GW,

If you are serious about recovering your M (not just trying,but committing to an M that is wonderful for your both), start with the following:

1. Commit to NC with OW(s) for life.
2. Tell BW everything she wants to know. Trickle truth is a "death of a thousand cuts", absolutely horrible to inflict on a BW.
3. Develop and write down a set of EPs that makes BW feel safe in the future. At a minimum, this includes cell phone and computer transparency.
4. Sign up for the Mb online program. DO the program.

Take the lead by doing these things, without being asked or dragged into it. You are correct. It will take time and energy.


AM

gwill, we are on your side! I am not saying these things to beat you up, but to impress upon you how important it is to get honest now. Why fight the truth when you have bigger fish to fry?

Please come back and talk to us. We can guide you out of this.

I highly doubt that SF is her CURRENT most important need.

For the majority of betrayed spouses , THE MOST URGENT EN after D-Day is ...

Put on your big-boy-work-boots, pick up your big-boy-work-shovel, wear your big-boy-work-helmet .... and GET TO WORK !!! ... and no whining allowed.

gwill, your wife wrote this on her thread:


Can you explain why you would say such a thing to your wife?

I've read the recent posts from Army and Melody and others, telling me what I should do. I have made my commitments and am working on addressing the needs. One of you commented that her most important need can't be SF but that's what she has said. That requires a state of mind that slowly getting there and that's because we haven't been having the "lambasting" as frequently. Indeed , we've been having some ok days.

I know we have a long way to go but the road appears calmer, not less difficult and I think that's a great step in the right direction.

gwill, I don't see an answer to my question, though. Did you read my post?

Yes, your post was read and the questin was read. The question about pretty didn't come up in a mild discussion. It was one of the times when I was being lambasted. (Not a complaint, just putting things in context). I was asked if I thought she was pretty and I said yes. I also said either directly following that admission or shortly thereafter, I don't really know of anyone I would say is ugly. I was neither comparing nor praising. Not then....not now

I never attempted to say how pretty she was. It was a very specific answer to the question. Anyway, at this time in a crisis like this, I realize everything takes on added significance and that I'm wrapping my head around.

I think you mean "it won't be because I didn't try." I don't think you can make her try.

Well, you know that was a pretty insensitive answer, right?

gwill, wouldn't you also agree that any woman that does a married man is pretty skanky? Any woman who is sleazy enough to do a married man is sleazy enough to drop her drawers for just about anything on 2 legs.

Tonight saw the start of my Open and Honest dialogue with my W. I recall someone's post that stated to my W that you will not like some of the things you hear but you need to hear them. Needless to say, it was another vision of inflicting of pain, which is not the intent. Pain and anger was magnified. I even heard about the attorney and the "D" word, which isn't a surprise. I noted another post that was sent to me in email where someone wrote that the pain may be equal on both sides. I don't know about that but the Pain and anguish I saw in her face, coupled with my D earlier statements, will haunt me for the rest of my life. I know, I understand...I brought this on with my merciless actions.

Dear gwill:

Please read my husband's and my threads.

He posts as Cantgetitright and I post as BrokenVase.

CGIR lied to me (both lies of comission and omission) for 30 years. New lies were needed to support old lies, and the result was that we had no intimacy, only a fictional relationship.

I found out the truth about one of his affairs only last week. This past Friday, I had a breakdown on the phone with him; this past Saturday he was e-mailing me documents proposing a division of our assets and I was e-mailing him "Plan FU" responses. He thought he had overwhelmed me with the truth of what he did; I thought he was still deceiving me. We were on our way to a divorce.

Now, we seemed to have turned it around. We're not out of the woods by any means, but we're hopeful.

I have been posting to your wife. I was where she is, and worse places, too.

You can make it work, but you must TELL YOUR WIFE THE TRUTH. EVERYTHING. Facts, details, thoughts, feelings. ANYTHING she wants to know.

Do it in the form of a timeline. Post to CGIR; he'll tell you how.

When you're done, and you feel you've discused everything, offer to take a polygraph. Travel outside your country if you need to. Make sure you pass that polygraph.

Call the Harleys and start working with them. If your conversations with your wife are too volatile, use the Harleys to help you talk to one another. If you can't find a way to say to your wife what needs to be said, use the Harleys to help you find a way.

Yes, your wife will be hurt, but she's been hurt before. Hurt by your actions, hurt by your lies, hurt by your gaslighting, and hurt by your withholdig your thoughts and feelings.

Now, you can continue to hurt her with these things, or you can TELL HER THE TRUTH and finally STOP hurting her. Any lying you're currently doing is to protect YOU not HER.

If you hurt too, it's a good thing; maybe you're seeing the enormity of your actions and inactions.

Then, stop hurting each other and start re-building. Or building. MB will show you the way.

BrokenVase

BrokenVase

I have read yours and your husbands. I am truly happy to see that you've turned things around and I wish you the best of luck. I find it amazing that you say you've been where she is and worse. I can't think of any place worse that where she is, but your statement is encouraging. I really can't see any light from where we are and I know it's not only my fault totally but also my life's duty to get her from that dark place. It is heart wrenching.

I have now started talking about the A's. The result was the most painful for me to see. I realized the fact that she tried to follow the guidance of others here at MB which is to listen, not interrupt and not get angry. That was too much to ask and as I said, the effect was heart wrenching. I'm to continue tonight but ...

Looking back at all my actions isn't a pretty thing. It shows a selfish, uncaring person but I never thought of it that way. I thought I was a completely different person. It was a total illusion. Now I'm determined to make her better and that may make me a better person and a better father. I have to get her back from the brink and help restore her self esteem, I hope its possible.

Aside from the obvious problem of the A's, I'm experiencing other major issues. Of course, the majority of our conversations are in an angry or frustrated way. If I'm asked a question and the first words of my response isn't what she want to hear, I never get a moment o finish or attempt to clarify. I realize she has no trust and no faith in me but if I'm asked a question, I'd like to think I should be allowed to respond, in whatever way I can as long as it's honest and truthful. That's not always possible because she blows up and I shut up.

My other issue is her belief that I have no feeling on these issues. This is because I am able to sleep at night and she only sleeps about 1 hour per night. I'm explaining that people respond differently to crisis. I'm able to sleep but I can't stop the dreams when they creep in. I also can't stop the mental zoning out when I'm driving on my way to my office which is one hour away. When I zone out with my eyes wide open and I run off the road, she's not there to see that. Or when I end up on the wrong side of the road, she's not there to verify that, yes, it's affecting him. She thinks that when I wake up, get dressed, go to work and force myself to function, it's not affecting me. It is killing me and the reason I haven't said anything is because I'm the cause of my problem and as it relates to me, it's of no concern to anyone. The concern is and should be on her. I put her in the black hole she's in and I have to get her back and that's what I'll do. I know it won't be easy and it won't be fast but...........I'm not going anywhere unless told to go. No Plan B allowed.

gwill,

I wondered whose WH you were. Teaser and I have posted back and forth a few times, and you've gotten some of my posts. Hope you enjoyed them!

You wonder if anyone has been as desperate as teaser? Will she get better?

I tried once to shove myself under the bed, because I just could not cope one more moment with facing my H, not facing what he had done, not facing the TRICKLE TRUTH OF HIS MESS.

I died the death of a thousand cuts with my husband. He would not offer one scrap of information unless I asked the exact question, using the exact wording, in the exact manner to extract the response I needed. He never offered more than what I asked, and only within the specific limits of the question. This behavior was angering, and led to long drawn out marathon talks. Of trickle truth.

He stabbed me over and over, then complained about the blood on the floor. He would say, "You already asked this." Only, each time, I had to ask broader questions....

One time I might ask, "Did you ever go anywhere in public together?" He answered this NO - several times.

Then, I got wiser.

I asked, "Did you ever go to the park?" No. "Oh, is this "public?"
Did you ever go:
to a restaurant - no, I guess that is also public, huh
to her office - yes .... oh.....is this "public?"

finally, I got the idea:

"Did you ever go anywhere with her outside of our home?"

Now THAT is a broad question!

"Yes."

WHERE WERE THESE PLACES, OUTSIDE OF OUR HOME, THAT THE TWO OF YOU WENT, THAT THE TWO OF YOU TRAVELED TO, EITHER SEPARATELY OR TOGETHER, THAT RESULTED IN THE TWO OF YOU BEING TOGETHER AT A LOCATION NOT IN OUR HOME, BUT A LOCATION OUTSIDE OF OUR HOME, THAT WAS WHERE THE TWO OF YOU WERE TOGETHER? NAME THE EXACT LOCATION OR LOCATIONS THAT ARE SPECIFICALLY THESE LOCATIONS THAT ARE NOT INCLUDING INSIDE OF OUR HOME.

He thought I was crazy. However, there is NO WIGGLE ROOM THERE, Right?

Oh, yes, apparently there is.

They took a motorcycle ride, that resulted in no specific "location" being reached, that being that they rode, and then returned, to the garage.

I found THIS OUT because I asked:

HAVE THE TWO OF YOU EVER TRAVELED, VIA ANY TRANSPORTATION, NOT LIMITED TO BUT INCLUDING, CARS, MOTORCYCLES, PLANES, TRAINS, OR TRUCKS? THIS INCLUDES ALL MOTOR VEHICLES, BUT COULD INCLUDE WALKING, RUNNING, JOGGING, BICYCLING, AND ANY OTHER FORMS OF TRANSPORTATION, AND IS NOT LIMITED TO TRAVELING WITH OTHER PEOPLE INCLUDING YOU AND YOUR AFFAIR PARTNER IN THE SAME MODE OF TRANSPORTATION.

Oh.....well.....yeah. We did take a motorcycle ride out the canyon......




This was about 8 months out from d-day.


Do you see how this drags d-day out????????


How do you expect anyone to recover, when d-day JUST KEEPS HAPPENING OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER?


Do you think that the whole thing is just so dammmmmmm funny?
You speak of seeing teaser in pain, yet you continue to stab her.
My husband continued to stab me.

The truth of this is: I STILL BELIEVE HE IS HIDING SOMETHING FROM ME, BECAUSE HE TRICKLED HIS TRUTH FOR SO LONG THAT I DO NOT BELIEVE I KNOW EVERYTHING. HIS STUPID APPROACH HAS RESULTED IN THE COMPLETE LOSS OF MY TRUST THAT I HAVE, OR EVER WILL HAVE, THE TRUTH.

AND, HE KNOWS THIS. IT BURNS HIS SOUL. IT BURNS MINE.

AND WE....ARE....FIVE YEARS FROM D-DAY THIS MONTH.

It is no game. Your secrets are secrets because you are ashamed.

Do you want to be just like my husband, five years from now? Because just last week he said that his one wish was that I could trust what he says.

My one wish is


that I could trust what he says.


Odd, that we both share the longing for the very thing he burned.



YOU, EC, can salvage your burn pile.


Stop lighting matches right now.
Your salvation is in one choice, and one choice only.

The full and complete story, told honestly and openly, from the heart

by you

in a full narrative

without teaser having to beg for it.


Grow some conjones. Do this.





Schoolbus.

I agree with SB, it is the death of a thousand cuts. My H just lied. I caught him in two one night stands, he lied to me for a year about whether there were more of them. Then he up and decided one day to admit that he slept with one of those women twice, and three others. Thats when the trickle truth started. He couldnt kep his stories straight, he would lie to me about issue A one day and tell the truth about issue B, then the next day it was the truth about B and a lie about A.

He would tell me no he didnt do something just long enough for me to start cling to the "well at least he didnt...let her stay the night, or have feelings for her, or sleep with anyone while I was pregnant..." and then rip it from my by admitting he had.

I dont even remember those months. I know I ate, slept, talked to people, took care of my kids, but I its like remembering a dream for the most part. All of my mental energy went into trying to put together pieces of a puzzle that just didnt fit.

The things I do remember from that time are the bad things. Loosing 7 pounds in 7 days, not being able to hold down food, my hair all falling out, constant nightmares and being afraid to sleep, rapid and unpredictable mood swings from euphoria, to homocidal rage, to suicidal depression.

Just the sound of his voice would make my blood pressure go up, and I could feel the adrenaline pump and my body go into fight or flight mode. He was my enemy, my mental terrorist. I woke up one morning and said hello to him and he announced that one of the women was while I was pregnant, I never knew when or what he was going to say. The physical toll on me was horrible. I helped a friend out with her nursing assistant exam, and when she took my vital signs the examiner made her retake it three times, then took it again herself and kindly told me I should make a doctor's appointment because that couldnt possibly be healthy.

He nearly drove me insane, there is no way to find your balance, no way to begin to accept or to heal. He told me once that he lied because he thought of he told me the truth all at once it would be more than I could handle, but he was killing me.

I will never believe him, he could pass a million polygraphs and I would still never believe him. Dont do that to your wife, or to yourself.

RFA

Thanks for your post. It sound like you're talking about me at times and the emotions, I have definitely seen those. I do have the thought that being brutally honest would be too much for her. But, I've decided to just get the details told.

I note that you're working towards R and I say Kudos for that. Best of luck.

What exactly is this "too much" thing? What are you afraid that will happen?