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I texted back with a curt "Please leave my wife alone" before turning the phone off. Apparently he must've responded "Really? She came to me."

Immaterial. The ahole needs to know that the smartest thing he could ever do is turn and run when your WW 'goes to him.'


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Originally Posted by CynicalRomantic
I texted back with a curt "Please leave my wife alone" before turning the phone off. Apparently he must've responded "Really? She came to me."

If you have to text him again, tell him that you if end up divorcing your wife on the grounds of her adultery, HE is going to end up on the stand discussing it under threat of perjury. Look up alienation of affection laws in your state to see if they exist there. Just the threat of that lawsuit should be enough to make him run for the hills. The purpose here is that the very first thing you need to worry about is crushing this affair like a bug. Once the affair is over, then you can begin the work of recovering your marriage.


ex-WW had 2 PAs in first 2 years. Buh-bye.
Divorce finalized: 1/28/09
Now just living and loving again.
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Originally Posted by CynicalRomantic
I'm so very scared.

CR, thats ok, we were all scared too. Just don't allow your fear to lead your strategy or you are doomed. Tell her you will do what it takes to bust up her affair.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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Originally Posted by Unfettered
The purpose here is that the very first thing you need to worry about is crushing this affair like a bug. Once the affair is over, then you can begin the work of recovering your marriage.
There is nothing more important for you to understand than this, IMO. You can't *fix* your marriage as long as the affair is going on. You can't save it by fixing it and you can only fix it if you save it.

Your wife is not your enemy.

OM is not your enemy.

The AFFAIR is your enemy.

You have believed, like most of us when we got here, that your goal should be to prevent or avoid having conflict with your wife. But that isn't going to stop her from having an affair. You need her to be involved in conflict continuously as it relates to the affair. All conflict must center around the affair until it ends.

Your goal is to make the affair harder than working on the marriage. She will be mad about that. She's been mad before and will be again, but unless the affair is dead, your marriage will die.

Exposure works like chemotherapy or radiation therapy does for cancer. While the treatment itself might be poisonous and make things difficult for a time, unless they are used you die a slow and agonizing death as you succumb to the disease.

Waywards believe that what they are doing is not wrong only as long as no one knows about what they are doing. IF they truly believed the garbage they tell themselves about the affair being pure, wholesome, righteous, right (even just for them) and all the rest, they should be shouting the praises of the affair from the rooftops. But instead they hide what they do, from their spouses and from other people, some they don't even know. They thereby prove that even they believe that what they do is wrong.

Exposure works to pressure the affair better than any other thing you can do. You also need to remember that even when the affair is over for real, you will have to be patient as she suffers from withdrawal from the effects of the affair and OM. She might never fall at your feet and beg you to take her back. If you want to save your marriage, you need to be willing to accept that and work on making it a better marriage anyway.

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She just packed and left. She basically blames me for ruining her life and our M. She left noting that she wants to kill herself but was likely too much of a coward. A friend apparently reminded her in a text today to remember her promise to God of "'til death do us part"...she said maybe she'd be able to honor that if she committed suicide.

I'm in such tears.

She also told me that I don't understand her family very well in that when they don't like a situation, they leave and never come back. I know she's so independent.

I need to go get another phone, because I'm dying without my vocal support network.


Me: BS 28
Her: WS 27
Married: 2 years
D-Day 1: late Jul 10
D-Day 2: 8/12/10
D-Day 3: 9/30/10
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Originally Posted by CynicalRomantic
She just packed and left. She basically blames me for ruining her life and our M. She left noting that she wants to kill herself but was likely too much of a coward. A friend apparently reminded her in a text today to remember her promise to God of "'til death do us part"...she said maybe she'd be able to honor that if she committed suicide.

I'm in such tears.

She also told me that I don't understand her family very well in that when they don't like a situation, they leave and never come back. I know she's so independent.

I need to go get another phone, because I'm dying without my vocal support network.


CR, you need to buck up here, friend, and get control of your emotions. What has happened here is a good thing, despite your wife's drama queen act. She is furious for good reason: you wrecked her affair.

The angrier a WS, the more damage you caused to the affair. She is the crackhead who is angry because you took her crack away. If she would only stay with you on the condition that she could have her affair, then your marriage was over anyway.

Waywards always go crazy when their affairs are ruined. She is trying to scare you into submission, so don't react and stop fretting. This will blow over, but if you react with FEAR, she will know she can manipulate you into submission.

CALM YOURSELF DOWN!!


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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Originally Posted by MelodyLane
CR, you need to buck up here, friend, and get control of your emotions. What has happened here is a good thing, despite your wife's drama queen act. She is furious for good reason: you wrecked her affair.

The angrier a WS, the more damage you caused to the affair. She is the crackhead who is angry because you took her crack away. If she would only stay with you on the condition that she could have her affair, then your marriage was over anyway.

Waywards always go crazy when their affairs are ruined. She is trying to scare you into submission, so don't react and stop fretting. This will blow over, but if you react with FEAR, she will know she can manipulate you into submission.

CALM YOURSELF DOWN!!
Yeah. I know that everything's going according to the book so far, so I'm supposed to be reassured by that, but it's still pretty much the hardest emotional state that I can recall dealing with.

I've got a close friend that I'm talking with at the moment that's helping some. I want to go get a new phone (the other was on its last legs anyway), but an electrician is coming by sometime this afternoon. I don't really want to leave the house unlocked and unattended.


Me: BS 28
Her: WS 27
Married: 2 years
D-Day 1: late Jul 10
D-Day 2: 8/12/10
D-Day 3: 9/30/10
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Originally Posted by CynicalRomantic
Yeah. I know that everything's going according to the book so far, so I'm supposed to be reassured by that, but it's still pretty much the hardest emotional state that I can recall dealing with.

I've got a close friend that I'm talking with at the moment that's helping some. I want to go get a new phone (the other was on its last legs anyway), but an electrician is coming by sometime this afternoon. I don't really want to leave the house unlocked and unattended.

Yeah, not a good idea to leave it unlocked and unattended. Another thing to think about now is your access to money. It is not unheard of for Waywards to clean out savings accounts, so if she has access to the family money, you may need to withdraw it until you know she isn't going to simply steal it from you.

Now might be a good time to write her a letter stating your reasons for exposure. She's not likely to "hear" it right now, but maybe you'll get lucky. I'd just tell her that you love her and it was clear she wasn't going to end her affair with this man. So you had no choice but to expose to try and kill it yourself so you have a real shot at rebuilding your marriage.


ex-WW had 2 PAs in first 2 years. Buh-bye.
Divorce finalized: 1/28/09
Now just living and loving again.
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Originally Posted by Unfettered
Yeah, not a good idea to leave it unlocked and unattended. Another thing to think about now is your access to money. It is not unheard of for Waywards to clean out savings accounts, so if she has access to the family money, you may need to withdraw it until you know she isn't going to simply steal it from you.

Now might be a good time to write her a letter stating your reasons for exposure. She's not likely to "hear" it right now, but maybe you'll get lucky. I'd just tell her that you love her and it was clear she wasn't going to end her affair with this man. So you had no choice but to expose to try and kill it yourself so you have a real shot at rebuilding your marriage.
As she was leaving, she left her bank card and credit card. She also left all of our cash. She didn't want anyone to ever accuse her of stealing from me. She definitely won't steal it.

I actually attempted to semi-explain the exposure during the chaos (probably a bad idea...but I have a hard time not answering questions). She's actually the one that told me about MB early in our M. We came back to it when the affair initially became an issue. I told her I'd been reading it recently. This morning, she somewhat screamed about how MB said to write a NC letter but didn't say anything about exposure. I guess she hadn't read far enough.


Me: BS 28
Her: WS 27
Married: 2 years
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D-Day 2: 8/12/10
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Originally Posted by CynicalRomantic
She just packed and left. She basically blames me for ruining her life and our M. She left noting that she wants to kill herself but was likely too much of a coward. A friend apparently reminded her in a text today to remember her promise to God of "'til death do us part"...she said maybe she'd be able to honor that if she committed suicide.

I'm in such tears.

She also told me that I don't understand her family very well in that when they don't like a situation, they leave and never come back. I know she's so independent.

I need to go get another phone, because I'm dying without my vocal support network.

Good job you just took an important step in your life. I think you are forgetting what has been going on.

Your wife is sleeping with another man. You did not have a marriage anymore. Until you take action your WW would just keep abusing you. Don't let her do that.

As a man there is nothing worse than having a wife sleeping around. You can do better. Maybe go get some counseling and try and find out why you would put up with that.

The exposure will end the secrecy. If I were you I would tell her that you thought she wanted people to know about her new boyfriend. Why else would she have a new boyfriend?

What did you have before you exposed this? You had nothing and you were on your way to being replaced. It may still happen but if it does you will know you did everything to save your marriage.

The men who fail are the men who don't take action. The men who don't take action out of fear lose their wives. I lost mine but not because she chose the OM. I dumped her because she slept with another man. When I took action my WW changed her tune in a hurry when I exposed and then booted her out.

Don't sit back keep moving forward with or without her.

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Originally Posted by CynicalRomantic
This morning, she somewhat screamed about how MB said to write a NC letter but didn't say anything about exposure. I guess she hadn't read far enough.

I guess not. grin

Listen, I wouldn't try and reason with her at all. That is like trying to reason with a falling down drunk who just got his booze taken away. Just tell her "sorry you so upset, dear!" And leave it at that.

Nothing you can say can persuade her of the benefit of exposure and trying to do so just looks like you are desperate, which will embolden her to abuse you.

The WORST THING you can do is react to her fury in any way. Don't apologize, don't fight, don't laugh, don't try to reason. Just be calm and FIRM.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

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Originally Posted by MelodyLane
The WORST THING you can do is react to her fury in any way. Don't apologize, don't fight, don't laugh, don't try to reason. Just be calm and FIRM.
I don't think I apologized. I tried to minimize the fighting. I definitely didn't laugh. I probably did try to reason some.

Originally Posted by IHadEnough
You can do better. Maybe go get some counseling and try and find out why you would put up with that.
I'm definitely not opposed to counseling. Getting a lot of that from my support network at the moment. I think the reason that I "put up with it" was that I didn't see it that way. I promised to love her unconditionally for better or worse. I still do.


Me: BS 28
Her: WS 27
Married: 2 years
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D-Day 3: 9/30/10
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Originally Posted by CynicalRomantic
I promised to love her unconditionally for better or worse. I still do.

"Unconditional love" only gives the recipient unrealistic expectations of entitlement. It gives her license to abuse you so essentially you have created a monster.

Secondly, I assure you that you won't love her unconditionally for long if she continues to abuse you with her adultery. Adultery is a lovebuster that will erode your love for her. You will grow to hate her eventually if you don't remove yourself from the situation.

Originally Posted by Dr Willard Harley, clinical psychologist and founder of Marriage Builders
The concept of unconditional love in marriage usually refers to a spouse�s lifelong commitment to care for the other spouse regardless of what the other spouse does. I�m in favor of a lifelong commitment to care regardless of unfavorable circumstances (health problems, financial setbacks, and other factors outside a couple�s control that can negatively impact a marriage). But I�m opposed to a lifelong commitment to care for a spouse when that spouse makes marriage-wrecking choices. It tends to give such people unrealistic expectations of entitlement�that they should be cared for, regardless of their willingness to care in return. Neglect and abuse characterize many marriages based on unconditional love.
here

Another article that addresses this issue: What�s Wrong with Unconditional Love
by Willard F. Harley, Jr., Ph.D.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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@CynicalRomantic -

My XGF yelled, screamed, called me vindictive after exposure.

One week later, last night, she tells me that she should be mad at me, but she isn't.

You've given the people around you both, a choice of three options to select from:
  1. BH
  2. WW
  3. BH and WW


Now you need to find out which of those people selected option 3. Bring them into your support group. Throw away the option 1 and 2 people.

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I'm so very scared.

This is fear. It is normal. It is telling you to fight or take to flight.

Because both of these actions are going to make you react from instincts and habits, in other words you are going to be not thinking clearly, just reacting immediately. You need a plan of action, Plan A. That way when you do react you have a set of instructions to work from, Plan A.

Where is your Plan A?

You need to read Mark's Rant For Newbies.

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Pardon me for interrupting. First post. But felt it was necessary for you to be aware of the shift in the power dynamic of your relationship. You have seized the power, which she had, and is now impotent. Perhaps an experienced poster can expand upon that. Think about it, it may help allay your fears, and build your confidence.

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Originally Posted by CynicalRomantic
She just packed and left. She basically blames me for ruining her life and our M. She left noting that she wants to kill herself but was likely too much of a coward. A friend apparently reminded her in a text today to remember her promise to God of "'til death do us part"...she said maybe she'd be able to honor that if she committed suicide.

I'm in such tears.

She also told me that I don't understand her family very well in that when they don't like a situation, they leave and never come back. I know she's so independent.

I need to go get another phone, because I'm dying without my vocal support network.

CR, I want you to do this: sit down in a quiet room and cry your eyes out over this terrible turn of events. I'll wait.

Okay, all done? Now, put on your big boy pants and get ready to tackle this. Skip all that entitlement garbage about how her family does something a certain way, so she has to, too. That means nothing in this situation.

She's not going to kill herself. That is a manipulative tool that she's using against you.

She needs to know that she can come home when she is ready to eliminate OM from the picture.


D-Day 2-10-2009
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Thank you Marriage Builders!

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Originally Posted by MelodyLane
"Unconditional love" only gives the recipient unrealistic expectations of entitlement. It gives her license to abuse you so essentially you have created a monster.

Secondly, I assure you that you won't love her unconditionally for long if she continues to abuse you with her adultery. Adultery is a lovebuster that will erode your love for her. You will grow to hate her eventually if you don't remove yourself from the situation.

Originally Posted by Dr Willard Harley, clinical psychologist and founder of Marriage Builders
The concept of unconditional love in marriage usually refers to a spouse�s lifelong commitment to care for the other spouse regardless of what the other spouse does. I�m in favor of a lifelong commitment to care regardless of unfavorable circumstances (health problems, financial setbacks, and other factors outside a couple�s control that can negatively impact a marriage). But I�m opposed to a lifelong commitment to care for a spouse when that spouse makes marriage-wrecking choices. It tends to give such people unrealistic expectations of entitlement�that they should be cared for, regardless of their willingness to care in return. Neglect and abuse characterize many marriages based on unconditional love.
here

Another article that addresses this issue: What�s Wrong with Unconditional Love
by Willard F. Harley, Jr., Ph.D.
I felt like I remembered reading those a while ago and feeling conflicted. I've also been reading Real Love in Marriage, and I feel like the ideas are competing a bit in my head. Isn't Plan A in a sense unconditional love? (Granted, since it's a period of time, I suppose that represents a condition.) Like, you're pouring love into the other person without necessarily expecting anything in return. Unconditional love doesn't mean there aren't "parameters" per se and it definitely doesn't mean unconditional trust.

Originally Posted by clark_kent
You've given the people around you both, a choice of three options to select from:
  1. BH
  2. WW
  3. BH and WW


Now you need to find out which of those people selected option 3. Bring them into your support group. Throw away the option 1 and 2 people.

Because both of these actions are going to make you react from instincts and habits, in other words you are going to be not thinking clearly, just reacting immediately. You need a plan of action, Plan A. That way when you do react you have a set of instructions to work from, Plan A.

Where is your Plan A?

You need to read Mark's Rant For Newbies.
Fortunately almost everyone that I've heard from is option 3. (Excepting his family somewhat.) I specifically selected them since I suspected they would be. There are a few that seem to only be on my side, but I'm not suggesting that they have contact with her.

Yeah. I definitely should put together a more formal Plan A for my specific situation.

WW has talked to me in short bits throughout the rest of the day (almost entirely initiated by her). Nothing particularly substantive...mostly stuff like, "Your parents want to talk to you." (They were out of the loop a bit while I was getting a replacement phone.) I responded, "I believe your parents would like to talk to you too." (She screened them and most everyone other than a few people today.) She informed me when the electrician would be by this evening. She sent me a YouTube link to George Strait's "Give It Away". I texted her to ask what she was going to do without debit/credit/money. She said 'Work.' Only other things that I could get out of her were 'I am fine.' MIL just informed me that WW texted her that she's alive and alone. (Great news in a sense...though obviously would prefer she be back home or with family.) After consecutive "I am fine"s, I decided to try not to bother her. Probably will say goodnight and reaffirm that she's loved and leave it at that until tomorrow.

Another interesting development...one of the OM's relatives called me this afternoon. She didn't identify who she was, but she expressed disbelief over the situation. I verified the details for her. She noted that OM recently had been dating a girl (that wasn't WW). Adds an interesting wrinkle, I think. She said she'd try to find out more but didn't think that OM's family was necessarily going to have much influence.

Oh, and my dad flew into town for a day. My mom will fly in tomorrow and stay for a few days. I don't think it's necessary...and I'm a smidge worried about what the ramifications are if WW wife returns in that time frame...but I suppose it's good to have personal support.


Me: BS 28
Her: WS 27
Married: 2 years
D-Day 1: late Jul 10
D-Day 2: 8/12/10
D-Day 3: 9/30/10
Stage: Exposure Aftermath
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Originally Posted by CynicalRomantic
I felt like I remembered reading those a while ago and feeling conflicted. I've also been reading Real Love in Marriage, and I feel like the ideas are competing a bit in my head. Isn't Plan A in a sense unconditional love? (Granted, since it's a period of time, I suppose that represents a condition.) Like, you're pouring love into the other person without necessarily expecting anything in return. Unconditional love doesn't mean there aren't "parameters" per se and it definitely doesn't mean unconditional trust.

Plan A is only the expression of a willingness to meet the other spouses needs *IF* he/she ends her affair. So it is very conditional. And if the affair does not end in a short period of time, then separation is warranted. Like Dr Harley stated, "Neglect and abuse characterize many marriages based on unconditional love."


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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Originally Posted by CynicalRomantic
Oh, and my dad flew into town for a day. My mom will fly in tomorrow and stay for a few days. I don't think it's necessary...and I'm a smidge worried about what the ramifications are if WW wife returns in that time frame...but I suppose it's good to have personal support.

I think thats great!! Will she meet with your parents? I would let her know that your parents are coming to see you because they are concerned about her affair.

Quote
Another interesting development...one of the OM's relatives called me this afternoon. She didn't identify who she was, but she expressed disbelief over the situation. I verified the details for her. She noted that OM recently had been dating a girl (that wasn't WW). Adds an interesting wrinkle, I think. She said she'd try to find out more but didn't think that OM's family was necessarily going to have much influence.

This is a loaded PISTOL right here that could blow the affair wife open. I wouild tell your wife about this call and see if you can find out who the OM's GF is.

Tell your wife that "I hate to be the one to inform you, but OM's sister <?> called me and said he is dating another woman. Did you know about this?"

Can you ID the GF from his facebook page? That would be fabulous if you could contact her!


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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Originally Posted by Iconoclast
Pardon me for interrupting. First post. But felt it was necessary for you to be aware of the shift in the power dynamic of your relationship. You have seized the power, which she had, and is now impotent. Perhaps an experienced poster can expand upon that. Think about it, it may help allay your fears, and build your confidence.
I'm definitely in more of a confident place tonight than I was earlier today. I tend to be quite emotional and conservative in my states, but I adapt quickly to new circumstances.

Originally Posted by maritalbliss
CR, I want you to do this: sit down in a quiet room and cry your eyes out over this terrible turn of events. I'll wait.

Okay, all done? Now, put on your big boy pants and get ready to tackle this. Skip all that entitlement garbage about how her family does something a certain way, so she has to, too. That means nothing in this situation.

She's not going to kill herself. That is a manipulative tool that she's using against you.

She needs to know that she can come home when she is ready to eliminate OM from the picture.
I think I'm cried out for the moment. Probably happened 3-4 times yesterday afternoon during the exposure to close family and then 4 times this morning/afternoon on the heels of the blowup. Since then...maybe once or twice. I think I'm gradually getting stronger.

Funny the 'big boy pants' line...she occasionally likes to pull that one out in a semi-belittling tone when she thinks I'm being immature about something. (I don't think that you mean it in a condescending fashion...merely frank levity.)

I agree that the family stuff line from her was bull. It's a very stupid excuse, and I'm sure her parents would not be happy to hear it.

I don't think she'll kill herself either.

I feel like it should be understood, but I probably do need to relate the last point to her.

Oh, and I made the right decision in staying in our new home, yes? (She gave me a choice.)


Me: BS 28
Her: WS 27
Married: 2 years
D-Day 1: late Jul 10
D-Day 2: 8/12/10
D-Day 3: 9/30/10
Stage: Exposure Aftermath
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