I e-mailed her the number and asked her to set something up for next week. We will see what the response is.

At times, I read some of the other posts here and the Q&A on this website and it seems like her actions could be described as "typical wayward" The withdrawal, feelings of guilt/shame over the affair, comments about her "connection" with OM, and on and on.

I guess for those reasons, I think that maybe things could work out if she commits to a plan. However, it seems that most people here think I should not even bother. I guess I'm wondering why this is... what makes her actions/comments different from all the other waywards out there? Maybe I'm just being overly optimistic but I would like for things to work somehow.

She claims that she did not want the divorce and felt I rushed her into it. She signed the papers because she felt at the time that she did not want to be with me and I was giving her an ultimatum.

My fear is that she is always going to compare me to OM and we will never have the "spark" that they had. I explained to her that the "spark" was only because their relationship was new and it was also her way of escaping reality. So we, as a couple with 2 young kids, can never have that type of lifestyle. I am scared she is setting unrealistic expectations by comparing our relationship to her affair and that she will never be satisfied.

It has to do with having pride in yourself. Is she a typical wayward? Perhaps. But you mentioned some things which indicates she has personality issues that are much deeper.

She strikes me as a woman who enjoys the chase. That gives her the energy and spark. But to claim she wishes to work things out while at the same time not throwing herself into the effort and showing passion for getting you back is indicative to me that she�s just playing you. She�s setting it up for custody or to play the sick game in her head of chasing you till you cave. This is a game of pride. It drives her nuts that you ended it.

Would you put up with this from a woman you were dating? I�m not talking about sex. I�m talking about someone who half-a$$ approaches you and is like, �I don�t know. I might like you. I might not.�

Wouldn�t it be better to date someone who is excited to see you, enjoys your company, and is passionate about you?

This isn�t an encouragement to you to go date. This is merely to indicate to you what you should be seeing from your xWW.

She is playing you. Plain and simple.

She is not different from any WS out there, that is why we think you should not get back with her. She uses you even when you are divorced. Getting back together with her will only hurt you again, maybe worse because she does not even consider divorce a punishment. Its just another obstacle to her selfish life style.

You divorced her to protect yourself and your kids from her and her destructive ways. You deserve a healthy partner who respects the commitment of marriage, and understands that divorce is costly in more ways than money. Your ex does not understand marriage and divorce.

You can talk with Steve, and he may suggest something completely different, but I suggest getting an IM for your XWW and train the IM to only send messages that are important. Go dark on your XWW she is no longer part of you.

What we're trying to tell you is that you deserve better than to have someone who is coming to you, using you to get affection, and then tells you, "I don't feel a spark."

Understand that women like her are NEVER satisfied, no matter how much affection you show them. You will never meet her expectations of romance, which only exist in Hollywood and fantasy land.

This is never going to change. She's an emotional black hole. YOU can't ever fill it. The void is within her.

Thank you for the advice...it sounds like you are right. We got into an argument just a little while ago...she was complaining that she was broke, so I commented that maybe she shouldnt have gone on a vacation with OM that you couldnt afford. She said she was entitled to a vacation and told me to F-Off. At which point I told her to leave. I called her later and told her that I will not tolerate being talked to like that.

At which point she started going on about how she wishes she could love me and she just doesn't know that this can work. I told her fine then leave me alone. You were the one who said you wanted another chance, not me. I told her she was lucky to have another chance and that she was doing a lousy job trying to win me over. She hung up. I'm sure she will be contacting OM tonight and quite frankly I really dont give a damn.

She also made the comment that the reason she is having such a tough time moving in is that "I took everything from her" meaning the house and the kids. I replied that I did not take that from her...she left. That was her choice and she needs to deal with the consequences.

So now you have your motive. You're divorced. You do not have to take her calls. Block them. You do not have to take her emails. Block them. Find an intermediary to deal with communications over the children.

Turn out all the lights and be gone!

Ed,

Seriously, good job. You stood up for yourself. You really do deserve more.

Stay strong.

Quick update and looking for some advice...

My ex went from Aug 30 through Sept 18 without seeing OM. He lives out of state now, so I know she was not seeting him during this period. We were spending time together so I know she was not traveling to see him. THen I took my kids on vacation and she went to visit him for a day, just last weekend. Says she missed him and wanted to see him.

My ex says she will call Dr Harley and set up a counseling session. Says she wishes things could work for us, but thinks she will miss OM and doesnt want to be in a relationship where she feels no connection or passion for the other person. I told her that if she is willing to follow Dr Harley's advice we could change that.

Should I be on the call or let her do it alone? I think Dr Harley needs to know my side of the story as well. She can do a very good job focusing on the negative and making it sound like I was neglecting her, rather than focusing on what the real issues are.

I would also like to hear Dr. Harley's thoughts on if this is even worth my time. I have doubts that she has what it takes to make things better. She feels like "the spark" should just be there and that it shouldnt be forced or difficult.

I appreciate any thoughts or advice on how to handle this...

Let her do it alone. You can email the Dr. your side of the story so he is aware of it, but the heavy lifting needs to be done by her. From what I know he's pretty good and seeing through Wayward BS.

You could benefit from Dr. Harley's advice, but I would counsel with him separately and alone, you don't even need to let your wife know you're talking to him at this point.

Her thoughts on 'the spark' reflect a freeloader's attitude. I suggest you get and read 'Buyers, Renters and Freeloaders' it may provide valuable insight into your wife.

Your ex is a freeloader. Why pursue a relationship with a man you supposedly feel nothing for? You�re not married anymore. You don�t owe her anything.

Watch how much her spark returns when you tell her, �I�m not doing this anymore. Move on with your life and I�ll move on with mine, but I really don�t want to deal with you, interact with you, or have anything to do with a woman who feels nothing for me. I�m going to be with someone who will appreciate me. Go find your spark. I�m done and value myself more than this idiot game we�re playing.�

Watch how you suddenly become irresistible. Problem is, I really believe this is what you should do. Move on. Let her go. She�s not worth it and you shouldn�t have to be with someone who feels like she�s settling.

I�m remarried and both my new wife and I feel lucky to have each other and that we�re great matches.

There are plenty of times that I tell myself I should just forget it and move on... but then I hold onto hope that if she were to really try to work on things and follow Dr Harley's advice then things could be better.

Isn't her behavior typical WW behavior? Dont they all say these things...I like you as person, but "its" just not there, etc, etc.? I don't expect her to all of the sudden feel in love with me again. That would take time, deposits to the love bank, getting over withdrawal from OM...right??

I feel like if she is really willing to talk to Dr Harley, then I owe it to my family to at least give her time. Her feelings for me will not change overnight.

If she refuses to cut off all contact from OM FOR LIFE, COMMIT to a recovery plan, be transparent, and put up extraordinary precautions to prevent things from happening, then she is not worth wasting your time over. She is a cake eater, and will continue to waffle. She is not a typical WW because she is NOT your wife. She is free to go and pursue any other man that comes into her life.

Yes, your wife wayward "friend" is a wayward with typical wayward behavior. That is why we are telling you to move on. MOVE ON! When a WW won't end her affair and commit to the marriage, the solution is Plan B and DIVORCE. The solution is not to hang around and waste your time with no plan.

move on, Ed!! It's over! You gave her every chance and she never stepped up to plate. She is not sincere. She just wants to use you.

Hope is not a plan....

That is the line that clued me in to her freeloader mentality. In marriage, you have to actively cultivate that spark.

I agree - she isn't your wife, she is a free agent able to see who ever she wants.

You REALLY need to cut her out of your life. I know the best possible scenario is you two get back together and create a happy family for your children. I know you want that, you want it so bad that you're cutting your EX wife slack and trying to carry a weight that is HERS ALONE to carry.

You need to let go of this hope. If she DOES do the work she needs to let her do it for herself, because it is the right thing to do.

You've done more than enough to demonstrate you could be a good husband. You've laid out your requirements for recovery of the marriage. It is no longer up to you what happens. You've ALREADY done all the work you can do here. There is NOTHING more you can do, because her future is in HER hands. It will be up to HER to counsel with the Harleys and put together a plan to CONVINCE YOU she is worth returning to.

You are grasping for the crumbs she throws you and you're a starving man. There are feasts to be held if you'd just turn your eyes from her and towards your own future. Whether that future has her in it is NOT your choice, but HERS.

She knows right from wrong, she knows your bar is high and where it sits. Let her chose to reach for it, or not. But walk away for now.

I agree I have done everything in my power and that I can't control her actions. I guess its tough for me to accept that.

I will see what she does, in terms of contacting Dr. Harley and demonstrating that she is committed to a plan. In the meantime I will be cordial with her for my kids sake

Here is the thing, Ed. When a wayward is foggy, that is not a condition to be tolerated, but a problem to be solved. She has had ample time to resolve this problem and commit to the marriage and has not done so.

Mel - I think I understand what you mean, but only the wayward can solve this problem. I have no control over it. I think her contacting Dr Harley would be a positive step in the right direction towards solving the problem.

Who knows...she may never call Dr Harley or she may tell me that she thinks he is a quack. I guess, for whatver reason, I am willing to see what she does and give it a chance, but only if I am convinced she is committed to a plan.

You need to limit the contact you have with her. You are in your own fog. Her continued presence in your life clouds your judgement and will prevent you from healing and moving on. It is what is preventing you from seeing this situation clearly and is keeping you in limbo.

I'm not talking about moving forward with dating, but moving forward with your own life and through the recovery you need to do. You will never do that as long as you hold out hope.

Your EX-wife is stuck down a well, you've thrown down a rope and she is MORE than capable of climbing out. But she's sitting down in the well with her arms crossed refusing to move. Now you can sit there by the well waiting, or even climb down in - or you could go and make yourself a sandwhich.

She can climb out if she wants, but you can't stay around waiting for her.

Back up for a minute and look at it this way:

You�re dating this person who happens to be the mother of your children. So remove that quality for a second.

She�s a woman you�re spending time with and dating. You like her, but she doesn�t like you in the same way. She views you as �a friend� but not a boyfriend.

Would you stay together with a woman like that?

I completely understand that fact that you love her. But you must let her go to have any kind of chance to get back together. Right now she�s freeloading.

She is kicking you in the nuts on a daily basis and you say, �thank you, ma�am, may I have another.�

So stop that cycle.

You�re dating again. This woman has just told you that she feels nothing for you and doesn�t see you in a romantic way.

If it was any other woman, you would say, �Well, it was nice meeting you. I�m moving on. I want to be with someone who likes me.�

You would then dump said woman.

So do that.

Breaking up is hard to do.