Hi Hitch,

I have to say I agree with Constant and a few others here in that you are bleeding all over the place now in trying to reconcile your M, and that your H has shown himself to be an immature brat!! Granted, anyone would be hurt and devastated by betrayal. Not that many people tho would reap their vengance on their life partner. I don't think you have to get that detailed on the day-to-day, but his insulting you in terms of your messing up whatever you do is beyond pale. Normal men do not act like this, and I am afraid you are marriied to an abnormal. Do you really want to have your family with this guy??

Hitch, get a grip and put this guy out now. Do not just tell him, do it. You seem like a very very nice person. I have never criticised my W like you have said he has. Yea, we have had arguments and words were said, but not like this. I have never stayed out all night. If I have, which I have, dismissed my wife for a question she asked, I came back pretty soon, apologized, and we reconciled.

Hitch, I realize this is strong, but you have the rest of your life to live, including giving life to your future kids, but I do not think for a minute it could be with this vile creep.

Please please get a grip.

I have not been married for 40 years, raised two wonderful children, out of luck and hope.

My prayers to you tonight Hitch, but please hear them thru Your God.

Tom

Like I said a long time ago.. H needs a therapist

The last convo with him you did a fair job hitch on speaking your mind. Grats.


Now lets put the convictions into actions, and demand a better marraige.

Jim I have to respectivly disagree with you that Hitch hasn't given H a reason to trust her. IMO he never did and thats an internal reason we can only speculate on. His mother, Hitchs softhearted non demanding ways, and maybe a lot of wishful thinking with little communication on both thier parts.

Fact is if we believe Hitchs history He has allways treated her with kid gloves and kept her at arms length regaurding true intimacy. It didn't start with her A, thats just some of the nasty fallout.

What does Dr. H say about this hitch? Is he game for plan B? Have you done some research on the forum about how it will be? What you will go thru? Are you ready?

Its the only way to do this with respect to his state of mind. He must agree you both need a plan and be humble enough to follow one.

You must fight for yourself and fight fair.

Constant,

The sign on the door is Marriage Builders.

Hitch didn't ask for us to agree with her that her H has acted like a jerk.

That is undeniably true.

There is no excuse for his behavior.

She asked for help in saving her M...

AND...

SPECIFICALLY...

what made me give my W a second chance.

I participated with Mrs.Flint in Marriage Builders because she showed me that she no longer had the same opinion of me as during the affair with my brother.

You can either be right or you can be married.

There is no fairness card to be played or her H would never have had to deal with her affair and she would not have to deal with his childish reaction to it.

The FIRST thing she has to do BEFORE any plan B has a prayer of working is to get him to see he has something he may lose...

Right now he feels he will lose NOTHING if she goes to plan B BECAUSE he has already lost his W to the OM.

The first step is to give him something of value that he may lose if she goes to plan B.

Right now he will simply wave goodbye...

Hitch can play it however she wants...

but her H has to be in the game for her to play.

Jim

I agree Jim. He will have to want to be in the game. He will have to value his wife.

I don't think he does or ever has really valued her outside of when he wanted to. Judging on his actions.

I don't want her to accually hate him before she goes to plan B if she has to. Also Dr. H told her she should wait until she couldn't stand it anymore or the strain got so great she would LB.

His trashing the plan B letter and not even remembering what it said to me was a sign that he doesn't take her seriuos. I don't belive that he doesn't love her in ,ugh, "his own way" but I don't call it love. I feel he would treat her that way over fixing the lamp, the A was just a little to uncomfortable for his ego. I base that assumtion on how he said to her at one time. "I have done nothing wrong".

What I beleive is that she must make him care for her instead of dragging her heart around. You know and I do also what it feels like to be cheated on and lied to. Fortunatly you also know you can get over it in time. I understand it is probably his big reason now why he doesn't attend to her. What was his reason before? I too have experienced how long it takes to recover from Adultry, and the hoops you expect your WS to jump thru. In time you must go back to how you treated them before and concern for thier feelings. My conviction is he had little concern to begin with.

How do we deal with that without trying to make him believe that her A was his fault? The disrespect he showed for her gave her an excuse to disrespect herself IMO. It still exists and won't go away until he is forced to respect his marriage as he should have in the first place.

I know what you mean. you can be right or be married. I can forgive my wife for her affairs but I will feel pain every time I think about them, so I really don't forget. I had to ACT like they didn't happen and they were not relevent to our marraige because whatever we COULD have we would have to put the past in the past and go from here. It didn't mean she was right for having them but I didn't use them for an excuse to ignore her emotional needs or issues, that would have sealed the doom of the marriage.

I say ask Dr. H what limit she should take on a Plan A. I don't think H knows what to do accually right now but he seems to find reasons to IB and allways has. How does he see that is what I want to know.

This is so very true.

Dr Harley has said that the path to recovery is very NARROW. I would add that it makes it even narrower when both spouses have had affairs (but one day you might also find that you UNDERSTAND each other better affairwise since you both have been waywards). My own experience tells me that it is so very tempting to seek justification to my poor behaviour by pointing to his poor choices to cheat on me. It wasn't that I did it on purpose, but it tended to turn out that way all the time.
I remember I looked for fairness (since we both had affairs), that he has no right to say anything to me BECAUSE "what he has done to me, TOO!" It won't work and I'm sure you know it. Changing your behaviour also means changing the way you think and talk.
MIL's can be hard, but you are not married to her, even if she would want to stay "close"... Don't give HER the pleasure to be in the middle of your lives, topics, etc, REMOVE her entirely.
Look around your house and stuff, if there is ANY item which may link you to OM, throw it away. Invite your H to set a bonfire and burn them all.

Thanks guys for all your posts, my head is now spinning. I do feel like a failure sometimes for not knowing what to do and not doing the right thing which seems to be the main feedback I am getting.

Seeing posts like Toms terrifies me. Then again, seeing posts like Jims worries me that I am not doing all the right things.

I have been doing lots of what you suggest Jim such as showing love, lust, respect and getting dressed up. I am doing all of this. I seriously have, I have implemented all the previous things you suggested like telling him OM meant nothing to me. So I have been listening and doing those things, but that is not stopping his outbursts and disrespectful acts. How many people would stay in a situation for 7 months watching there spouse come and go with OW and doing disrespectful acts? I believe that even those BS are not recommended to be in Plan A that long....

The fundamental problem I have here is my H has seeked revenge, he has wanted to see me suffer. He has gone all out to do this.
How do I get past this? How do I build a life with someone who wants to inflict such consistent ongoing pain? I have been able to look past it because of my A, but for how long? How do I come to term with that, when he starts 'wanting' me again.

I had to lie to my Dad yesterday, when he said to me, Hitch is he starting to respect you more? I said yes, I could not tell him about the fact he stayed out all night Friday. To add insult to injury, I actually had a viral infection which got worse after how upset I was Friday night. I am not looking for sympathy, I am just telling you facts.

I am totally confused. I love him want to spend time with him, but fed up with him treating me like a leper.

The 2 of us even joked about it the other day, I said would it be easier if you took me down to the local square and had me flogged? I think it would be easier for me, as it would be over quicker? He laughed and said thats not a bad idea. ( this was very tongue in cheek you know).

This morning I crept into his bed, and hugged him lots and showed my desire for him. We had sf, and he actually kissed me before he went to work. That is the first time he has gone to kiss me since D Day. My H also said in the Spring I will build us that out house. So I know he doesn't want us to split up and I know he wants me and yes building that trust up can take time and patience.

However, I am frightened about the core values/personality of my H. What do I do about that?

Maybe its time for me to forgive him for his actions. My H was never cruel before the A. He was pretty much a doting H who would do anything I asked him. Friends and family commented on how much he doted on me. There were issues before the A such as both of our IB, lack of understanding as to what made a good M, not communicating with each other and not meeting each others ENs.

I understand your pain, Hitch, and you are not a failure, quite the contrary, you are doing a good job and everybody here can tell that you have put all your heart and energy into it.



The sad thing is that many do that. Some move to plan B, it was discussed in your thread earlier.


This is his way of handling your A. And he obviously doesn't have any tools except by getting even. Is it somehow possible for your H to join the forum? Or talk to Harleys? It's obvious he needs help.

You get past the direct mistreatment by removing yourself from the situation. Protecting your boundaries daily means to let other person know about them (which you have) and also act accordingly. When you say, stop treating me like this, then this is only half of the apple. When he goes on mistreating you, you walk away, and won't wait until all the conversation is out of control, but quite immediately, this is how you protect what you mean.

Or you really choose to Plan B. I have never been in Plan B, so I don't have any good advice on that, but in your case it still might be necessary, I suggested you contact other people, Scotland for example, or atena for that matter, who are doing it and know a lot about it.

I wouldn't worry so much about the problem how to come to terms with all that when he starts wanting you again. First of all he has not shown anything big yet. When the time comes and then he will act accordingly, make efforts, won't lovebust and you will see it and can make the decision.

I understand that it is hard to change your opinion about your H when he has not changed a bit, or let's say, not much. But you can show him what kind of M you want, by NOT comparing him to his mother all the time, because this is OLD you. Jim_Flint's post was brilliant at that point.

Your escalating dialogue example was about your attempt to set boundaries, but not entirely, the thing what was left dominating was love busting and I think I'm not very far from the truth when I say that this is exactly the thing we don't want to be anymore, yet we keep giving it to our spouses from time to time. Lovebusting is a tricky thing. When you have lovebusted him once, then it may take you like 10 love bank deposits to make it up to him...

FWIW, it is frustrating sometimes to NOT know what to say back, when you know that you need to be kind and loving, even if you want to be unkind and unloving, because the other one is exactly it. I have used the technique to just shut up. I'm not entirely successful in that, though. My excuse to shut up is that I have every right to consider carefully my next step, and think before I act. Sometimes it may seem awkward to your partner, when you just shut up, but the fact that you are thinking how to take his feelings into account and he actually sees that you are considering his feelings, may deposit some love units and cool him down.

Hitch, you have every hope. You say that your H used to be much different before your A, in fact he used to dote on you. It's clear that you miss that him. Have you told him that you miss him? And it is also clear that your A is very hard for him to deal with. Still is.

All my hugs to you, Hitch. No one is used to take only right steps, or is the right person all over. We all learn. As you have noticed the common knowledge about M in our society is ... well there is no knowledge whatsoever!

Hi Niitse

Thanks for your post, means a lot. Just feeling very low and tired, I really admire those that go through this and have children.

I don't know really what to say or where to go from here, I guess just stay in Plan A, but I have a personal limit which is he disrespects me by staying out again or being with OW that is my limit and I want him out of my life. I will not tell him this, but it is my personal limit.

Again, I do love him but believe that his reaction to my A, is his way of dealing with it.

I want everyone to understand that i do have a fertility clock buzzing out loud here, which causes issues and my fears about how things were prior to the A on both parts.

Easy answers on a post it note please!!!!!

If you are not going to act on this limit, what do you mean by personal limit then?

I'm sorry that you feel down and tired and afraid. And I'm sure the whole situation has taken its toll and you might feel at your wits end. You need some rest. Could you plan something fun with your H for tonight?

I mean as in it's that point I implement plan b properly, as in I am not going to tell my H as that would be giving him warning or would come across as a threat. I just can't cope with it.


We are going out for the day Sunday, my suggestion, were taking the bikes over to the local forest and going somewhere nice for lunch.

I am just fed up of this situation it has gone on for 18 months since the A. I am sure my H is too.

I see, thanks for explaining.

My H said that after 14 months in recovery he started to feel BETTER about the whole thing, so it is very individual.

Usually, people engage to fix the problem when the status quo is painful enough, appaerantly it is not painful enough for him yet. Or may be it is already? As you say you're sure your H is fed up too. Has he told you this?

If he's fed up, too ... Have you told him about MB, and the forum here? (How would you feel if I shared marriagebuilders with you?) You might give it a try.

Nice to hear that you have made plans.

Hitch
Hi there and I hope today is a little better for you.
I think you should do what I did with my husband, he wasn't sure and wasn't acting like he wanted to keep our marriage in place either in the beginning, after a few months of Plan A ing him I gave him a date that he had to decide what his plan for the future would be......I just told him that living in all the stress of him having an affair and not recommitting to our marriage was to much for me and that he would have to decide by a certain date or move on with his life. I would just let him go, I also told him that if he left that I was not interested in even a friendship with him, that I needed to heal from all that had happened and that only could happen with him out of my life........
I wasn't angry, I just left the decision up to him and I went on and lived my life, I told him that I always loved him and that I was willing to forgive him and move on with our lives in a better way ..........
I gave him plenty of time before I had the deadline date, and so have you......
Hitch he lived by my request and decided to give our marriage and our life together another chance and we are both happier because of that choice, if I hadn't made his choose which life he wanted to live I don't know where we would be now......18 months is a long time to live in limbo.......maybe he won't really commit until he has to......

Good post N

Thanks all

I have had enough really, if I am honest. I just want to be happy and settled and moving on with my life, and I am trying to do this with a H thats all over the place. I see friends that are happy and it is even too painful for me to go on facebook and see people getting on with their lives and talking about how great things are.

With all that I have learnt about what makes a good marriage, and what my boundaries are it just makes my H treatment of me even worse. Today we are both working from home, its a beautiful sunny day, and he has gone to play 9 holes of golf. Tomorrow is going to be nice and he is playing golf again, then at my suggestion we are going out for the day on Sunday.

This is exactly how things were before the A. Is this my lot? I deserve better.

My H has counselled with SH, the first session he said he was talking a load of bull the second session really got him thinking, he was upset as SH told im that my A was more emotional. Maybe the time is right to get him in for a 3rd session. Something else to try? Starting to feel like I am bagning my head against a brick wall here.

Oh by the way, I asked him today if he is still in contact with the OW. He said well not really but I am not going to be rude to them and ignore them if they text me? I said I am not trying to control you H but for the marriage to work there has to be no contact with them, he got mad, if I had have persued it another row would have happened. Again.

He still is fighting the impulse to believe its all his fault. He seems so isolated from what I can tell.

You need to talk to SH and get his take on what husband said about the sessions he had and bring him up to date.

Hang in there

Sounds like that makes a lotta sense Hitch

Constant

Thank you so much for taking time out to respond to my post, you are very kind. You words are of great comfort to me.

I am in impatient bu**er, I just want things to be RIGHT. I can't control him, I can only demonstrate in my own actions whats required.

I know he wont let me down he loves me to much, its just getting him to work alongside me and piecing this marriage back together and spending our lives together.

I too want to avoid Plan B, but if he shows extremely destructive behaviour again then Ihave no choice.

Have a lovely weekend all, the sun is shining here in England, I live near the beach so am going to go down there and take a walk.

I'll be back with the link to the youtube vid......

Hitch, confession time for me here.

I hit a point in my hurt and anger where I said a stupid thing. I told my FWW that I felt like I wanted to leave. I wanted to get out, maybe "see what's out there."

A part of me wanted to step back and breathe. A part of me was revenge driven. I never believed it, but I said it.

Her response stunned me. "If you feel like you need to see other people, then do it, but you aren't leaving."

I was stunned. Floored.

If I had known what was going on while it was going on, I would have walked. If she had not ended it before I found out, I would have walked. (ok, may not be being honest here - every time I have tried to walk, I have asked permission... bleh)

And here she was, telling me that she would suffer seeing my actions, and knowing what was going on right in front of her. I'm not sure she completely knew what it would have did to her.

I understand, though. She just wasn't going to go down without a fight. Period.

Hitch, I admire your strength and dedication. It's something that I feel that I lack myself. If my FWW wasn't as on board as she has been from... well, I was going to say day 1, but from revelation of the A, I couldn't have stuck it out even these few months.