L2S, I know you KNOW these things.

Sometimes we need to go with our head and some times we need to go with our heart and sometimes we need to go with our gut.

Your heart still wants him, but your head and your gut are telling you to run far and fast. The problem with hearts is that they can be very undiscriminating right up until the point they are shattered beyond repair. Hearts also really like the familiar. And they are not even close to logical--think of silly Juliet. You have a very strong resiliant heart. It's had a lot of pain and yet it's still there. For the right man, you will be a blessing beyond all worldly wealth. Listen to your head and your gut. Your heart will miss your X for a long time, and you may feel a bit of a pull right up until you find a new person to love.

I remember a guy I dated when I was young. I loved him so much, but he was like poison to me. When he broke up with me I was devastated. I cannot tell you how long it took me to get over him. It wasn't until I was in love with someone that those ties finally stopped tugging.

You have no idea how much I want to move on, how much I want to date again, how much I want to be in a good relationship. I just don't know where to find that person. At 52, not interested in someone I would find in a bar - don't do bars. Haven't met anyone at church although I must admit I don't stick around once it's over and I haven't attended any social functions. Hate doing that kind of thing by myself.

I toyed with eHarmony and match.com. Don't want my photo out there for all the world to see.

I suppose if it's meant to happen it will.

I know that him out of my life - and my daughter's - is the best. I KNOW that. Now, just have to make it so.

It seems you really want it to happen, but you admit to taking active steps in preventing it. You don't need to go to a gritty bar to find someone if they are not the types of places that hold the quality of men you desire. But there are waterfront cafe's, wine restaurants, coffee shops, etc. that may hold a different type of person that would appeal to you. Church, well, stick around after and attend the social functions. The fact that you hate doing these things by yourself simply means you have an obstacle to get over. Learning to love doing things by yourself is part of the healing process. Like anything it takes exposure and practice to get used to. EHarmony and Match are both great choices. But most won't respond to a pictureless profile, so again, something to work out for yourself. I've done Match and met a lot of great guys. (No love interest yet. I enjoy the company but seem to have lost my libido in the divorce.)

"If it's meant to happen it will" is a great cliche, but why not take a proactive role in the process? Are you sure you're ready? Understandable if you're not. But it's still a good idea to get out there and be social. Just to be comfortable in your own skin doing it when you are ready. Baby steps perhaps? Attend those church functions and frequent a coffee shop with a good book.

The social thing I had down from day one. The seething anger toward the ex is the part I'm still working on!

I'm more angry at myself for allowing such a huge portion of my life to be consumed by someone who loved me so much he treated me as he did. Of course, it was treatment I apparently didn't mind too much b/c I stayed for a long time after I saw who he was and I am STILL not totally over it all even now.

He called me earlier to say that he wasn't trying to bring up anything but............ he remembered how much he hurt me in 1998 (our one year anniversary) when he was already having an A w/a much younger woman that his sister introduced him to. I knew something was wrong w/our M but didn't know what. I booked a one-night stay in a bed and breakfast and arranged for my sister to keep my D. We didn't have his kids that weekend. At the time he was a dispatcher. He didn't even ask for someone to cover him. When I told him that I had made plans for us he didn't even want to go so I had to spoil the surprise by telling him what I had planned.
I took photos that night of the room and I have one of him sitting on the bed on the phone dispatching. What i learned later is that he was probably also listening to voicemails from the OW. That's how I learned about the A. I finally figured out the code to his VM box and the OW "told" me all about it.
Anyway, he called to apologize for all the hurt and pain that he caused me by having the A.
This is something he occasionally does - call out of the blue to apologize for something but then he always puts a dig in and brings up something I did that was - in his eyes - equal to what he did or has a causal relationship to what he did.
Oh well, just thinking and venting. One day he is ready to move and down on life and the next he is apologetic.
The one thing he hasn't done in a very long time is threaten suicide. For a while he was doing that quite often. Not sure how I would handle that. He really put me through h@ll with that ploy.

The XH went away w/friends this weekend. I talked to him once on Friday and he called once yesterday. My DD and I have been together all weekend shopping, working at home going through boxes of old stuff and cleaning up.
I have to say, as sad as it does make me in one respect, it has been refreshing because I haven't worrried about where he is or what he is doing. Is he w/friends or w/a woman? I don't know and I am not much bothered by it.
For me, that's progress!!!!

you're moving in the right direction l2s.
Think Dory from Finding Nemo: "just keep swimming..., just keep swimming..."

opt

XH is back from trip. He has called several times this afternoon. Just got off the phone w/him. Conversation was light and pleasant until he brought up my D. Said that everyone involved has situation w/her just where they want it - no R w/him. Said he has tried but can't do any more to repair the R and so he is giving up and giving everyone what they want. Said he is going to leave us alone b/c that is apparenty what we want. Said he has tried to talk to me about fixing it but I won't talk.
Frankly, I'm not sure what he expects me to do. She has vivid memories of a lot of stuff he did. She probably overheard conversations between famly members about some of the stuff he has done that admittedly she shouldn't have heard or known but.. she does. I'm not sure what I can do to repair the R. She doesn't want one and trying to push them together is not going to make her change her mind. She wants nothing to do with him.
Earlier in the year he did some work at the house and she saw him 2-3 times and had to talk to him to make some choices about materials to use. I thought it would be a good chance to see how she would react. She was respectful when he was around but she clearly doesn't want him back in her life.
I can't force her to contact him or like him or want him around. He's the one that did the stuff that caused the problems but wants to blame me and my family. He put his son first over everything and everyone to the exclusion of me and my D. She hasn't forgotten that. She hasn't forgotten a lot of stuff and probably knows more than I think she does. I wish I had her backbone. When she's done she's done. Sure didn't get it from me!!

Just Keep Swimming, LifeTwoShort.

Focus on your own recovery and gaining what strength you can. You taken huge steps in that direction and frankly it's good to see. I suppose we can all learn some lessons from our kids. Your daughter has a good sense of her boundaries and what she'll tolerate and how not to expose herself to more pain/damage.

BTW, your ex is not finished with you. All that nonsense he was spewing was pure manipulation. He's too immature to actually live by his own resolve to "leave you alone." Stick with your plan kid.

Opt

My apologies, LtwoS, I could have said this in a different way. I was a little fired up.
The phraseology your ex chose to explain his position leads me to believe that he lacks the boundaries to adhere to his own plan to "leave (people) alone."

Again, I say: stick with your plan.

Opt

Optimism:
No problem. I didn't take anything you said in a negative way. I appreciate and need the feedback.

Really needing some moral support right now. I have spoken to him only occasionally this whole week.

On Monday morning he left a voicemail about how he wished things could be different and how with the holidays coming up he didn't want to spend them alone again. I had made a comment to him that if the R had worked out with the last girl he dated - which by the way he lied about while it was going on - that we would no longer be talking b/c he would have told me to leave him alone. On the VM he said "Have you ever thought that it didn't work out b/c I still love you?" Of course he told me the reason they "broke up" is b/c she lied to him about where she was on numerous occasions. Who knows the real truth?

I did not acknowledge or respond to the email b/c I really didn't want to start my week off by rehashing ancient history.

Fast forward to today and I get this text message:
"It's obvious our love can't be overcome and neither can our problems. I'll keep doing my part to keep it going in the direction you steered in. Just don't get mad at me for dancing on the stage you set. I love you but I also understand. No response please."

Okay. So he is moving toward seeing someone or already is. I have my doubts and suspicions about EVERYTHING he does and I do mean everything. If he feels as he does why doesn't he just leave me alone? I guess i could say the same of myself though. Guess we're both two messed up people.

Anyway, thoughts and encouragement are greatly appreciated. I still have those "what would happen if..." moments where I wonder if there's a chance to fix this. I know deep down that this isn't really what I want but I also know that I don't really won't to be alone and the one always tagging along with the married folks.

Thanks all.

You might not want to hear this but YOU are choosing to have this dysfunctional relationship with your ex, as a betrayed spouse you don't get to choose since your married when the affair hits.

Both of you have not changed, he with his waywardness, and you jumping in to save him when he doesn't want to change any of his bad habits or his bad choices.

You eat it up when he pays any attention to you even if it's a blame shift back hand compliment you think he is being nice when he is just using you until some one new comes along.

You posted that you have a daughter now would you want her to date some one like your ex?

Swan's song,
Sadly, I agree with you. I have the ability to stop all contact, but choose not to. There is a flaw in me that allows myself to remain connected, however bad that connection is.

And yes, you are also right about the attention piece. Also, right about nice until someone else comes along.

You are right about the whole thing. My big issue is stopping. I have dealt with a lot of tragedy in my life, some self-inflicted by poor choices and some out of my control. This is one of the toughest situations I've ever dealt with.

As I said, there's a flaw in me that is drawn in by his neediness. I find myself wanting to take care of stuff better than anyone else ever has. How sad is that?

This isn't a healthy R - and no, no, no I would never want my D in this type R and, if asked about a similar situation w/someone else I would tell them to run fast and run far.

Just can't seem to take my, or others, good advice.

Just need to vent.
I have tried really hard over the last two weeks to leave him alone. Probably 95% of the time I talked to him was b/c he called me.
Today, had a yard sale. Cool this morning. When I got home, took a shower and got dressed. XH called and asked if I needed any help in yard. No - not doing yardwork. So, I showered and had just gotten dressed when my doorbell rings. It's him and he has a picture frame in his hand.
When we were first married and things started going south - didn't know at the time that it was b/c he was having an A - I gave him a card and attached to the card was a tear-off card with the Bible passage of what love is "love is kind, love is patient, love holds no history of wrong-doing", etc. So today he shows up with this in his hand saying isn't this yours? I say "no it's yours". Oh he says. Thought your sister gave it to you. No I say - I gave it to you. Him - do you want it? Me - no it's yours. Him - I don't remember you giving it to me.

This from a man that remembers everything I ever said, everything I ever did, every look, every everything.

This is common behavior for him by the way. Whenever he starts talking about moving on he will find something in his house that I left behind and he will bring it to my house and put it inside the storm door. I can just about bet the farm whenever something like this is going to happen.

Then, he takes a picture of the card in the frame and sends it to me with the following message "Guess love is defined differently depending on whose favor it's in". This from the man that is constantly making snide remarks about what I do for my D versus what he was "allowed" to do for his. He forgets that he has allowed his kids - post our divorce - to just about put him into bankruptcy and is still doing this stuff.

Anyway, I'm just venting and wondering what type person does this kind of stuff. What is the point? I've just stopped responding when he does this. I pretend that it didn't happen. I don't allow him to bait me into a confrontation over it - which is what it always turns into.

Thoughts, responses, etc. are greatly appreciated. I know it may not seem like it but I am really trying to distance myself day by day a little more each day.

Well, I could tell you waht "type of person does that kind of stuff," but I would be repeating myself, lol.

Actually, I sense your effort to put the distance between you and him; it shows in your posts. I think you're making progress; I see you gaining strength. All I can offer is encouragement for more of the same. I bet it feels good to be maintaining some control and not relinquishing it so readily as you had been doing in the past.

Opt

optimism,
I AM trying, but it's tough. He is constantly trying to pull me back in. He calls and he's sick. He called yesterday asking for pain meds as he had given all he had to his S and he is out - I don't have any to give him. Chronic pain due to 4 back/neck surgeries. Says he is going to have to have shoulder surgery - auto accident ~ 2 yrs ago, but since D from me has no insurance.

- Was the purpose of this call to pull me back in and elicit sympathetic response?

I am really trying hard to see everything for what it really is yet it is very hard to let go and go dark. The phone calls are less frequent now and I seldom talk to him in the evening as I used to do.

Sometimes I hate it when I'm right, but I have learned to read the signs.

XH called me early this afternoon. Wanted to know if the small TV in the spare bedroom was mine. I said no. Then, "do you want it?" Me - no I have no use for it.

Then, "do you want the other TV?" This is a large screen that needs to be repaired. Me - "no it would take up my entire living room".

Then the next inevitable question - Do you have anything else here that belongs to you or can you think of anything else you want from the house? Me - no.

So, the next step will probably be for him to say that he is trying to tie up loose ends here so he can make plans to move to another state as he has nothing left to hold him here.

The whole thing just really punches in the gut. We could have had such a good marriage, except that, for him, everything else and everyone else took priority.

L2S, I know this is a hot button for me, and sometimes I think I see shadows where none exist, but have you considered the possibility that your XH has a personality disorder?

His behavior strikes me as having a lot of the same characteristics of the Cluster B. There is a site I found very useful when trying to learn about my own experience. There are a lot of horrifyingly terrific articles, but this one in particular might be an eye-opener. A few tidbits
And
And
There's more, of course. A lot more. You might find it worthwhile taking a few moments to read some of the articles. I know I did!

Sounds like a woulda-coulda-shoulda, L2S.
Hey we all have 'em. Me, after a couple of real nice dates, thinking "see, if she had just been more like them...." (I leave out the details, but you get what I'm saying).
Fact is, that thinking don't work. You know that right? And it works even less and less as you develop and he doesn't. You must assume that he isn't going to follow your road of personal development. Know what that means? He wasn't playing the same game as you before and now the incompatibility simply grows larger by the day. It means you're moving forward in a good and healthy way....forward, UP. You're on a different developmental plane.

And, you can't keep reaching down to try to boost him up-- he must find his own path. And only YOU can allow him to hold you back from your own.

He could move. But unless you've established your own boundaries in his presence then it's only a convenient situational change; not a substantial positive change for you.

Opt

Whew!!!! The dance we dance.
Limited contact the last couple of weeks. Seems that every Monday XH sends txt msg and starts an argument about us getting back together. Here goes:
"As many times as I made the comment I thought that was what u wanted (meaning no contact) and told you I would start backing off and you did nothing or said nothing to change my mind. Therefore you lead me where you wanted me to go. I will make it happen and will not be stupid again."
Then..........
"I can come by today after lunch (this was yesterday) and" do some last minor touch-ups to the work he did at my house. "I'll also bring your shoes and I have some milk that will probably go bad before I use it. Just wish you had been grown up enough to say something rather than push me to it. But believe it or not I actually got it. Stupid me! I feel like there is someone else so I will make sure I respect that."

I told him I did not want him to do the work and that I would complete it b/c I did not want to give him something else to throw up in my face when he got mad about something. Told him I would not want to use his son again. HE said he would do the work. Kept on and I finally said OK. Then, found out son did help.

"And when I said I didn't want to talk to you sometimes its because I love you so much and it hurts so bad the way you did. Sorry."
"I'm sorry I said things to hurt you. No excuse but you have hurt me pretty bad with the way you've handled things. I was glad to help you honestly. It gave me time with you. Just wish I had known and not been so stupid".

I did talk to him 3-4 times and he accused me of using his son (the one I had such a hard time with when we were married). His son works for him in and was one of the ones doing the floors at my house. I told XH that I don't have a problem with his son anymore b/c what he does no longer affects me. Told him that I did not ask his son to do the work but that XH is the one that had him do it. Also, he was paid cash $ so didn't have to pay taxes on it AND the two of them were the ones that said how much I owed.

The situation is absolutely hopeless and we both know it yet we continue with this dance. During our conversation yesterday I mentioned that I don't trust him and brought up the cell phone and the text msgs. He then brought up the two women, both married and customers of his, that continually text him. Said I could look at his phone anytime and that if we got back together and it bothered me he would tell them to stop and would even stop doing work for them if necessary.

My thought was "if you're trying to show me that you've changed and that we could work it out why would you do something that got us to where we are in the first place" - inappropriate relationships w/female customers? And, if he wanted me to trust him why would he show the cell phone to me sometimes and not others which immediately made me suspicious. And, I caught him once lying about who was calling. Made him show me phone and it was the OW.

I know I'm rambling and know I'm rehashing ancient history. Just trying to get off my chest and sort through my feelings.

Right, L2S. And furthermore if someone is truly changed (and in a lasting way) and for the right reasons, they don't need to show anybody anything. To me that's the true mark of an insincere and temporary behavior modification "look at me! I've changed! See! I can do it right!!"
And I've earned the right to point out the difference because I've made changes in my life both ways, first the wrong way (for the better part of my married life) and now the right way; for myself.

Leave it at that. End of story.


okay you lost me here. who said what?

opt