.

I am not telling you which one you should do, it is completely up to YOU. I would say that you put a timeline on your Plan B, and when your timeline is reached, if your WH does not meet certain requirements, then, you file for a D. Now, it is up to you if that is in 6 months, 2 years, or somewhere in between. Know that your emotions can and WILL go back and forth on this. There are going to be moments where you will just want to find someone who makes YOU happy. That is because your needs aren't being met right now. And you deserve to have those met(sound familiar?). All I will say is that you should examine your life, focus on your personal recovery, and then, at some point you can choose to D, if that is where you have decided to go.

I will ask you to answer this question, "If your WH came to you TODAY, hat in hands, begging on his knees, telling you how sorry he is and that he would do ANYTHING for you to take him back, what would you say?"

There's no rush to D. That's a huge step, and you need to hold off till you're ready. Right now you're still on a roller-coaster, just a smaller, safer one than before. In a few days or a few weeks, you're just as likely to go through a spell where you miss him terribly and pine for his company. Not wanting him today shouldn't cause you to jump into a D, any more than wanting him tomorrow should lead you to try and talk him into coming home.

Having said that, your state of mind right now is a VERY GOOD THING!!!

You can't predict what you would do if he came back to you as a broken man, and that's ok. Your mindset now, more detached and clear than before, is going to help you set the bar high enough.

You set the bar tragically low before, and a FR was the ~inevitable~ result. Don't beat yourself up about that, because what you didn't learn the first time, you're learning now. So

IF

he wants to come back, your hard-won experience will work for you as you decide whether to give him a chance.

This time, you'll be strong and looking out for yourself.

Good on ya!

Been up 24 hours thinking about this.

WH texted me yesterday and said he wanted to come home. That all he ever wanted out of life was to be a husband and dad and he had got to taste it for such a short while. He said he wanted to come home, try going out on dates together, going to bed together, getting to know each other again. He said there was a window open and wanted to know if I want to take it.

He hasn't left OW yet. And when I first got his text I was so disgusted - FINALLY I had let go and now he was wanting to come back and try again. I had done so much thinking about our relationship and I couldn't even remember the last time we'd been truly just HAPPY, even before he started having an A. I couldn't remember the last time he made me feel special and adored and like he was interested in me, in what I had to say and in my thoughts.

I told him no, that I wasn't interested anymore, and he called and we talked for a little while. Apparently he'd been feeling bad for a while and then OW said something about never being the kid's mom and it really made him think what was happening. But we left it that we just didn't see a way to be happy together. I don't think he's ever been truly interested in me or respected me and he always just wanted to be in control and get his way. He never made me feel like I was #1 in his life.

Anyway, so he spent the night sending me emails about splitting up our assets and time with the kids, etc. Apparently he and OW are set to move into a place together Nov 17. And THEN, he brought up again the fact that he was willing to risk everything he had with OW to see if we could make our marriage work.

I am not so sure anymore. Yesterday I was just not interested....today I looked at my daughter's face and I couldn't stop crying, thinking of what her life would be like.

What do I do??

We're thinking about meeting in person Friday or Saturday to discuss this....

He's interested in risking everything he has with the OW?

I think it's going to take a lot more than that. At least it certainly would for me. Tell him that as soon as he moves out of the OW's place and writes a NC letter to her telling her that he wants nothing more to do with her and never wants to see her again, then, and only then, will you even CONSIDER talking to him about recovering your M. Right now, he's still actively involved in an A. It's probably an A that is beginning to lose its rosy hues, as all A's eventually do, but for your sake and the sake of your kids, I wouldn't even consider taking him back until he shows that he is ready to commit himself to working on the M. He isn't anywhere close yet.

@NewPetals: That's the next step. Go out on a date together.
Be dressed to the nines so he knows what he's missing. You are not to talk about any of your future relationship together, although idle chit-chat is encouraged. There are only three points of negotiation this weekend:

1. What will it take for him to never see or speak to the other woman again? How can you help him achieve this objective?
2. Will he be willing to implement extraordinary precautions -- including complete, absolute transparency about his life, with you having access to all his information -- in order to prevent this from happening again? How can you help him achieve these extraordinary precautions?
3. Will he commit to a program of marital recovery with you -- preferably the Harley's home-study course -- and do his best to meet your needs while refraining from behaviors that make you miserable?

Just like your Plan B letter (I assume you had one, right?) stated. These are you basic requirements for recovery with him. If he's not willing to live with any one of those, he's not ready to be with you yet.

Note it's important he not be allowed to come home right now. Separation from the other woman will involve some withdrawal on his part, and you want for him to go through that alone so that he is not withdrawing Love Units -- what few remain! -- from his account in your heart. Date for quite some time before agreeing to have him back, after verifying he's out of contact with the other woman, and that he's implementing the Extraordinary Precautions the two of you agree to.

Of course, if you answer is "no, I don't want him back" then by all means, divorce the cheater.

Uh-huh. Your WH and OW have plans to move into a place together on the 17th, and that's causing your WH to do a little thinking before he jumps in to that commitment. Moving in together is a pretty big dose of reality.

NP, be very careful with this. You don't have to make a decision this second. Tell your WH you've got to have some time to think about this (even if your immediate thought is to tell him no.) And then think about it.

If you didn't have kids together I'd tell him to pound salt. But you do, so you've got to factor them into your decision.

If you do decide to reconcile, it's got to be ironclad. He's going to have to show you that he is willing to do whatever it takes to make you feel safe and to make your M safe from attack from the OW. (Because you know she's not going to give him up quietly - she's thrown too much away at this point.)

Sit down right now and make a list of the positives for letting WH come home. Then make a list of the negatives. Take your time with this - remember that YOU are driving the bus, NP. Not your WH. It's great interesting that he made this overture, but a hasty decision is not required.

If you decide that it's worth a try (and again, I'm thinking about your kids here)make a list changes you would like to see in your M, if indeed you do allow WH to come home. Make a list of things that he will need to do for you to even consider this. Obviously extreme NC has to begin immediately.

But let's not get ahead of the game, here. First, make your plus and minus lists, and let's see what you come up with. Then we'll go from there.

Hey NP!

I agree with writer.... He is willing to risk what he has with OW? I cannot believe he would have the cajones to say that to you at this point. Sounds like he is still very foggy and entitled.

The only way you should even consider this is if he ditches OW and goes NC immediately. 100% transperancy of everything. Even then, he needs to get a separate apartment and you can date and ease him back into your life and your children's life. You need to set the bar high and he has alot to prove to you. Remember, this isn't just about you it's about the kiddos. DD does not need to go through another FR. She doesn't need to see daddy move in and then move out again in a month. He has to prove himself before you allow him back home.

If he is really serious then he will be willing and able to do whatever you ask for as long as you ask. Something in me is doubting that seriously.

Just the fact the you resisted his first attempt shows just how far you have come NP. Really proud of you for being so strong! You rock!!!

By the way NP...this statement really concerns me also. Even now when he is asking to work things out it is about him. It's what he wants. It's about him being a husband and a father. Did he ever just flat out say that he loves and misses you? That he cannot imagine his life with you? That he cannot believe what he has done to you?

Please consider this.

Agree with writer & mindshare & MB. Here is what Dr Harley says from the Plan A/Plan B article.