We're telling you a lot of things you don't want to hear. But we need to know you accept the difference between living together and being married.

The problem we face is that the advice we have to give is based on having a marriage.

You see, there is little external pressure you can bring to bear on a live in situation. Exposure, a key part of killing affairs, has no teeth when you aren't married since no adultery is being committed.

The only thing you can worry about is your daughter. File for custody. That will be a wake-up for her.

You are telling me things I don't want to hear. But I realize that I NEED to hear them. Thank you for your honest opinions. I kind of expected my problems would be brought up.

I guess I really didn't grasp the difference between actually being married and living together. I am educated now. Thanks.

I am trying to live by the concepts presented on this site. They make perfect sense. I know I see a big change in the way I live now. But I still want to make a life with her.

I want to try several ideas brought up by the various posters on here, in the mean time, should I put pressure on NC with the other guy? We still hang out together, tell each other we love one another, she still calls me "pet" names and even a few hugs now and then that were unsolicited. I think she wants to try, but is scared my change won't last. She is a very strong person, and if she really wanted to leave me, she probably would have done it already. I just want her to be happy with me again.

Well, today was a good day. We got along great, as has been the case for the past few days. SHE started talking tonight and asked that I not try to make her feel guilty by not coming into our bed tonight. She said she would, she just wanted to do it at here pace. After that, she told me she did love me and said she will do her part and promised to try and make this work. She also said she would read the 10 basic concepts on this site.

She said she has really noticed a change in me and that was what she had always wanted. She was happy about that. She said she just wanted to make sure she was doing this because that's what she wanted, and was not doing it out of guilt. She said she was sad that it took me so many years to come around. She said for many months she was unhappy and her telling me this fell on deaf ears. She put so much distance between us she needed time to work back there, but she wanted to get there.

I took this as a positive sign. I didn't ask her if she was still talking to OM tonight because I didn't want to take a setback tonight from my perception this we could move forward and build a solid relationship from this point.

I'm glad to hear you want to follow the concepts of MB. They do work.

BUT....

She's likely still very much in contact and will be straddling the fence.

Honestly, I think you'd gain a lot by showing a little bit of indifference when she starts acting wayward. Start acting like you're going to move on if she continues to see that guy and talk to him.

Just make it very matter of fact. If you find out she's talking to him, let her see you looking for other places to live and start talking to her about getting a lawyer to setup visitation.

When she asks why, then simply state, very matter of fact as if you are talking about the weather, that it is obvious she doesn't wish to be married so there is no need to continue the facade.

Granted, this is all reverse psychology, but making her think she's going to lose you might make her reconsider your relationship together.

Then again, others here may think differently. You're having some success with getting her to return, but in many ways you're re-enforcing what we are saying about the difference between being married and living together.

You bite your tongue because you don't wish to chase her away. You're putting up with unacceptable behavior because you don't wish to upset the apple cart. This is a perfect example of why living together is bad.

You don't deal with problems when you live together. You dance around them.

Being committed and married means that you have to address the issues that drive you nuts since not doing so will lead to bad feelings to someone you are committed to life for.

But you live together and she can bail at any moment without repercussions.

My question is why do you wish to be married to someone you need to convince to be with you?

And the answer isn't "because I love her."

That's not enough.

well, here is an update:
I did some snooping and found that she has been in contact and was texting him on skype. They were going back and forth with all the lovie-dovie talk. I immediately confronted her and we had a long talk. She admitted she slept with him several times. I asked her if she wanted to end our relationship. I gave her every out that would not put financial burdon on her. She said she loved me and wanted to make this work. She realized that NC with him MUST happen. She said she would do that to give US a chance. She has had every opportunity to leave this relationship, but she is still here, saying she is willing to try. She is scared I will change back to the old me that neglected out relationship for so many years...

I have contemplated calling OM but thought an email to him would be easier...

Should i email or call him?

btw helpthelostdads, I don't think I like you... just kidding. Your advice seems harsh, but has been spot on! I really value your opinion. While I do love her and would like to be with her forever, how do I force no contact?

She can leave today and be with him, but she is choosing to stick around and try to make this work

Can you verify from independent source that OM is divorced?

The IDEAL situation for her would be to have you BOTH. She may not have chosen you neccessarily, but chosen you BOTH. And she can do this if she just goes further underground with her new relationship. I would watch out for that.

I agree. I wouldn't see your current situation as a good step.

She isn't sticking around to make this work, she's trying to keep 2 people meeting her needs. The longer she can keep that going, the better for her.

She doesn't want him, she doesn't want you - she wants BOTH of you because then she is overloaded with people meeting her needs.

You can't FORCE NC, but you can make it a condition of you staying in a relationship.

You politely inform her that you will not stay in a relationship where she is involved with another man. YOU don't convince her to chose you, she has to CONVINCE YOU to stay with her. You shift the balance of power in your direction.

You sit her down and tell her you love her, want to make the relationship work and are working to become the best partner possible. However, you will NOT stay with her if she leaves the door open to OM. You request that she write a No Contact letter. It is a condition of you considering rebuilding the relationship.

If she doesn't write the letter or stalls then you gotta be willing to walk.

Ok, so there is some progress. But you need to take a good strong look at your long term goal. She is not married to you, so there is no adultery.

But you must find out how to fix this situation and do one of two things. You either need to split amicably and setup a custody arrangement where you have your daughter 50/50 or you commit to the relationship, build it up, and then get married.

Ideally, though not likely to happen, you would NOT live together. I seriously think that at a 50/50 arrangement with your daughter where you live apart from her and date as a couple is your best hope.

Why?

Because there is an artificial peace created when you live together that stems more from �I don�t want to move out� than it does from �I love him/her and want to see them every day and spend my life with him/her.�

That�s the problem with living together.

It sounds crazy, but the fact is that living together is destructive and makes you look past things that would drive you nuts if you were just dating and you would likely break up with someone over rather than settle with that person all on the grounds of not moving out.

There�s a couple I know who lived together and would breakup and get back together on a regular basis. They�d go through massive drama, get together, then split again. They just married. Splitting now isn�t a license to date someone new, since they are now married. Splitting now would involve lawyers.

In other words, there is no longer any running from problems. You must confront them and really deal with them or the problem becomes a cancer that will eat away at your relationship.

So I recommend you find a way to introduce her to MB principles without bringing her to this forum for now. You then need to get off this limbo state you�re in and either get married or end it.

You�re in a rebuilding mode right now. But you really need to decide whether or not you wish to spend the rest of your life with this person and you have to ask yourself why you haven�t married after all this time. Is there something you�re hoping improves or changes? What are you waiting for to marry? What were you waiting for before?

Seriously, live apart. Date each other.

The problem you have is that you now have a daughter together that is an infant. You can�t really date as easily.

I would tell you to go get married, but I feel that is a recipe for disaster at this point.

So the only way I see you to move forward is to have a long and brutally honest sit down to look at your relationship and make a decision. You either commit to each other and really do marry or you split and go your separate ways. Ask each other why you haven�t married up to this point. Then take premarital counseling to see if it a good idea to marry or not.

Love isn�t enough. It takes a good deal of brain power and involvement to make a marriage work.

Email is impersonal and is easily deleted. Call the POS and tell him that his life is going to be a nightmare if he continues. Tell him that you love her and will make his life h*ll if he tries to continue down the same path.

maritalbliss,

That advice would make sense if they were married. They're not. Hence, no affair.

She is free to break off the engagement and go with someone else.

Your advice might simply serve to get him arrested or appear to be more psycho than anything.

Oh - my bad. I confused him with another married poster.

Although I agree, that it is better to marry first, this is not the first thing that needs to be addressed here. The statistics for people who start living together with the goal of being married are actually a lot better than for those who cohabitate because of convenience (This does not mean that I am trying to convince anyone here to just live together).

What I am trying to say is, this person is asking for advice on saving his relationship with the woman he loves, who happens to be the mother of his child. It is always wrong to cheat, even if you are just dating and the fact that you are living together and have a child does not make a relationship meaningless or unsalvable. Quite to the contrary.

I do not see why it would be a bad idea to expose the affair.
Of course it depends on how loose of committed this 'living together' is and how friends and family see it. One could imagine that her parents or siblings, who know and appreciate him and want to help her preserve her relationship with the father of her child, the man she has loved for so many years, and who do not wish her the hardship of being a single mom, or the stress of having a blended family.


It will be helpful to reed "surviving an affair" all the same. You can still use the carrot and stick of plan A. You may not be as new and exciting as the new man, but you know her better and can surely figure out what makes her tick.
As for now, she is having a fantasy affair without the hassles of caring for a young child, a home, bills and the occasional disagreement. When she is with the other man, she can blend out the hard part.

Please do kill the affair. And yes you are entitled to do that. Especially as you have been planning on getting married and having already started a family. Of course it is always good to have another close look at the last 5 years to see if there are other major problems that need to be addressed in the long run or which point out that she has serious problems that would make long-term commitment impossible. But apart from that, by all means make every effort to kill, expose the affair, rebuild your relationship for a future with your family.

God bless you.

I'm not sure what you mean by this. What statistics are better? Do you mean the statistics for staying together permanently are better if the couple thinks their goal will eventually be marriage? How can you compare that with a couple who live together for economic/logistical reasons? Those couples don't have marriage on their agenda in the first place. Sounds like you're comparing apples and oranges, to me.

In any event, I think the poster is certainly within his rights to expose the A from the rooftops if he feels it will help his cause. But exposure will not address the underlying, most important issue, and that is that his girlfriend is a 'renter.' And why shouldn't she be? Because she procreated? She did not join into a permanent, exclusive relationship. They are not married.

Ok, I need some help with the next chapter. Was going to start a new thread, but figured I would just continue this one...

Quick recap: Have been seeing same girlfriend almost 6 years. we have lived together the entire time. we have always planned to marry, but did not. We were exclusive to each other and we have a 17 month old daughter. About 3 months ago, she started seeing OM and says she has fallen in love with him. I tried to stop it and fight for our famly, but was unsuccessful. We live in South Carolina, and he lives in Philadelphia. He is planning on moving here next March to buy a home and she will move in with him then.

She is still in our home, and goes to see him occasionally. My first thought was how can I let this OM become the father of my daughter? I will always be a part of her life, but if she lives with them, being so young, she will grow up with him being a father figure, especially if they have a child together.

She is not financially able to move out of here without financial help from OM. She has asked if we can be roomates until he moves here. I feel if I say no and move out, it will force her to rely on him financially. Pushing them closer together and her feeling more obligated to him. If I agree, that's almost 6 months we can have our daughter together when we are both here. I want to do this for our daughter. I would be able to see her everyday and not miss the little things in life as she grows up. My other thought is maybe I can really fill her love bank if she see's the person I am and maybe will start second guessing the thought of leaving me. If she see's the person she originally fell in love with, maybe I can win her back. I love her dearly and want nothing more than to be with her. Thanks for any advice...

I know this thread is old, just hope the posters that gave previous advice can see this...

We see it. What do you need to do?

You're in massive danger of losing your rights as a father.

You're on the Titanic worrying about re-arranging the furniture.

Get a lawyer. File for custody. Secure your rights now. If you fail to do this, you will setup a precedent letting her keep your daughter and letting him raise her.

Let her know, in no uncertain terms, that if she moves out with him that you will need to setup a custody arrangement where you have 50/50 custody.

You don't want to hear it. You feel being nice will mean she'll come back eventually. You couldn't be more wrong.

Being nice will get you nowhere. Being nice will mean he raises your child while you pay for it out the nose.

Get a lawyer.

Want to win her back? Let her know that custody needs to be agreed upon before she leaves and it must be done legally and in writing. Try that approach first.

Or, better yet, offer to be primary custodian of your daughter. That's even better.

Yeah, what he said.