I've been working up the courage to write this post for a long time.
I'm the WW, 33. BH is 36, 1 child DD 7.
I had a 2 year PA that ended a little over 3 years ago. My behaviour was atrocious, awful, deplorable during this time and it took me a long time to wake up to that fact even after the A ended. My H fought very hard to keep me, he reacted pretty much the opposite way I would have expected.. AT FIRST. He discovered my A one year after it became physical.. but you know how these things work; it didn't completely end for another year after his discovery because I was such a fool. I was so screwed up at the time, H pretty much carried the load until I got right in the head. It took me a good year to get right after I cut off all contact with OM.
So the problem is, around about the time I was getting right, H was starting to fully realize what happened. I think he fought so hard for so long, he wasn't able to process the whole thing at first. So about 2 years ago is when the real problems started.
Before I go into some of them, let me just defend my H a little bit- he is absolutely devastated even now and he is just having a horrible time with this whole thing. I've handled this horribly, too... especially right after he found out and right after it ended.

So, rewind 2 years ago and my H started going through the anger stage. It got really bad as he began to yell and scream at me daily, call me names, etc. And he also began to obsess about the sexual details of my affair. He began to start demanding that I do some of the things sexually that I did with OM... and these are things that I'm ashamed of, things I didn't and don't want to do, things I've refused to do for the most part. This of course caused horrible fights with him feeling slighted, him calling me more names and the anger escalating, etc. This whole cycle went on for a number of months- way too long.
We were in counseling at the time, which was a disaster btw as my husband had absolutely no problem arguing with every single counselor we could find. I
eventually decided that I was going to have to end the marriage, because I couldn't deal with the constant barrage of name calling that I was hearing every single night. Let me just say that even then I wasn't fully cognizant of all the damage I had caused, and I really should have handled BH more gently even though I do believe it was time to put my foot down.
Anyway, it's a long story.. but we eventually came to the following compromise:
1. He was not to call me names ever again.
2. I agreed to discuss all the sexual details with the A with him whenever he felt the need in order to help him get over it.
3. He could ASK me for anything he wanted in bed, but I had a right to say no if I felt uncomfortable with it.
4. He would 'take steps to protect himself' (I had no idea what that meant then, now I do) financially in case the M didn't work out.

Now, looking back I didn't realize this... BUT this deal infuriated my H as he somehow felt I was blackmailing him in a play to get custody of our daughter... which wasn't my intentions at all. AND I also think he was having an impossible time coping with my A. To make a very long story short, what happened after that at first was-

1. He quit his job and started his own business.
2. He moved our savings into trusts and cash and money that can't be traced (we are not rich people, believe me... we are not talking about a lot of money here).
3. He continued obsessively questioning me about the sexual details of the A.
4. He started to ask me- like EVERYDAY- do to things sexually that I didn't want to do (I didn't and haven't done them).

If I didn't want to have long conversations about the physical intimacy that I had with OM, it turned into a huge fight (I admit I HATE having these conversations). When I wouldn't agree to do certain things in bed with him, instead of namecalling and yelling at me, he started to punish me in other ways. He would give me the silent treatment, or be incredibly disagreeable with everything else, or just be a total jerk.

This is where the marriage REALLY started to go downhill because it was like a mexican standoff. At this point his animosity towards me is always bubbling below the surface. He either tolerates me dismissively or is outright hostile towards me. He continues with the obsessing about the sex with OM even to this day and if I won't discuss it it turns into a weeklong silent treatment. He does WHATEVER he wants now. He doesn't really do anything too bad, but if he wants to go out with the boys and stay out till 2am, he does it no matter what I say. He gives me 0 input into where the money is going (he IS responsible with it, so that's not the issue). He still asks me all the time to do sexual acts that he knows I don't want to do... and our sex life has totally gone down the tubes, which he blames me for.

I just don't know what to do. I've put up with a lot of these strange behaviours because I love him and it was my actions that got us into this mess in the first place. But I can't reach out to him anymore because his idea of getting past this is punishing me or punishing himself. Divorce is out of the question. First of all, we need both incomes to make it. And also divorce would likely result in him getting custody of our daughter and I can't have that. He has compiled detailed 'journals' as a backup plan in case I file for divorce and he has to fight for custody. And he has made it perfectly clear that he will use every single dime we've worked hard for to fight in the divorce (and I won't have the same option, because the money is hidden where I can't get at it).

Before you ask, he is not having an A, I'm as sure as I can possibly be. That's what my parents thought and I actually had him followed and installed a keylogger on the computer. But he is despondent and really having a hard time. Any advice on what to do about this whole thing?

Oh, I forgot there is one more thing. H wants to sell our house. He says he never wanted it in the first place (this is true) and that because of me insisting on buying the house we have lost 50k (I don't look at it like that). He is threatening to stop making the mortgage payment if I won't sign off on selling it (he makes much more money than I do, I can't even come close to paying it myself). He actually thinks this is reasonable, because we've had the house for 5 years and so he thinks we should be able to rent for 5 years now because I had my way for 5 years. Does that make any sense?

He has PTSD Post traumatic stress disorder. Your affair has changed his personality. Does he have nightmares? He needs one on one counseling. He feels inferior to your affair partner and the OM is in the room with you all the time. If you did things with your affair partner for two years that you won't do with your husband, what exactly is he supposed to take away from that? Your husband looks at the acts as though you gave the OM part of yourself that you deny him. How is he wrong about that? Making love to you is no longer about enjoying each other its about him trying to perform up to the level of the OM. A standard he feels he can never live up to.

Don't sign off on the house. Worse to rent. Next after you learn MB then see if you can get him to share it with you.

Also things have gone so wrong and so bad you may not be able to turn things around on your own. Maybe if you can get professional help from the Harley's. Give them a call. Their great at giving spouses strategies on how to recover.

SF, if you were able to do all those with a smile for the OM and your BH has always wanted these things from you has made it almost impossible for your BH not to expect the same performances. It's another story if the things you did with the OM were a total turn off for BH and he never wants to do these things. Your BH may never even thought to ask you to do these things before but you woke up the sleeping dragon.

Problem is boundaries have not been set in place post affair for you and you BH. Call the Harley�s I have seen them handle cases as bad as yours.

How did your BH find out?

Was the OM a neighbor, coworker?

Very important question: Why was he having fights with these counselors?

The OM was a friend of a friend. My A caused all kinds of broken friendships, hurt feelings, taking sides, etc... it really destroyed so much good out there.

The sex issue is complicated. It's humiliating to admit this, but during my A I acted like a real slut... totally out of character for me. Some of the things I did would not be healthy to do in a marriage (I won't go into details, but there was another person involved in some acts). Others are completely against my morals, and didn't I get myself and my family in this mess by not respecting myself? But there were/are some things I would like to try w/ my husband, but unfortunately it's the stuff he is not interested in. BTW I find it very difficult to let go and be vulnerable with someone that used to call me all these names (he doesn't do that anymore but he is always furious with me, which is also hard); and plus anytime I have opened up w him I feel he has used it against me by freaking out that I have 'learned from other man'. And then my BH hasn't accepted certain things which he has to accept. For instance, in his mind because I never refused OM for sex, I should never refuse him. That's just not realistic even under the best of circumstances as this is marriage not an affair.... I know this is not fair, but it is the way that it is. So there are all these hangups, which in his mind are my problem to solve... BUT in my mind we need both of us to solve them.

As far as the reasons my BH fought w/ counselors, there were 3 of them and there were all kinds of disagreements (some of them I do feel that my BH was right, others I feel the counselor was right). One fight that he had w/ 1 of the counselors that I actually thought was a good counselor was that the counselor was trying to gently inform BH that continually talking about sex details of the A night after night, hour after hour, was not a productive way to reconcile. This goes on even now, although at least now it's not every single day. But for a year or maybe even more, that's ALL my BH wanted to talk about.
Also, my BH got into a huge fight with our first counselor who was terrible. The counselor was basically trying to blame BH for my A. Of course BH was in the right on that one.

As far as calling the Harley's, I may try that at some point. It would be a bad idea to approach BH with the idea, though... he has a very low opinion of counselors. Unlike most BH he will actually go, but it always turns into a huge waste of time and money.

He is right. You are wrong. You are making your husband second. You were willing to be another man's sl**, but you can't be that way for the man who married you.
That's a double standard and not only have you emasculated your husband, you continue to devalue him by proving you were willing to devalue yourself for someone who wasn't your husband.

It was realistic enough for you for the OM. Yet you deny your husband his wishes. I can understand his anger.

This post is ridiculous. Did you even read my first post? My BH called me names- like whore, [censored], etc (and a whole lot worse than that) for MONTHS. And even then I rarely turned him down. I still rarely turn him down (it will turn into a gigantic fight if I do). I'm just not willing to bring another person into our bedroom, and I haven't been willing to do certain things which I find immoral which I never should have done in the first place.
Are you saying that I should never in my life be able to turn my husband down for sex? What if my shower is broken and I smell bad? Or what if I have diarreah? Really hurtful post, thanks.

No..but how often did you turn down the OM?

I already said that I didn't turn him down. But it was a 2yr A, not a lifelong Marriage.

So the affair deserves more of you than your marriage?

The difference is that she was in love with the OM and it didn't feel like a "request" for different sexual favors but a natural progression of their love for each other. She never felt like she was a $lut to the OM.

Absolutely not. My BH didn't deserve any of this. But it's DONE. And the problem with my marriage is, EVEN IF I never turned my husband down for sex for the rest of my life, it wouldn't change anything because my husband won't be satisfied with that.
Now let me ask you a question: we've spent the better part of over 2 years talking about NOTHING except the sexual details of my A. This is incredibly painful for both of us, my H already knowfs everything that there is to know, and talking about it is not going to change anything. Do you think this is helping us putting our marriage back together? I think it's killing us.

It sounds like it sooo broken that neither one of you can get past it. Trust is something that takes a lot of time to build but can easily and quickly be broken. I understand the reason you are still in your marriage is primarily financial..I never felt that "love" was in the equation. Sometimes I think its better to accept that what happened cannot be changed or forgotten. Your husband is not made that way. He was deeply hurt by your indiscretion and he doesn't understand why you went outside the marriage to get the things you needed. I suggest that you stop hurting each other, try separation, and move on and enjoy life again. You are re-living your nightmare over and over. Its time to be happy again. Everyone makes mistakes.

obviously he is not being fulfilled with something. Something that he is seeking from you and somehow he feels he is not getting it.
Talking about it does help if it is done properly. It appears he is punishing himself with the details.
Are you doing all you can to help him heal?

outofkilter, Welcome to Marriage Builders. I want to say that you are exactly right to refuse to do sexually disgusting things with your husband. That would be a disaster. I am surprised you feel like having sex with him AT ALL with the hostility in your relationship.

I have a few questions.

1. have you answered all his questions about the affair completely and fully?

2. have you ended ALL contact with the OM? Do you or your H EVER see him?

3. is there anything in your lives that triggers his anger?

Dr Harley's stance on this is that once all the facts have been given about the affair, that it should NEVER be brought up again. Your H is triggering himself by continually bringing it up and he is ruining his marriage. I don't imagine you feel any love for him, do you? I don't see how you could.

Here is what Dr Harley has written about this:

Using resentment as a way to control and punish a spouse

I'm convinced that what's kept the resentment of S.R.'s husband alive for so many years is that he has found it to be an effective way to control and punish her whenever she doesn't do what he wants. Whenever they have a fight, he brings it up, and it causes her such guilt that it gives him a decided advantage in winning the argument.

By this time, I don't believe that her affair is the problem that she thinks it is. Instead, it is an issue that her husband is using to get the upper hand in his relationship with her. It probably shows up the most whenever she has been reluctant to have sex with him. It throws her off balance whenever he mentions it, and makes her feel guilty, wanting to make it up to him somehow. He may also bring it up whenever she is winning in a power struggle he is having with her.

What she describes to me in her letter is abuse, pure and simple. There is no excuse for the way her husband keeps bringing up her moment of weakness she experienced years ago. He is disrespectful and abusive.

I suggest that she look him right in the eye and say to him, "Listen Buster, do you love me? Do you want me to love you? Do you want to spend the rest of your life with me? If the answers to any of those questions is 'yes' you sure are going about it the wrong way. You are not doing things that I admire, you're doing things that I find disgusting!"

What if he says, "Fine, then lets just get a divorce and end it all."

To that I would say, "It's up to you. I married you for life, but if you want a divorce, it's your call. If you want to be in a love relationship with me, however, you're going to have to treat me much better than you have been treating me. You must never again bring up my affair, and if you are upset with me, you will have to treat me with respect until we can solve the problem. If you are upset with our sexual relationship, I want us to discuss it as adults and solve it with mutual respect. I refuse to be treated like this, especially by the man I love."

My advice to her husband is to never mention her affair again. It's a good example of one of the enemies of good conversation, dwelling on past mistakes. Whenever you keep bringing up your spouses past mistakes, you not only make your conversations incredibly unpleasant, but it cannot possibly lead to a resolution of a conflict you may be discussing. And as soon as his resentment doesn't pay him any dividends -- no longer helps him get his way -- he will find that it hardly ever occurs to him.

Hanging on to an unpleasant thought because it helps us somehow is what psychologists call "secondary gain." It means that even though the thought is unpleasant, it gets you something you need, so your mind keeps it around for its usefulness. There are many unpleasant thoughts that have this characteristic, and I have helped many people let them go by helping them destroy the usefulness of the thought. Making sure that S.K.'s husband never gets what he wants by bringing up her affair will help him overcome his resentment. here

There are counselors as good as the Harley's but they are few and far in between.

It sounds as if you never had a"good" Harley caliper conselor. Call them.

Next set a boundary that affairs will only be spoken of tue and thur eve for 1 hour. You are open to all questions. You will answer all. It's been a over a year of non stop talking about the affair. It is no healthy to continue talking non stop about the affair.
This was Friday thru Mondays can be used to heal, UA time, so you two can enjoy part of the week.

As to OM being a friend of a friend. How has this impacted friendships for BH and you. From what you said there were friends that thought the PA was OK?

Did these friends know about the PA before BH?
Did any of these friends give BH a heads up about the PA?
Are you still seeing any of these friends now?
What about BH and this circle of friends now?

outofkilter, Call the Harleys for an appointment. And please don't say you can't afford it. Do you have any idea what divorce costs?

You have done massive damage to your marriage and you have done massive damage to your husband, both as a human being and as a man. And all you do is complain about how badly he treats YOU.

Believe me, you have no idea what you've done to him - but he is trying to make you see that. That's what all the raging and name-calling and endless questioning is about.

And you still don't get that, do you?

You are not entitled to keep your marriage after the terrible damage you have done to it. You are not entitled to be annoyed with your betrayed husband because he is suffering and that's inconvenient for YOU.

He wants you to understand what you have done to him, but you refuse to do so and simply get defensive and angry instead. You will never heal anything with that attitude, including yourself.

Call the Harleys. You will need to find some humility about what you have done and you will need to find some empathy for the person you have injured so badly. The Harleys might be able to help you with this.

I agree with the previous poster that you should call the Harleys for help, you're going to need a lot more than folks here are going to be able to give you.

Your husband's independent behaviors probably stem from the fact that you were able to do things with the scumbag friend that you are not willing to do with your husband. Has nothing to do with morals, has everything to do with you treating the scumbag friend with more respect and devotion than you do your husband. Since your husband sees this, he feels that there is no longer a reason that you should have a say in what he wants to do. When you say he didn't want the house but you did, he probably feels that you forced him into it, that he did it to please you despite his misgivings, and so now he's going to rectify that mistake. Leads me to wonder what you were like to him before your affair and would almost bet he feels that he let you walk over him and that isn't going to happen anymore.

So, yes, I would contact the Harley's because whatever you've been doing obviously isn't working and to be honest, your whole post sounds like "My husband isn't getting over it on my time schedule." You acknowledge that he did a LOT of work to get you to stop the affair, and you treated him horribly before, during and after but you don't go much into what you've done to provide just compensation or to recover your marriage other than dictate what he can and can't do.

Yes, it is killing your marriage. It keeps the affair top of mind for both of you. This is why Dr Harley says once the facts are known, it should NEVER BE BROUGHT UP AGAIN.

outofkilter, I would implore you to get phone counseling wtih Steve Harley. He does not believe in counseling couples together and I believe he could reason with your husband. The Harleys are completely different from other marriage counselors in that they are action based, versus feeling based. Most men really like Steve because of his logical approach.

You don't need your H's participation to counsel with Steve at first. Steve is really good at helping spouses motivate their spouse to get on the phone with him. He will tell you what to say.

outofkilter, I want to prepare you for another eventuality. You say you didn't end the affair for a year after your H found out. It is the lying and the sneaking around that causes the most damage.

When he found out about the affair, he was dealt a mortal wound and was on the floor bleeding out. Instead of getting him medical help, you essentially stood over him and kicked him and teased him for a year.

The cruelty of an ongoing affair is beyond the endurance of most people. In fact, Dr Harley would have told your H to dump you after 6 months of that torture because the damage caused to your H mentally and physically would kill the marriage. Your marriage might be too damaged to come back from this.

My point is that your cruelty may have created a resentment beyond what your H can endure. I know I would not have endured that for one week, and he tolerated your cruel and abusive treatment for a YEAR.

It may well be that he can't overcome the resentment.