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wulffpack_girl #2429685 09/24/10 11:33 AM
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WPG,

The thing about being forgiven for anything is that for it to have any affect on the one that is forgiven, the forgiveness must be accepted.

If you look at the song you quoted above, it points out a very important piece of what it means to be forgiven by God. It isn't that He simply forgives our debt, but rather that He PAID our debt in full Himself and credited it to our account.

We were in bondage to our sins and what we had not just become but what we had really been all along. We were being held captive by our human nature and doing what WE believed we had the right and entitlement to do. He did not just agree to let those things slide, but rather paid the ransom so that we might be set free from those very things that prevented us from obeying Him.

True repentance does not merely imply a change in the way we act. It isn't just no longer doing the things we once did but coming to an understanding that the things we did were not justified by anything we might have attributed them to or to them. Real repentance is a change in the way we think and it is the change in our thinking that leads us to act differently.

So if we have truly been forgiven by God, we haven't just had our debts wiped clean; that debt has been paid in full, just not by us. The ledger now has as it's only entry the payment made on our behalf by the one to whom we owed the real debt to begin with. We don't just begin with a clean slate but with a clean nature as well.

Forgiveness by other people takes longer at times because they are under no obligation to cancel the debt we owe them. This is why Dr Harley talks of Just Compensation and not just unmerited forgiveness in cases of betrayal. It becomes up to us to supply the payment our spouse needs from us so that our debt might be paid in full. If they choose to vanquish any part of the debt it is entirely their choice and until they wipe the books clean it is up to us to continue paying the debt off until it can be credited as paid in full. Once the forgiveness is offered, it still remains up to us to accept it before it has any real affect on us.

As long as the one we wronged is willing to accept our payments, it means we can continue to pay down the debt until they either forgive the remainder or we know the debt has been paid entirely. Considering our vows of faithfulness until death, that gives us a long time to work off the debt we owe.

Mark

Mark1952 #2429778 09/24/10 03:26 PM
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Mark, thank you for the insightful post!

Originally Posted By: Mark1952
The thing about being forgiven for anything is that for it to have any affect on the one that is forgiven, the forgiveness must be accepted.

And that's one hurdle right there - I have to come to accept God's forgiveness. Believe it. Trust it. Trust that He knows my character and condition of my heart better than I do. That He is able to separate the sin from the sinner, where we as humans get bogged down and often define ourselves by our actions.

Originally Posted By: Mark1952
True repentance does not merely imply a change in the way we act. It isn't just no longer doing the things we once did but coming to an understanding that the things we did were not justified by anything we might have attributed them to or to them. Real repentance is a change in the way we think and it is the change in our thinking that leads us to act differently.

And that's where creating - and holding fast to - our boundaries and EPs fits in, right? Where the guiding principles of marriage fit in - recognizing where we screwed up before, understanding why and how we screwed up, and changing our mindset. Leading our hearts.

Do you think, though, that sometimes our actions can change our thinking? Sort of the idea of "fake it till you make it"? Like doing the Love Dare - the 40 days of focusing on loving your spouse, even if in the beginning you're having to practically stand on your head to avoid saying something negative. Or then again, maybe the change in thinking still has to come first - the change in thinking being "I'm committing to such-and-such" and then following through, even though at first our actions might not be exactly spot-on.


Originally Posted By: Mark1952
Forgiveness by other people takes longer at times because they are under no obligation to cancel the debt we owe them. This is why Dr Harley talks of Just Compensation and not just unmerited forgiveness in cases of betrayal. It becomes up to us to supply the payment our spouse needs from us so that our debt might be paid in full. If they choose to vanquish any part of the debt it is entirely their choice and until they wipe the books clean it is up to us to continue paying the debt off until it can be credited as paid in full. Once the forgiveness is offered, it still remains up to us to accept it before it has any real affect on us.

As long as the one we wronged is willing to accept our payments, it means we can continue to pay down the debt until they either forgive the remainder or we know the debt has been paid entirely. Considering our vows of faithfulness until death, that gives us a long time to work off the debt we owe.


As long as DH will accept my payments, I will gladly do all I can to pay my debt to him. I think that by doing that, by working to be the best wife and mother that I can, it will help me in some way to begin forgiving myself, and help me to fully accept the forgiveness that God gives.

And even if DH never forgives me, even if we end up not making it, then I still have to work on me.

We actually had a nice lunch together and I am feeling good...I'd sent him a website of funny ringtones that he was looking at when I got home, and we sat together and talked about some things that are going on with my parents and my brother, and he listened and offered his input and oh! it was nice! I sent him a text when I got back from work thanking him for having lunch with me and that I enjoyed spending time w/him.

Now this weekend I expect to be helping him drag downed trees all over the yard...lol not my idea of fun but I'm gonna get out there and work by his side!


FWW

"Snow and adolescence are the only problems that disappear if you ignore them long enough." ~ Earl Wilson
wulffpack_girl #2429830 09/24/10 06:06 PM
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Quote:
Now this weekend I expect to be helping him drag downed trees all over the yard...lol not my idea of fun but I'm gonna get out there and work by his side!
Wulffpack, has it ever occured to you that perhaps that really is all there is to life?

I mean that we get to share our life with someone is really as good as it gets. You working with your H side by side, is really what it is all about girl.

God Bless,

JL

wulffpack_girl #2429835 09/24/10 06:18 PM
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WPG,

The thing to remember about God's forgiveness is that HE paid the debt already. He offers forgiveness based not on what we have done or promise to do but based entirely on His willingness to give us the chance to try.

As for the fake it till you make it thing...

The way feelings follow actions has to do with changing our attitudes based on the results that come from doing what is right. We DO the right things so that we can feel the benefit of having done the right thing. The repentance part of it is KNOWING and acknowledging that the way we DID things in the past was NOT right and now we will do the right things because we want to do them right.

See, when we sin, we think we are doing what is right. That's the whole point of sin. We BELIEVE we have the right to decide what is and what is not sin. We define sin and right and wrong in our own terms. This relates to all sin and not just adultery. We feel we are entitled to our own choices based on how we feel rather than on what God requires.

As it relates to marriage and affairs, this means that we believed we were right to do things that either we could prevent from affecting our spouse or we could do things that were right for us but wrong for our spouse. That is the myth that leads to an affair, that we even have the right to choose based on what we feel at the time rather than on a clear view of what is right and what is wrong.

Infidelity is always wrong. When asked if they believe that to be true, 90% of people all over the world would say that they accept that premise. Even in societies where polygamy (more than one wife) and polygyny (more than one husband) are practiced, adultery is considered wrong. Yet some estimates in our own society suggest that between 60% and 80% of all marriages are affected by infidelity. To me, this says that people don't really believe what they say they do because they believe right and wrong are situational rather than clearly defined concepts.

What happens when we start to do something wrong is that we first redefine it as not wrong or not AS wrong as something else we find more disagreeable. We tell ourselves that we are entitled to have this opinion based on what we feel at the time. We turn what even we would say as wrong into something that isn't wrong because we haven't yet crossed some line we have said is where we would be wrong. The problem with this sort of thing is that when we do it, we are taking upon ourselves the decision as to where that line should be drawn rather than leaving it where it really belongs.

We put up walls of lies and secrecy, not around our relationship with our spouse but between us. We open windows between ourselves and this other person who is triggering the reward center in our brain and what we need to do is to reverse this process entirely. We need the walls to be AROUND the marriage and the windows to our spouse to remain open at all times.

The change in thinking needs to be that we will never allow that to take place. We need to keep the walls of protection not around ourselves to prevent our spouse from finding out what we are doing, but around the marriage so that others can't enter into the same kind of relationship we are to have with our spouse.

When we start down the road to an affair, we have already decided against protecting the marriage when we left the windows open. The walls of secrecy we build are to protect us from the consequences of what we have chosen to do and so by admitting that there might be negative consequences of what we are doing, we are actually agreeing that what we are doing is wrong.

This is how we commit any sin, but cheating on our spouse is especially obvious when we see the results of having cheated and the destruction of the person we promised to love, honor and protect all the days of our lives.

EPs are what we need to do to protect ourselves from what we have identified as weakness within ourselves. They are boundaries we construct to stop us from being selfish and following the road to entitlement we once followed. They keep us from being put in a place where only our will and commitment can save us from making the wrong choice because we already know that our will and commitment alone cannot prevent us from committing the same sin again.

You see, God does not require us to change in order that He might pay the price for what we have done. Rather HE paid the price, willingly, knowing that some would accept that as payment for their debt while others would not. For us to be forgiven by God we only need to come to the place of acknowledgment that we did in fact believe we had the right to decide what was right for ourselves. It isn't a feeling that we have been forgiven, but accepting what He has paid as full payment of our debt. It is coming to the understanding that we could never fully pay the debt and that no matter what we might do, the debt would remain unpaid except for His grace and the payment He already made.

Dr Harley's most basic premise is that whatever we do once we are married, it affects our spouse. This can be either a negative effect or a positive one. It either enhances the marriage relationship or diminishes it. If we consider the outcome before we act, then our actions should take this into account for every action and choice that we embark upon. It sometimes requires that we override our feelings and act from what is right and not just what we think is right for us at the moment in time we find ourselves in.

Mark

Just Learning #2429946 09/25/10 10:41 AM
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Originally Posted By: Just Learning
Wulffpack, has it ever occured to you that perhaps that really is all there is to life?

I mean that we get to share our life with someone is really as good as it gets. You working with your H side by side, is really what it is all about girl.


You know what JL? If that's all there is to life, that's more than enough for me. I'll live my life gladly and will never take DH or my marriage for granted again. I couldn't ask for anything better than to be by his side, to be his partner, for as long as I live.


FWW

"Snow and adolescence are the only problems that disappear if you ignore them long enough." ~ Earl Wilson
Mark1952 #2429949 09/25/10 11:00 AM
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Thank you Mark - I liked the image of the walls and windows. It reminded me very much of the book I read that was about building hedges around your marriage.

Originally Posted By: Mark1952
The thing to remember about God's forgiveness is that HE paid the debt already. He offers forgiveness based not on what we have done or promise to do but based entirely on His willingness to give us the chance to try.


I'm glad He gives us that chance. I need to be a better person. If my marriage doesn't survive this storm (and some days I'm more hopeful than others), then I still need to do it for me. I need to do it for my children. My behavior was in no way a good example for them. I can't stop them from making mistakes in life, but I can give them an example of how to do what's right, to build boundaries and how to love and respect their husbands. And I will love and respect him whether he makes the choice to be here or not.

Originally Posted By: Mark1952
The way feelings follow actions has to do with changing our attitudes based on the results that come from doing what is right. We DO the right things so that we can feel the benefit of having done the right thing. The repentance part of it is KNOWING and acknowledging that the way we DID things in the past was NOT right and now we will do the right things because we want to do them right.


The Christian counselor we've been seeing has said something very similar, about how feelings can be unreliable and can influence attitude in a negative way - but that if we begin with our actions, they influence our attitude and eventually our feelings follow suit.

Originally Posted By: Mark1952
For us to be forgiven by God we only need to come to the place of acknowledgment that we did in fact believe we had the right to decide what was right for ourselves. It isn't a feeling that we have been forgiven, but accepting what He has paid as full payment of our debt. It is coming to the understanding that we could never fully pay the debt and that no matter what we might do, the debt would remain unpaid except for His grace and the payment He already made.


Thank you, Mark - that was a very helpful explanation for me.


FWW

"Snow and adolescence are the only problems that disappear if you ignore them long enough." ~ Earl Wilson
wulffpack_girl #2430075 09/26/10 07:48 AM
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DH is back in withdrawal again. He's here, but he's not here, KWIM? We're still doing stuff together as a family and he's not pushing me away when I try to cuddle with him on the couch, but he doesn't reciprocate. He did reject my advances for SF Friday night, and I haven't tried again nor has he shown any interest. We talk about stuff about the house and financial stuff but that's about it.

Regardless I started working on a gift for him. I'd read one another post about the compliments A-Z thing - I went and bought a small journal and have started working on that - making a little book for him of not just compliments, but things that remind me of him - songs, places, things, etc. Our anniversary is next month so originally thought about giving it to him then, but may give it to him before. Have another idea for the anniversary - I want to buy him a new wedding ring and give it to him while we're away. We're going to the mountains and we'll probably do some hiking - I thought about giving it to him while we're there, I don't know, up on a mountaintop or something....he may not want to wear it and may not accept it...good idea or bad idea?

I'm going to go ahead and try to set up coaching with the Harleys this week, for me at least. I have one more appointment with our counselor, he'd suggested leaving one more appointment on the books in case DH decided he wanted to join me. But I agree with DH, counseling - or at least our counselor's approach - is not really helping. The counselor feels like DH is sitting on the fence, he's stuck, and he is comfortable where he's at. He said it's not even a matter right now of DH trusting me, it's that DH has to decide to trust in God, that whatever happens that God is strong enough to bring him through it. He (the counselor) had heard of the Harleys' work, although he just mentioned HNHN...I asked if it would be helpful for us to work through it and he said it wouldn't do any good if DH did not want to apply it, or something to that effect.

I just need to somehow deal with the feelings I have of rejection. Focus on the fact that he's still here, he hasn't left, at least physically.

EDIT TO ADD: No kiss goodbye this morning. He allows me to be close to him but doesn't initiate anything. If I go to kiss him, he keeps his face turned from me. Folds his hands on his chest and keeps them there tight if I'm curled up next to him in bed. It's so frustrating, I know I brought this on myself but I can't help feeling hurt. It's like trying to love a rock.

I'm still working on my A-Z book. Both DD's saw me working on it yesterday, they were so funny. DD #1 asked if I was making Daddy an alphabet book because he can't remember his alphabet. DD #2 said matter-of-factly, "Oh, yeah, I forget my alphabet all the time." DD #2 almost spoiled the suprise, DH was telling her that if she'd eat all her dinner he'd give her a suprise, and she says, "OOH! Like Mommy is making a suprise for you?" I told her shh! and whispered that it was a secret! smile

Told him I had meeting scheduled today and may not be able to get home for lunch. Not looking forward to said meetings as I actually have to focus on work, otherwise I'd be doing the same thing I do every day and obsessing over this forum and trying to find a way to help him/us.

FYI - our email addresses at work changed over the weekend - I couldn't change my work email before. OM never emailed me at work but now that's just one more way contact is impossible.

I'm looking forward to going away our anniversary weekend, but a big part of me is afraid he'll back out and decide not to go.

We did watch one of the shows we regularly DVR last night and made snarky comments about it like we've always done, we go all "Mystery Science Theater" on it and DH is a hoot.

I got out yesterday and worked in the yard, helping clean up some limbs that had gotten knocked down when DH was cutting trees. He had actually gone to get a part for one of the cars and when he came home I was out there working. Both DD's had been out with me earlier but both got tired and quit (DD#1 quit first, she had to wash her hand about 3 times b/c they got sticky with sap, then at one point she disappeared inside the house and reappeared with a popsicle - sat down and watched me and DD#2 work - DH said she was going to grow up to be a boss, lol!)

I miss him.

Last edited by wulffpack_girl; 09/27/10 07:00 AM.

FWW

"Snow and adolescence are the only problems that disappear if you ignore them long enough." ~ Earl Wilson
wulffpack_girl #2430619 09/28/10 09:19 AM
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I really like the wedding ring idea wulfpack girl, I thought of doing that too.

Too early in my recovery for that kind of thing, but its definetly something to think about.

I catch up on your thread now and again, you seem to be making great progress. Whats your secret?!!

Like they said its a rollercoaster of emotions and you take the good with the bad. Do you sometimes hot a brick wall and feel like giving up? I have those moments.

Best of luck to you, Hitch


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Nothing much new to report. Just tired and drained. I wasn't expecting DH to come home so early from work today and I was half out in the garage and he overheard me gumping back at my mom, who'd come over to watch the kids. Mom was asking me about DH's schedule b/c they wanted to go see my grandma (in a nursing home) this week and did DH have an appointment tomorrow? I groused that I had no idea, we didn't communicate about that stuff and he pipes up from behind me, "I'm sitting right here." So I turned around and asked him if he had an appointment tomorrow and he said yes (with his IC). Said goodbye and left for work. Feel awful he heard me being b*itchy this morning. I'm sure it was a LB for him but lately I have been on the recieving end of so many LB's that I just feel sick.

I know he's got every reason to treat me like dirt after what I did to him. I just feel like he's never going to recover from the hurt I caused him, no matter what I do. We lived together more like roommates before all this happened, we weren't trying to meet each other's needs before. If he's not willing to engage in MB with me, I get to the point where that's all I see for the future. It's not just the lack of affection, attention/admiration, and SF. It's things like how he's stopped doing "extra" stuff around the house to help me out - helping with the laundry, for example. He still cooks, but we used to take turns, one of us cleaning up the dinner mess while the other gave the kids a bath. Now I do both, without saying a word of complaint, while he sits on the couch. There's no UA time since watching TV together does not count. The only things we talk about are spending money. I used to complain about his spending when I was managing all the finances but now that he's pretty much taken that over I don't say anything negative, if he wants to spend money on something then so be it.

I'm so frustrated because I KNOW we could have a great marriage. I know that it will take him time to heal from what I did and I understand that - and I understand I can't dictate how long that process takes. I guess it's just this feeling I have that he's not so much healing but sitting on the fence with one foot in and one foot out - or like he said in his email, one foot out the door. He may not want to leave but he doesn't really want to stay, either. And I keep trying to do all these things to meet his needs, but because he won't give me any feedback I am just flailing around. I just want *something*, you know? A hug out of the middle of nowhere. Him to wrap his arm around me while we sit on the couch. Him to curl up behind me in bed. A random smile, or a text for no reason other than he was thinking about me.

Just got my response back from MB about coaching sessions. Will most likely end up taking the session tomorrow evening. Any advice/suggestions from those of you who've had a session before? It will probably be just me - I doubt DH will want to participate. Just curious as to how these sessions are structured.

EDIT TO ADD - Have session scheduled w/Jennifer tomorrow evening.

Last edited by wulffpack_girl; 09/28/10 10:57 AM. Reason: update

FWW

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lol Hitch, I was posting while you were - takes me forever to post here at work, people keep coming in and out of my office (it's like they think I actually work!!!)

Yeah, I do feel like I hit a brick wall. A lot. As you can see from the post I just left, I feel like I am currently banging my head against one now. We're basically roommates. Granted, one roommate tries to be affectionate to the other and tell him that she loves him, but the other roommate is just civil and tries to avoid her.

It's funny that you say I seem to be making progress...I guess it is one step forward, two steps back. Sometimes for me progress is hard to see. I couldn't see that DH was in conflict earlier (last week) until some of the other posters pointed it out to me. Maybe it's just that I want progress faster.

Read your post earlier - know you are on that rollercoaster but I am glad you are feeling good!!! Obviously something you are doing is getting thru to your H!!!


FWW

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Hiya Wulffpack

God this is bloody awful!! I know EXACTLY how your feeling. 1 step forward and then 2 steps back and then you have a good day and everything is forgotten.

I know what you mean about the room mates thing. I hate that. It has been 7 months now for me and I am reaching my limit.

If you knew back when you met OM, what you know now, how different would things be?!! I am almost like a nun at the moment, if a man even looks at me I run the other way..

Its funny what you say about "something", I was telling SH all about the fact that my H brought me a cake, the first thing he did for me 5 months after discovery day. SH said, yes but doesn't it feel great and I was like yeah! lol, you gotta laugh, a cake...but it was "something".

I have had a few sessions with Steve Harley, and it has helped. I really set up the sessions with SH to try and get H on board, his first session he went quiet but his 2nd session he got really angry afterwards, but whatever it did it got us talking, even to conflict.

They gave you a plan each session, and my last session was about crossing the SF barrier and try to open up some kind of affection, so I guess I have done that one...

Jessitaylor has given me lots of good advice and to be honest, that has moved things forward a bit. Telling him I love him and will fight for the marriage and that I am not giving up. He seemed to respond a little to that.

This is tough, keep going, will keep an eye on your thread.


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Originally Posted By: wulffpack_girl
EDIT TO ADD - Have session scheduled w/Jennifer tomorrow evening.


Hooray! This will be a really good step in your recovery. Jennifer has a great deal of experience working with spouses who don't want to work with her. I'm sure she'll help you. If it's possible for your spouse to be home while you're having your session, that would be a good idea. Typically you won't want him in the room with you -- too much of a chance of Love Busters -- but there might be some chance he's willing to talk to her, and that could bring about some amazing changes.

It did for me.


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Originally Posted By: Hitch2007
If you knew back when you met OM, what you know now, how different would things be?!! I am almost like a nun at the moment, if a man even looks at me I run the other way..


Definitely, Hitch. If I could do it all over again, I'd run screaming in the opposite direction. And not just from the OM before the A started - I'd run screaming from him when I was 18 and met him the first time. At 18, if I'd known that being involved with OM would someday ruin my marriage with the man I would truly fall in love with, someone who is a million times the man that OM is or ever was or ever could be, I would have waited for DH to come into my life. It's funny you say that about being like a nun, I do the same thing. I get very uncomfortable talking to the men I work with now, I am definitely not as friendly or as open here at work as I was in the past. I do not like recieving compliments from men. I'd be much more comfortable if they'd just ignore me, lol...

I've thought a lot about quitting my job this year - and especially recently - but don't know how we'd manage financially. And I know it wouldn't be a real solution because I'd end up resenting it - when my head is on straight, I DO enjoy my work. I have a pretty cool job and if I'm actually applying myself I can be good at it. And I think a lot of my unhappiness at work these days just stems from everything else - it's not like I never had frustrations at my job, but things don't "roll off my back" like they used to - plus I used to come home and vent to DH about my day - something that came out early in our FR was that he'd always hated it when I did that, but he also came to understand that I needed it. Now that I know he hates me venting about work, I try to avoid it, which leaves me with no one to vent to. And consequently, it may end up LBing him anyway because if I DON'T talk about my day then he may think I am not being O&H...ahhh, the conundrum!!!!

When DD#2 was born I quit working FT and essentially became a SAHM, working from home teaching college classes online. It was tough and I struggled with not having any real "adult" contact during the day, plus I carried the bulk of the housework and childcare for the girls (which was extremely tough at first, they are less than a year and a half apart, so had the whole "2 under 2" thing, 2 in diapers, etc) and ended up doing my work late at night after everyone had gone to bed. It was not unusual for me to be grading papers at 1-2:00 in the morning and then up the next morning with the girls (or throughout the night with DD#2 as I exclusively breastfed her). Once they got older it was easier, but I ended up getting burnt out on the online classes. Just got sick of dealing with them. And we ran up a LOT of credit card debt during the 4 years I worked from home, it was not uncommon for us to put groceries and essentials on the credit card because we would run short of money mid-month (and honestly, I never did as good a job managing the finances as DH does now - he's a whiz at it, really). But I have to wonder, if I'd never gone back to work FT, would I have had an A? No way of knowing. I can't blame work, I can't blame FB, I can only blame myself.

Originally Posted By: Hitch2007
I have had a few sessions with Steve Harley, and it has helped. I really set up the sessions with SH to try and get H on board, his first session he went quiet but his 2nd session he got really angry afterwards, but whatever it did it got us talking, even to conflict.

They gave you a plan each session, and my last session was about crossing the SF barrier and try to open up some kind of affection, so I guess I have done that one...


Originally Posted By: Doormat_No_More
Hooray! This will be a really good step in your recovery. Jennifer has a great deal of experience working with spouses who don't want to work with her. I'm sure she'll help you. If it's possible for your spouse to be home while you're having your session, that would be a good idea. Typically you won't want him in the room with you -- too much of a chance of Love Busters -- but there might be some chance he's willing to talk to her, and that could bring about some amazing changes.


I'm glad that I'm moving ahead with the coaching. I'm hopeful for a good action plan that I can implement. DH will be home tomorrow during the session. I've sent him the info and I am not going to mention it again. It will be up to him as to whether he wants to participate or not.

Here's my thing - I'm stuck on the LB$ inventory. In truth, DH has not been making efforts to meet my ENs so he hasn't made any deposits into my LB$. I've had to make efforts to protect DH's balance in my LB$ so that his engaging in LB behavior or his being in withdrawal doesn't affect it. So reading over the questions, I almost feel like my responses are going to look schizo. Does that make sense at all? Like putting "Definitely agree completely" to a question like, "I find myself spending quite a bit of time thinking of ways to make (DH) happy" or "I tend to overlook (DH)'s mistakes" - I DO spend a lot of time on thinking of ways to make him happy, I DO tend to overlook his mistakes, but that doesn't mean my LB$ is overflowing...ah, heck, does that make sense at all??? I mean, I know if he did it for me, I'd be so far into the hole it wouldn't be funny...I know he doesn't sit around and think about ways to make me happy, and thinking about that makes me sad. I know I shouldn't think about how DH would answer the questions, but it's still there in the back of my mind.

I need to quit overthinking it and just do it.


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Originally Posted By: wulffpack_girl
Here's my thing - I'm stuck on the LB$ inventory.


Just do the thing as honestly as you can. If you're schizo with your answers, that's normal. Your Giver and your Taker are in control of various areas of your life. And that's what Jennifer wants to know: when and where is the Giver in control? What about the Taker?

Quote:
I know he doesn't sit around and think about ways to make me happy...


Do you really know that? You don't. You think you know, but you don't. And that is the heart of a Disrespectful Judgment: thinking you know what someone else is thinking, or thinking you know better than they do. The chances are good those kinds of judgments are creeping into how you deal with your husband.

Last edited by Doormat_No_More; 09/28/10 06:40 PM.

Doormat_No_More
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Originally Posted By: Doormat_No_More
Originally Posted By: wulffpack_girl
I know he doesn't sit around and think about ways to make me happy...


Do you really know that? You don't. You think you know, but you don't. And that is the heart of a Disrespectful Judgment: thinking you know what someone else is thinking, or thinking you know better than they do. The chances are good those kinds of judgments are creeping into how you deal with your husband.


You're right, DNM...I am just feeling down today. It's been a long day, DH is working the night shift tonight and I wish he was here. Things haven't been good since he went away for work Labor Day week - he's been withdrawn (but for those few blips of conflict) ever since. I know I am just making assumptions about how he feels about me based on how frustrated and lonely I feel. It's just so hard to keep myself in a positive mindset. After what I did, he's probably doing the best he can right now and I should be grateful. I guess I tend to try to stay out of his way because I *think* I know what he's thinking...Argh...just not a good day.

I worked on my book for him tonight. I'd hoped to finish it and give it to him before we go away next weekend for our anniversary but it's taking me a lot longer than I thought. Since he's out working I may work on it some more tonight. I sat down with DD #2 and showed it to her, she wanted me to read her some of the poems and she likes looking at the pictures I've drawn. I'm going to get out to the craft store at some point before I give it to him and get a little wooden box to put it in, stain it and paint his initials on the top so he has a place to keep it. I called the jeweler yesterday and got his ring size, luckily they had a record in their computer from when we got his ring resized. Maybe it's too soon to get him a new ring, though. Not too soon for me, but too soon for him. He may not appreciate the gesture right now, I just don't know.

I did ask if he wanted to go run with me Saturday morning and he seemed interested...so we'll see what happens.


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Originally Posted By: wulffpack_girl
I did ask if he wanted to go run with me Saturday morning and he seemed interested...so we'll see what happens.


Typical male most important ENs:

* Sexual Fulfillment
* Recreational Companionship

* Physical Attractiveness
* Domestic Support
* Admiration

It's not 100% with every man, but usually the top two are the most important and, as the Intimate Emotional Needs for a man, typically the best way to deposit the most Love Units quickly. Your idea of going for a run with him is great.

If my wife made me a scrapbook I'd say thank you, but it wouldn't do much for her account in my Love Bank. If I did that for her, she'd be thrilled.


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DH will not be home tonight for my session with Jennifer. I was hopeful, but he's working the night shift again.

I didn't post this earlier but he bought an extremely expensive (like over $10K) piece of yard equipment yesterday. He'd been talking about it but I didn't think he was at the point of buying it. At 5:50 PM I was informed they were delivering it today. I just smiled and went along with it. What else could I do? We just refinanced the house to pay down a lot of debt and now I'm afraid we'll end up in the same situation again. When I managed the finances before I tended to complain about his spending, and back when we were talking to each other it came out that that was pretty much a LB for him (of course this was pre-MB, so he pretty much said he didn't like it, we didn't have the MB lingo then). I know it's the truth, as I didn't have problems spending money to augment my shoe collection, but I'd complain when he wanted to buy something for one of the cars - and if I didn't complain, then I went into "pout" mode and became cold towards him, all behaviors I am trying to avoid now. DH owns 3 cars, all sportscars - one a classic, one he bought from his uncle's estate, and a brand-spanking new one he bought this summer. I don't really care what car he drives (as far as I'm concerned a car gets you from point A to point B). I want to avoid LBing him but I can't help but worry about the spending. It's a problem that was present pre-A (and actually even before we got married), one I know that could be managed with POJA, but he has not seemed interested in following POJA (or any other MB principles) right now.

I hope Jennifer can give me some steps that may help to get him on board. I'm really struggling right now.


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Originally Posted By: Doormat_No_More
If my wife made me a scrapbook I'd say thank you, but it wouldn't do much for her account in my Love Bank. If I did that for her, she'd be thrilled.


So do you think I should just can the idea? I thought it would be a good way of showing admiration, but maybe I'm off base. It's not really a scrapbook, I don't have pictures of us, I was kind of doing the compliments A-Z thing, things that describe him, if that makes sense.

According to the EN questionnaire, he indicated his top 5 needs were:
Openness & Honesty
Domestic Support
Financial Support
Family Commitment
Admiration

SF and RC don't appear on there at all. Generally those are the two things that I am a failure at engaging him in no matter what I do. His comment under RC on the questionnaire was "We always seem to do the things she likes." Yet when I ask him what he'd like to do, encourage him to make suggestions, he says "I don't know." I can't guess what he'd enjoy doing. If I try to initiate SF, he either doesn't respond or outright rejects me either verbally or by moving away. Conversation I can sometimes get, but it's not "intimate" conversation. I can talk about my feelings all day long, but he rarely opens up to me anymore, other than those occasional emails and then a retreat back into withdrawal. We talk about the house, the kids, etc.

My efforts at O&H are not filling his LB$ at all. I am trying just sitting down and talking to him about my day like you suggested DNM, and he'll sit there agreeably enough. I let him know what I'm doing, he's got all the passwords for cell/voice mail/email (I even sent him the login info and password for the new email system at work).

I feel like I can't do anything right. I just wish he'd tell me what was working and what was not, what I could do better.


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Well pretty sure I screwed up again. I missed a text from DH this afternoon, he texted me about 4 asking what I wanted to do w/DD#1 during DD#2's guitar lesson, did I want him to bring her to work or come pick her up. I had left my phone in my desk and had stopped in one of my coworker's offices (female) to chat. I didn't check the phone till about 10 to 5, I was actually going to text him and ask if he still wanted me to pick DD#1 up. When I saw his text I said I was on my way, I'd already planned to go pick her up so that's what I did. He didn't acknowledge me when I came in to get her so I just took her on home.

Got home w/DD#1 and saw meat thawing in the sink. He got home shortly and I sat down and talked to him a bit about my day, asked him how his went. Knew he'd had IC today and had been debating not going back anymore, so I asked him. He said no, he wasn't going back. I asked if he wanted to try anything, mentioned I had my first session w/Jennifer tonight. He said just to let him know how it goes. I'd asked what he wanted to do w/the meat, what did he want for supper. He replied that he was going to ask if I wanted to p/u something or wanted him to p/u something and I said he didn't tell me. Said he wanted to know what I wanted to do w/DD#1 first. I apologized for not getting the text and said I just didn't check my phone b/c I wasn't expecting him to text me (DJ, I know). He said "Because I'm not OM" and walked in the house. I follow, he's in the bathroom but I slammed the door anyway (LB) and ran upstairs to the bedroom and just laid down in the bed and cried. He came up in a few minutes to get ready for work and mentioned that there was chicken salad that my mom had brought over. I went back downstairs and into the garage to smoke and shortly he came out, said goodbye and left.

All out of tears for now. Threw the journal I was working on in the trash. It won't mean anything to him. No, he's not OM. He's so much more, so much better than OM. All I want to do is love him and I just want him to love me too. Called mom and cried about it, I know I shouldn't because there really isn't anything she can do. She hurts for me because I am her child but she can't help me with this. She said maybe I should cancel or postpone our trip next weekend. I've been looking forward to going away w/DH ever since we made the reservations. I don't know what to do anymore.

I guess I should get the journal out of the trash. Maybe I'll just leave it for him and tell him it is a work in progress. It may not put much in his LB$ but at this point what do I have to lose?

Session is in an hour and a half. I just need help.


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I'm having trouble offering any further advice. Your thread is causing me too many triggers. I apologize; I'm going to bow out for now. I need to focus on the jobs I've landed to try to get us out of financial trouble, and meeting my wife's emotional needs as best I can while working 60+ hours a week over the next month.

Best of luck. You don't have anything to lose by giving it to him. And even though Affection (I'd view such a journal as Affection) might not do a lot for him, it can be SOMETHING. And it's tangible when you're not around.

Out for now. Peace.


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