So I guess we all managed to answer the question....

Couldn't a single woman avoid the problem by the same action...or lack there of?
And by answering my scenerio in this way I will understand that to mean you don't have the ability to actually pose an argument related to the scenerio I wrote?

Of course, it works either way. But this discussion is framed around the OP, who in your scenario is a man.

Not sleeping with someone you aren't married to IS an argument related to your scenario.

In fact it is the only solution to the problem.

But why are you getting caught up in a hypothetical scenario? This scenario has nothing to do with yours: in which you selfishly had an affair with a selfish skank and destroyed your marriage. And your wife who selfishly had her own affair.

All these problems would have been avoided if you only had sex with someone you were married to.

I had sex outside of marriage with my ex - it was selfish. Motivated purely by my desire to have my need for SF met without having to make the commitment of marriage that using the ability to procreate requires.

When I dated my husband we waited until our wedding night to have sex. Because we selflessly realized that until we said the words we weren't committed and were a child to be the result of our selfish inability to wait, the innocent child would suffer the consequences of that selfishness.

Why are you getting caught up in lawyering a hypothetical scenario? Is it really that hard to look at yourself and the skank you climbed into bed with?

Narcissists. Liars. Snakes. Cowards. Losers. I think OPs are a good deal more than just selfish.

I addressed your scenario, point by point, yet you've failed to respond to me as far as I can tell.

Why should folks keep answering if you are going to ignore and/or fail to acknowledge that folks have answered.

Your failure to accept the answers given in no way means no answers have been provided.

Answers have been provided and some who've provided answers have not been acknowledged.

I guess I'm at a loss as to understand what difference the gender makes. Man or woman, whenever you're pulling out your private parts to exchange bodily fluids with someone, if you'll check to see if you're actually married to someone, you'll completely avoid scenarios where you actually "unselfishly" sleep with someone who is married.

I gave a 100% foolproof way of avoiding the scenario you wrote. Your scenario absolutely depends on selfish behavior: sleeping with someone you're not married to.

I have (and continue to) acknowledge my selfish behavior and that of the OW I was with.

I am only replying with that scenerio because I absolutely loathe when people pretend EVERYTHING is black/white in every situation. For someone to call upon something to always be 100% absolute is foolish.

I'm not defending myself at all nor am I trying to lessen the selfishness of my actions in any way.

When it comes to sex outside of marriage it IS black/white.

Sex outside of marriage is selfish because you only think of yourself and your hormones, not the harm potentially caused to children that may be conceived.

Sex isn't just about you. And it isn't just about your partner. It is also about any potential children you create.

Sex isn't a right, it is a privileged and a responsibility. You are obligated to be responsible, because irresponsibility doesn't harm just you but innocents.

Thus it's as black and white as: are you married to the person you are about to have sex with? That is a yes or no type of question.

If the answer is no - then you are acting selfishly.
If the answer is yes - then you may not be acting selfishly (though it's still possible)

And I say this as someone who had sex outside of marriage and lived with my ex for 3 years, completely loved him and wanted to have a family with him some day.

I was selfish then. Thinking about my needs, my desire for a relationship with him, my hormones. I shudder to think what I would have done had a child resulted. I thank God every day an innocent didn't have to suffer for my selfishness.

Sleeping with someone else's spouse is always selfish, 100% of the time. This particular issue is about as black and white as they come.

Stop working with your OW, defog and then come back and see if it makes more sense.

hmmmm I am pretty certain that fools don't think clearly at all. They seem to be crippled with the gray, fuzzy thinking you described.

And I know you "loathe" black and white thinking. That is a byproduct of a wayward mind. I was once the same way. It is because the truth is black and white, and a wayward is on the run from the truth.

Right, people who say they disagree with you actually agree with you deep down inside, and are only pretending to see things a different way.

When people do this to you, have you ever considered addressing it as an honest difference of opinions?

I absolutely loathe when people pretend that ADULTERY is okay in any situation.

I love that you think you have me figured out. You don't though. I am NOT (and have not) defended adultery. I have no problem with disagreements. People have such a differing view of the world that it would be impossible to agree on everything.

This discussion has certainly taken a turn towards unproductive. I will not and have not defended adultery. All I have done was to defend my position against absolute black/white situations at ALL times.

This is the same line of thinking that would say killing another person is NEVER okay because the Bible says thou shalt not kill. Black and white = never okay to kill. Reality of the situation is there are several justifiable reasons (IMO) to take another man's life. But that's not what the Bible says.

Then someone needs to do a bit more study on religion. The commandment is actually Thou shall not murder. NOT Thou shall not kill.


Unlawful killing is what we in English would term Murder. VERY different scenario than killing.

Sometimes killing is necessary, in war, or in self defense.

It is NEVER ok to murder.

Maybe do a bit of research before you decide to get on your soap box and lecture people about morality.

Source

Thats not black and white thinking, that is the foggy thinking of an ignorant person who takes scripture out of context.

But I do appreciate your honesty when you say that you have "gray" thinking. I have noticed a fuzziness in your posts and applaud your honesty. I will take that into account when reading your posts.

Explain how this is NOT defending adultery. You are basically saying that adultery isn't a black/white issue, implying that, under certain circumstances, it is okay.

p.s. Moral relativists who complain that there are no "moral absolutes" always expect others to treat THEM with moral absolutes. They just don't want their own behavior to be judged with moral absolutes. They are phonies.

For example, I have never met a MR who didn't expect his banker to treat his money with moral absolutes. Every MR I know would howl to the moon if his banker confiscated his money and justified it by saying "don't be so black and white!!" Or if someone punched out a MR, would it be justifiable if the puncher said "don't be so black and white!!"

In other words, Captain, if there are no "moral absolutes" [a self refuting statement in the first place becuase it is a statement of absolute truth, which you have said does not exist] then you have no grounds to complain if your banker steals your money and if someone punches you out..

Not to mention that saying there are no moral absolutes is in fact a moral absolute. Therefore such a claim is a self-contradicting statement. However, a statement cannot be both true and false at the same time, breaking the logical law of non-contradiction.

Even that is your own subjective opinion; you might find it unproductive; others might find it productive.

Interestingly enough, despite the larger discussion here about moral absolutes, one of the best things Marriage Builders has done for me is teach me to be more respectful by not treating my own opinions as absolute truth so much. This has especially helped me in my relationship with my wife, but also in my relationships with other people.

So instead of saying that a discussion is unproductive, my preference would be to say "I'm not really getting a lot out of this discussion; what are yall getting out of it?" Or even to just exit the discussion entirely.