SB-

Everything you said is absolutely true. I believe every word of it. Sometimes I FEEL like my WH will NEVER admit the truth, that HE is to blame for this A and that HE contributed 50% to the state of our marriage before the A. I know that he is ruining his life and that the odds are against this A lasting. I know. Sometimes I FEEL like I'm the loser. I lost my H to a woman who in his eyes seems to be better than me. I know this is NOT true. Sometimes I FEEL like it is. I was watching a show with my parents the other night and vampira's ex boyfriend was a character on the show. That was a day that I started to think about everything that SHE must be and how much BETTER she must be for my WH because she is an accomplished actress and has money and has looks and has freedom. She can be carefree and meet my WH's needs bc she has no children and no one to care for but herself and my WH. She can always cast herself in the best light and make herself seem so much better than his wife. I KNOW that this is not truth. I ahve to repeat that to myself. It is a war, everyday. I have to constantly remind myself that God will not let this go unpunished. I believe that His word is true. You will reap what you sow. Also, I have trouble believing that I should forgive this woman. She is loving the fact that she helped to tear a man away from his wife and missed his son's birth for her. I know that it was 100% my WH choice, but she still played a part. And obviously, is not a Godly woman. Do I HAVE to forgive her? And wouldn't that come only if she stops what she's doin?

He's trying to provoke you into calling or texting him. That is one way that waywards sometimes try to break Plan B: They try to make you angry enough to get a response out of you. They will say rock-stupid things like the one above, or do stuff like bring the wh*re with him to pick up the kids, and anything else you can think of.

This works great for him for two reasons: First, he gets you to break Plan B and give him some attention, and second, if you get angry/upset/raging/crying he can just shrug his shoulders and say, "See? She's just crazy. Look at her. I can't even talk to her and I can't even bring a friend around her."

Be VERY careful of this. It's another reason for Plan B: To protect you from stuff like this because they WILL do it.

Dark, dark, dark.

Earlier you were asking about threads that might give insight into the wayward mind. Here's one of my favorites. You may be dealing with this sort of thing in the future.

http://forum.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2279757&page=1

Thanks for the link Mulan, I appreciate it! I read the whole thing today. My WH has said many of the things that the other waywards said about divorce. It's so amazing how they all say the same things. What do you think about the fact that I'm in iowa and he's in california as far as the children go? If he wants to see them he needs to come here. If we get D then he will still have to come here to see them because they are all 5 years old and under. His fantasy was to have me and the boys to come back to california to live with him, but we would just be "friends" and take care of the kids. Also, I do hear about people saying that the OW a lot of times is after money. WEll, what if the WH has no money? My WH is pretty much broke. He has awful credit and tons of debt. Why would a 40 year old woman want to get a 28 year old married man with no money??? She's an actress and has lots of money. she's also a personal trainer. she does good for herself financially. so maybe that is why she doesn't care if the man has money or not? would she really want to marry MY husband? that just seems absurd to me. and you all say that most affairs end. idk.last iknew my H and vampira were going strong. and he seemed real happy with his life. got rid of his b*tch wife and has a nice life now with his new woman.

Hun, a little 2x4. You really shouldn't know that they are going strong. How do you know this? Plan B is not just about you not directly communicating with him, it is also about you not knowing anything about him and refocusing your thoughts OFF of him. It is hard. You need to do it.

As far as what your WH is going to do to come and see the kids, that is up to him. Are you going to move back to Cali and live with him as he proposed? That would be crazy making.

And as far as WHY vampira would want to be with your WH. The fact is, it doesn't matter. Understanding WHY they are together does nothing to help you change anything. You may want to know, but would any answer really make it okay? I know nothing would make it okay for me.

You know, Tinkerbell, you can do a lot of speculating.

Let's say this thing WAS all your fault.

Fine.

Then, if you really were the crappiest wife in the entire world, was an affair on his part justified under the vows you two took? Was it justified under all that the Bible tells you?

NOPE.

His affair is simply a sin. There it is.

Whatever spin he tries to put on it, he cannot escape that fact. PERIOD.


Next thing:
Your speculation on your WH and the OW. Does OW want to marry him? Who knows - let's face it, the OW is getting her jollies dating a younger guy. That guy is broke, has 3 kids and a wife back home, and he can't put together enough money for a house, a great bottle of wine, or a new car if she wanted one.

She's over 40, she LIES about her age, she dates younger guys to feel younger, and works out all the time. What does this say to you about her need for "physical attraction"? What does this tell you about her attention span - especially if someone just a little more physically attractive...maybe younger...maybe with a few more bucks in his pocket comes along??????

She has little regard for commitment - look at her record. She disregards your husband's commitments, and her own.

Don't look forward to too much between the two of them - if it lasts, it won't be worth anything anyway.


Besides, all that? Your thoughts should be that if your WH chooses to remain out of the marriage, and with OW, consider what his "prize" really is. He "gets" a woman with no moral value, who places her own desires above those of his moral and ethical needs and responsibilities, is willing to commit adultery to have what she wants when she wants it, lies about her age, etc. What other lies do you suppose she tells - when these lies are so easy for her to PUBLICIZE???? So easy for anyone to calculate that she was 11 years old when she supposedly started college?????

Get real. This is no prize for him. Sooner or later, the shine will wear off, and he will know he is stupid. Whether or not it is soon enough FOR YOU is the question.


Then, you speculate about forgiving her.
You ask if you HAVE to.

Nope. You don't have to. You don't even have to think about it. At this point, this woman is still in the process of kicking you right in the face. Do you think the time is right to forgive?

I am one of the people here to ask about forgiving. I will tell you that at this point, you don't need to do that. And that sometime, maybe, down the road.......


when you are ready to stop being anchored to vampira for the rest of your life, you might just want to forgive her. But that will be for YOU

and NOT

for her.


For now, however, you don't need to think about that. You will know when that time is ripe.




SB

SL- The last I knew about him was a few months ago regarding him and vampira. I don't know anything about his life right now. I don't have any access to him and I don't try to. I just figured since he isn't trying to contact me anymore that him and Vampira are still going strong like they were when I started plan B. Idk. I know I need to stop focusing on what HE'S doing and what SHE's doing. I'm not thinking about it as much as I used to. But I still struggle. I just had a lot of questions going on in my mind regarding the OW and why is she better in his eyes and I know that's silly because whatever answer he would have would be stupid. I just want to be done with this hell. I have a lot more good days then I do bad days now, but I still find myself thinking about him and all the things he does with her.

SB-

Oh thank you thank you thank you!!!! I appreciate your insight. And I DO KNOW that this is not MY fault!!!! I do know that after all of you good people reminding me and reminding me that this is not about me or what I did or didn't do. I completely believe that and I am doing the best I can in fighting those thoughts that blame me.

And you are right, if my WH chooses to stay out of the M and be with OW then he will get a liar and a cheater and a hedonist. I wonder how long he will be able to put up with that! ha.


Also, I was wondering what any of you thought about how people become wayward and how do they stop? I know that I would be considered "wayward" early in my M, because I ran off and fed my alcohol addiction and had a ONS. I had no excuse for that and I was stupid. I did NOT justify it or anything like that. I was remorseful and really had trouble forgiving myself. I wasn't sure how to help my H at that time, I just gave him space. He seemed to want that. I did eventually forgive myself and I became better than I was. Would you say I was a typical wayward back then? Do you see any difference between drunken acts and one night stands compared to affairs?

Tink,

People become wayward because they have poor boundaries. They allow others to get too close and too personal when they should not, and then - like the frog in the pot of hot water - they gradually cook to death before they even realize it.

Boundaries.

Poor ones = wayward.

Good ones = faithful, even when your own ENs are not being met.

Ditto

I think people have affairs because they choose them.

Whether they are one night stands, short term affairs, sex for the sake of sex, long term affairs, or whatever - it doesn't matter. The end result does not matter - the fact is, the affairee chooses to have an affair.


There is a question placed before the mind: "Should I do this?"
Whether there is a long or short deliberation, doesn't matter.

Sometimes, people struggle for a long time before having an affair.
In the case of a chance meeting in a bar, and a ONS in a drunken encounter, a very short deliberative process.

Either way, the question is placed before the mind: "Should I do this?"

Options weighed, consequences reviewed, and in the end, the person CHOOSES.


Affairs are a CHOICE.


After the choice is made - that's when the blameshifting happens, the justifying, the "reasons" start flying about.


The truth is, a ONS is no better, and no worse, than a long-term affair, in my mind. The only difference is that the choice for a LTA is made over and over and over and over. Each and every time the rendevous occurs.


Ultimately - you are responsible for the choice to have an affair. Your WH is responsible for the choice to have an affair.



What a person does in the aftermath makes the difference in his or her own future. At this point, your WH isn't doing so well in that department.


SB

That makes sense. I did CHOOSE to have a ONS. I can say that if I had not been drinking that night then I never would've made that choice, but I knew full well that when I drink my boundaries go bye bye. I knew that I was putting myself in a bad situation and I allowed myself to do it and I made the choice to go with another man. I know that I was remorseful and I was willing to do whatever my H wanted me to do in order to stay married and work it out. I was under the impression that he had forgiven me. And I never ever went down that path again. As for my WH, it seems that he LIKES what he is doing and is continuing in his behavior. That's the one difference I see between a ONS and a LTA, is the fact that in a LTA the betrayer is choosing over and over and over again to cheat on their spouse. To me that seems like the betrayer is not at all feeling guilty or like they are sinning. I felt awful and so guilty for what I had done. IT just kind of shocks me that my WH has little to no guilt or remorse. I could admit to him what I had done and I took responsibility for it. He has taken NO responsibility. tHat just seems to be the difference to me.. Not htat I'm better than him, I know that I'm not. If not for Christ I would be living wayward constantly.

Also, with a ONS there is not emotional connection and no R. So,I know that doesn't make it "better" than a LTA, but atleast there is no connection on an emotional level. I think that is one of the things that hurts the most, is that my WH is choosing this vampira over me constantsly. He puts her on a pedestal and shares all of his feelings that he never shared with me, now with her. He'd give his life for her but for me he just throws me out with the trash. Idk. I am pretty sure that even though I had a ONS I would not have chose that man over my H, I didn't even know the guy. THat's really bad in it's own but if it had been someone I had known, it oculd've turned into a LTA.

Also, I am trying to decide if I should take the car from my WH.......he is driving our car that is in MY name and my dad's name. WH is not registered with that car. My dad and I are splitting the car payment because if we don't pay it then it will affect my credit and his. We also pay for the insurance. WH has not sent any money besides the two times that he sent a measley $200. The car payment alone is $220 and the insurance is $110. He has not paid one red cent for it. My dad wants to fly out to CA and take the car. Do you think this is a good idea?

Dad should go get his car since he is your joint owner of it.

WH shouldn't be driving around a car that isn't his that he isn't paying for.

My 2cents.

No free rides for the boy.

@tb -

First, if Dad does go get car. Have all legal papers in order. Copy of insurance, copy of registration. All the things to show that Dad owns the car.

Second, find if the local police where the car is going to be picked up from does a courtesy call. This is where the police show up and make sure that no altercation occurs. They will not interfere in any way. They are there to keep the peace. Iterate to Dad to not get involved emotionally. He will be there to just pick up the car, that rightfully belongs to him.

Third, do not use any of this information to leverage your WS. Any information that you are repossessing the car will lead to WS hiding it.

Ditto to what Clark said. My experience with my wayward xh is that a wayward will find whatever path of least resistance exists and also do whatever they can to take care of themselves (including spending less money on obligations, more on affair and their new life) than responsibilities.

Do all that. And def do not let on what you are about to do.

Every action has an equal and sometimes opposite reactions. Why is it so hard for waywards to figure this out? lol!

Stay in charge..you can do it! Wishing you well.

Okay, we are going to do it. And my dad has been getting all the papers together today. I am a little nervous about this, only because I wonder if my WH will be so mad that he will file for D and try to get the kids from me. I don't know why I'm still worried about that. We are in plan B and that is what D will be like anyway. I just hate him so much right now.

Do you think this will make my WH so angry that there will be no hope for reconciliation in the future? How sad is it that I'm concerned with how HE will feel about this.

Of course it will make the wayward mind mad. He has a sense of entitlement to all the things he wants when he wants them.
It won't make or break your marriage.

Fact is....the car is yours and your father's and your dh is paying nothing on it and carrying on his philandering on someone elses buck and reputation.

He will be mad cause you can't get too far without a car in Los Angeles or whereever he is in good ole California.

OW will have to drive him around from then on.

He will be pissed but if it is done with matter of fact "We need this car more than you and its mine (Daddy says)", he will eventually 'get' it. If he comes out of the infamous fog....he will understand.

If he is so riled up to go after this he files for D or tries to get the kids....he will be woefully surprised that he is biting off his own foot. You think he wants the kdis to muck up the fantasy land with older OW? Nope. He wouldn't be able to live the cool, hip life caring for them and frankly, what judge would give them to him.

You will be in no worse position AND it is your Dad who is taking back his car, not you. Make that clear to Dad.

Anything short of taking the possession of the car is enabling the behaviour. I bet OW rides in said car often. I say this not to upset you but to point out she is liking that vs driving HIM!

Hugs.

I just might be able to get evidence from the car as well! Haha. since the last I talked to him before plan B he was still claiming that he never had sex with her and that she was "just a friend". I just want ANY physical evidence to use in court if I have to, if it comes to D, or just to throw it in his face that he's a liar and a cheater. I absolutely want my car back and I'm gonna tell Dad to go ahead and get it!

Well, don't count on that. Put that daydream, pie in the sky hope against hope in your pocket for what it is.
Basically, Dad will take it home cause it is the right thing to do. Fetch a car he is responsible for from an irresponsible young man who doesn't get the free ride anymore.
He wants freedom from the family....he gets it. Financially speaking....he must pay spousal and child support whether he stays away in timbuktu or comes back to you. You and Daddy will not financially support him.
It is logical to fetch the car. There is no logic in not doing so. YK?