I hope this is the right forum. Anyway, a brief background:

I'll try to keep this brief, but I'll answer any questions in order to get good advice to save this relationship.

We are not actually married yet, but have been together for 6 years and have a beautiful 16 month daughter.

Since the early stages of our relationship, my GF has said her dream life was to be happily married with a family. Those are my wishes too.

In my mind, I always knew we would get married. She has always asked me (joking, but I knew she was serious) - "When are you gonna ask me to marry you". We are both in the travel industry and since 9-11 job security has be elusive...I wanted to wait until our financial future was secure. I knew it would happen, but just needed to wait so I could "do it right". I will admit, during this time I neglected our relationship by not showing how much I truly feel about her.

So here is the problem: I planned to propose to her on 9-15. Recently had a promotion that released the financial burden, and that date was my first "new" paycheck.

Just a few days prior, I saw a text on her phone from another guy saying he just sent her an email on facebook.
I didn't like the tone , so I logged onto her facebook, The message Basically was a reply to another email - it said how she changed his world and how much he loved her and our daughter.

I immediately confronted her about the text an she eventually admitted she had seen him on a few overnights away from our home. He is a childhood friend of hers and she says it was nothing sexual. She was just opening up 2 him about problems in our relationship. He was just a friend.

I somehow overcame this and proposed as planned. Her answer was "yes" but she needed time - we need to work on some things. So the real answer was maybe... That was a good night. We had a great time and even made love that night, had been well over a month since then.

We talked the next day we both agreed if we were to overcome this and make a life together, all contact with him MUST stop while we worked out our problem. She then said she was always in love with me, but was now unhappy. She said she now feels she loves me, but is not in love with me. She needed some space to figure things out. She would have gladly said yes a few months ago, but is now unsure? the time she became unsure, seems to be related to the time she started talking to him.

I agreed to give her this space for, but it had to be for only her. She agreed. She was going to tell him no more contact. A few night later, I caught her texting him and she texted: "hmm....so vague... alright. love and miss u" I asked if she was texting him, she said no. I showed her the text and she admitted she did. She had told him no contact originally, he wasn't happy about that, but he had no choice. She said the last few days it felt like I was pushing her too hard and needed to talk to someone.

I have given her every opportunity to get out of this relationship, and she said she still wanted to try. She promised me that we would try, she just needed time for herself. I was opening up to her like I haven't in so long, it was something she wasn't used to.

So there is my answer, we will try to work it out (using this site now). just not yet. She needed a few more days to think by herself. After this short time, she will put 100% into this. I asked her if she would call him during this time, and she said she didn't know...

What is my next move?

I am sorry you are here the first thing you need to realize is that your g/f is having an affair with this man, and he will be over to her house as long as you are gone...so MOVE BACK IN!

Second thing you will need to do is install a keylogger onto her computer so you know exactly what she is doing online. I am sure there is way more then she is telling.

third thing you need to do is decide whether or not you want to really marry this person, because she just failed her interview for being "your wife"

If she wants to work on the relationship then she will need to write a NC letter to this OM and sit down with her and making new EP'S (extra precautions) so this does not happen again.

I am sorry to say this but you will also need to expose this affair to everyone you know that will have an influence over your g/f. Is the OM married? If so you would need to tell his wife.

One thing you need to realize is that you guy's are not married, so there is no commitment what so ever, even if there is a child. If I was you I would get that ring back, until you can actually SEE that she wants this to work, not words...actions speaks louder then words my friend. Keep that in mind.

Again sorry you are here.

You did things in the wrong order. This is why you get married BEFORE you have kids. Now you are stuck between a rock and a hard place. Normally, I would say that if she cheats before you are married, I would kick her to the curb. Now because you have a daughter, that's different, especially since your custody rights are precarious at best do to the fact you had the baby BEFORE you got married.

So, if you are going to work this out, I would make a couple of recommendations. The first thing to do is to give her LESS space. SPACE is your enemy. Right now she is ADDICTED to the OM. Read up on plan A and start trying to meet her ENs and avoid LBs, but at the same time, I would expose the affair to her family and OM's family and friend. Go after him and chase him away from your fiance. Make his life he11 until he leaves your fiance alone. I would do everything in your power to cut off access to OM (block his email, facebook, block his number, change your phone number, etc.) until she gets through withdrawal. If she continues on with OM, boot her out, cut her off, and go to plan B (no contact period). I would also get a lawyer to look into your custodial rights.

If you do get through withdrawal and start working things out, don't get married right now. I wouldn't get married for at least two years after she finally cuts off all contact w/ OM. Now, this is the most important thing of all if you reconcile. PRENUP! Understand?

Do you live together?

Thank you all for the responses so far... I think more information is needed from me.

First, we do live together. We have lived together for over 5 years. During that time, she has always told me she wanted to marry me. I told her the same. I never had any doubt about my feelings toward her and wanted to be with her and only her. Forever. I realize NOW that her EN's were not being met by me these past few years. I was too caught up in making a career that would provide for us nicely for the rest of our life. I have no doubt that if I had officialy asked her to marry me even four months ago, or anytime before that, there would have been NO hesitation from her.

As far as the affair... I'm not sure it became physical, but definitely emotional. Due to the nature of our job, we both have the ability to see exactly where each other are when we go on trips. She has met this guy twice. The first was on a Boston layover. He was there for a business meeting and they realized they would be in the same city on that night. That was there first meeting. She told me all about her getting to see him because she had not seen him for years. She called me when they were at dinner. She called me later when they were done and she was back in her hotel room. She grew up with this guy and they have been life-long friends. They never dated when they were younger. He just went through a divorce. I suspect she told him she was not completely happy.

The next time they met was in Philly. She stayed at a friends house with our daughter. There was a small get-together with her co-workers and she wanted to take our daughter so her friends could see her. I know her co-workers and I know she stayed there. Nothing physical could have happened that night. She told me he was there, not at the time though, only after I found out about his developing feelings for my Fiance. He lives in Philly and we live in SC. I think that meeting was purley emotional.

BTW, we have always slept in the same bed together. She had talked about sleeping in another room, but never did. Then after the second confrontation about OM, she went into other room. It's been 4 nights alone now... We get along great during the day, but when bedtime comes, she seems to distance herself from me...

MMF, were you on the radio show yesterday? your situation sounds very similar to one aired yesterday. If it wasn't you, you can go listen to it until noon today at the Marriage Builder's Radio link above and click on 'Rebroadcast'

Something you need to understand is that living together =/= marriage. They are two different animals. Technically, your girlfriend has made no long term commitment to you and is free to do as she wishes. As what she wishes is to cavort with another man, you are free to dump her.

The problem is you decided to do things backwards. You decided family first, and then marriage. And now you have no protection for that family.

This is a very difficult situation because the typical advice may not apply, since she technically has never vowed to be with you. It is clear she WANTED to for a long time, and you ignored those desires and now she is on to someone else.

The best thing would be for the two of you to work this out, for the sake of your family and daughter.

In order to do that you need to EXPOSE her affair to everyone you know, including OMs family. Second, you need to prepare yourself for the possibility that they HAVE slept together. I'd suggest an STD test to stay on the safe side.

Next, you need to read up on Plan A. It involves demonstrating to your wife that you are WILLING and able to be a good partner, while at the same time REFUSING to allow OM into your life. It involves working to end the cheating. You let your GF know that you want to marry her and will be a good husband, but you will not tolerate this OM in your life. PERIOD.

Your GF needs to go No Contact with this man. Completely.

Good luck.

If this relationship doesn't work out I would advise you to never again live with someone not your wife, it is a recipe for disaster most times.

Thanks for your reply, very insightful. I DO want to work this out! I wish I could have seen this website when we first met! She is telling me she only wants to stay in other room for a few more days. She will try, and will come back. If that is true, I feel like forcing her to talk about our issues now, will push her further away.

I have been following the rules on this site and told her this change was for me, as well as her. She clams up when we talk about this issue. So I agreed not to talk about it for a few days so she would want to hang out with me, without that pressure. That has worked to an extent. We have been having family outings, watching movies together when our daughter goes to sleep. It's like we are happy again, it's just when bedtime comes, we go seperate ways...

She sleeps in the other room as an act of faithfulness to OM. I think it's good that you're letting things cool down a little, but I wouldn't suggest these sleeping arrangements continue much longer.

I agree, she feels that she is betraying the OM when she sleeps with you, I know it's sad, but I felt the same way when I was cheating.

MMF, you must insist on a No Contact letter from your fiancee as a condition of YOU staying in the relationship. She cannot talk to him ever again if you want your relationship to progress to a healthy marriage.

It isn't bad to establish your boundaries. This isn't 'talking about your issues', this is laying out what it will take for YOU to stay in this relationship. And you should NOT stay if she doesn't cut off contact promptly.

Avoiding a lot of relationship talk is a good idea, but you must be clear about what you will not tolerate: contact with OM. Continue doing the good, fun family things. Demonstrate that you will be an excellent husband and father.

There are two parts to your plan: being a good husband father and standing up for yourself by refusing to have OM in your life.

MissmyFA, I would like to explain that there is a huge difference between living together and being married. They are not the same. Your gf is a single woman who is a free agent. She is free to date because she is not committed. Living together is a renters agreement that is only in effect until something better comes along. When there is conflict in your relationship, she is free to look elsewhere. And she, apparently, has taken that option.

That is why I disagree that her relationship with this other man is an "affair' or that it would be right to treat it as such. This is not an affair. She has a new boyfriend and that is her right.

In my opinion, I would try to win her back, but I would not use the standard tactics of exposure, etc. That is not applicable in this case.

AND, if you do win her back, I would seriously consider splitting up and not living together again until you are married. If she will marry you, you will need to start all over to erase the BAD HABITS that come from living together. The bad habits developed while shacking up RUIN marriages.

If you can get her back and start over, I would IMPLORE you to get the book Buyers, Renters and Freeloaders and jump to the chapter about the "curse of living together before marriage." In it, Dr Harley gives a plan to turn such damaged relationships into buyers relationships.

For your child's sake, I hope you can pull this out. It will take alot of work, but I am pulling for you.

Living Together Before Marriage

continued here

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MelodyLane,
You certainly showed me a different perspective. Thank you. While we were not legally married, we have said numourous times that we would one day get married, and have both said we were committed to each other and nobody else. If I ever tried to contact an ex-GF, she would have been very hurt and upset. We agreed we were a couple and would make a life between just us. If a couple were dating, not even living together, for 5 years, is it OK for one to just start seeing another person? Would that hurt the longtime GF/BF? Sure it would. So while we were not actually married, we both considered ourselves in a marriage-like relationship. Does that piece of paper really mean that much? Other than in the eyes of the law? This is about the "relationship" as in the human element...

That's just the way I see it. I truly value what you said, I think it may change the way I think about a few things. So you think "exposure" is not proper in this case. How can I get her to agree to NC? Should I give her the space she wants? knowing that she will stay in contact with him? Or should I try to force NC?

Thank you for posting the links, I read them and they make good sense. I just want to do the right thing so I can be with the woman I love and keep our family intact...

Thanks again for the support

Also, I have told her I'm on this site and have learned a great deal from being here. I was contemplating asking her to come on this forum and read what has been written. Is that a good idea?

Sure! And I hope you get the book I referenced and read it together. Living together is a world away from marriage and I think understanding this dynamic will help you move forward in a positive way. I know you WANT to think they are same, but they are not in reality.

missmyFA,

I'm sorry we're not just jumping on and buying what you're saying about your love.

Saying you're going to get married and then taking 5 years to do it shows a problem.

The normal advice to give you would work if you were married, but you're not. So she's not having an affair.

She's cheating on you, but again, you're not committed to each other. Marriage is commitment. Living together is not.

So what do you do?

File for custody of your daughter and get her to stop cake eating. But exposure wouldn't work, since you're not married so there is no affair to expose. If you expose, people would tell her she's not married, so she can leave you if she wishes.

Well, it cuts both ways.

If you want her to come back to you, then you must play hardball.

But stop justifying how great your love was and how often you told each other you were going to get married. Saying and doing are two different things.

Sounds harsh, but that's the reality.

There is no affair. You're not married.

So now you have to either tell her to crap or get off the pot, but the last thing I'd advise you to do right now is get married.

You need to restore your relationship.

But she's gone from you emotionally. So this is a tough one to crack. She doesn't love you and is in love with someone else.

Your words about being in a "marriage-like" relationship ring hollow. You never said I do. You never looked into her eyes and swore before God and your family that you would be with her till you died.

THAT is a committment. Living together is not.

Pretending to be married is not.

I know I sound harsh, but that's just how it is.

How do you restore things?

I don't know. But I would start by having her stop the cake eating.

Exposure works and leads to no contact normally because there is family to pressure and usually another spouse to pressure the affair to end. No contact then becomes doable because one or both parties are getting so much pressure from family that is disgusted that adultery is taking place.

But you don't have that. You don't have adultery. You don't have a marriage.

You have a broken relationship and a daughter caught in the middle.

My advice? Get a lawyer, file for custody. Your relationship is pretty much over.

But get it through your head: you're not married and you never committed to each other.

MmF, I lived with my ex for 3 years, we were together for 4 total. I loved him like crazy. We made plans for our future together. We always said we were committed and knew we would get married one day. We subscribed to the 'it's just a piece of paper' idea. We acted like we were married.

Well we didn't get married. We were just 'acting'. It wasn't a marriage, as much as I thought it was at the time. It wasn't.

Having now been married to my DH for 5 years, I can tell you there is a WORLD of difference between the two.

I didn't realize it until I'd been married a couple years, but though I THOUGHT I was committed like I was married to my ex- in the back of my head, I always knew he was JUST my boyfriend. I always knew I could walk away. And so I addressed our conflicts in that way. I'd look for temporary fixes, to just 'get over' our problems. I knew that I was in a trial for marriage, not an actual marriage. Looking back now, I was a renter in that relationship.

I thought I was a buyer.

But now I know that I wasn't.

It wasn't until I was out of that relationship and saw what marriage is REALLY like, what sharing your life with someone REALLY requires that I could sense the difference.

There is a difference between knowing that SOMEDAY you'll make a commitment to live with your partner forever, believing that they're the one for you, and actually MAKING that commitment and knowing that there will never be anybody else because you've made your final choice.

Dating and living together is saying "I'm pretty sure this is it" Marriage is saying "This IS it".

Because we live in a society that VALUES marriage, we subconsciously recognize its value. It is very difficult to escape that, because it pervades our subconscious.

There is one couple that I know of, in all my experience that REALLY did make that commitment without the actual marriage. Guess what, when they moved to another state that didn't recognize their common law status, they had a civil ceremony because they recognized that marriage was more than a commitment, it was a shield for their family.

Most other couples that live together for marriage THINK they've made that commitment, but deep down, they really haven't.

Don't worry, there are many married people that are renters as well, and they have their own set of problems.

Recognizing the problem is the first step to overcoming it.

This quote is a good example of an oxymoron.

MmF, Marriage = committing yourself to one person and nobody else.
Living Together = arrangement of convenience.

If you weren't legally married, you were DATING. You were NOT committed. Dating is NOT commitment.

Until you understand and embrace this concept, I'm afraid you will not understand MB concepts.

It worries me even further that the two of you discussed it numerous times without acting on it. That sounds like, I dunno, talking about getting a pet some day, or going to the beach for vacation some day, going back to college to get your degree some day...it sounds to me like marriage never quite made it to your priorities list and was just a little inconvenient.