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I completely understand, DNM - thank you for all the advice you've given me so far. I wish you and your wife the very best in your recovery.

I just got off the phone with Jennifer and she is awesome! You are right, she gives you a solid plan to work with and it is sooo much different from the other counseling we've had. I feel much more motivated now after having a pretty lousy last few days. Will update the thread when I have more time.


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Hiya Wulffpack

Hope your all pumped up after your session with Jennifer! Whats is she like? I purposely chose Steve as I thought my H would prefer a guy. Although he doesn't seem to like Steve very much!!!!

Just a thought on something you mentioned earlier, about your H bringing up OM. That would have been a perfect time for you to bring up your thoughts and feelings about OM.

This is on my list to comunicate to my H, if you read Jim Flints latest post on my thread. Basically Jim said to me that I need to tell my H that he is the love of my life and I will never forgive OM if I lose him because of the A...because anyone would hate to feel that they are second choice.

Maybe you can bring it up with him again, e.g I was thinking about what you said yesterday and the thought of OM makes my skin crawl as he could cost me you....or however you say it....

Anyway just a thought.....

Please your feeling more motivated, your going to need it!

Hitch


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WPG,

Decisions made based on how we feel in the moment seldom turn out to be good decisions when we look back on them from a point in the future. This goes for the choice to let OM close to you, slam a door or throw away something you have been working on out of devotion and care over a momentary (and that is all it is) breakdown in an otherwise upward trend in your recovery process.

He won't appreciate it any way...Really? You know this how? This isn't just a response to his withdrawal of the moment and his own DJ regarding OM is it?

WPG, I'm sure you have heard recovery called a roller coaster. Up...Down...Up...Down... Long slow climb followed by a sudden drop that takes your breath away and causes you to doubt that it will not result in your demise...

We get so impatient as we make that slow climb upward. We want to be at the top, to reach the goal, to stand on the top of the world. Of course when we get to the top we find that it is really just part of the journey and once there it is inevitable that we will begin that screaming decent downward that causes us to fear that we might be swallowed up by the Earth itself as we hurtle toward the depths.

Emotions change, WPG. In recovery they might change from minute to minute. Try to mot change your life because your feelings have changed and avoid irrevocable actions and words when your mind is being flooded by emotions.

What he said about you not seeing his text message because it wasn't from OM was meant to hurt you. He succeeded. It was a bad choice on his part, I think, but he was probably triggering all over himself by the time you saw it and responded to him.

But just guessing here that the reason the cut was so deep was because there was at least a notion of truth to it and that much of what you felt was not simply anger at him, but anger at yourself.

And then you felt horrible and worthless and believed that you were both and nothing you could ever do would be good enough again...

So why would he even care about the stupid book? Why would it have any meaning to him at all?

I always got the feeling the book was about your own feelings anyway...

Doing things that show care and love don't have to be in response to anything. They can be all on their own. Even stuff he might not fully appreciate can be a labor of love and a demonstration of your thoughtfulness and care replacing the thoughtlessness and careless acts of the affair.

And the long slow climb begins again...

Mark

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JC was great - I actually feel like I have some concrete steps now rather than stumbling around in the dark. She said that I've been in "sort of" a Plan A that for now I am to continue, concentrating on avoiding LBs and protecting him from my behaviors that cause him pain. She guided me on some ways to try and get DH on board with MB and coached me through writing a letter to him, which I left for him last night along with Dr. H's basic concepts DVD at her recommendation (luckily since I'd gotten the HNHN course I already had it!). She spent a lot of time with me and I really appreciated it and am trying to put her coaching to work. I plan on talking to her again.

Originally Posted By: Hitch2007
Basically Jim said to me that I need to tell my H that he is the love of my life and I will never forgive OM if I lose him because of the A...because anyone would hate to feel that they are second choice.

Hitch, that's hitting the nail on the head - DH feels like he's my second choice. I think what makes it even harder is that this wasn't someone I met and had an A with, but someone from my past - so he feels like I've carried a torch for this person my entire life. JC explained it pretty well, that everyone you've had a relationship with has a LB$, and even if it lays dormant for 20 years it's still there, which is one of the reasons I fell into an A, was my failure to recognize that, and to recognize that ANYONE you've had any kind of relationship in the past (dating or whatever) is dangerous because that LB$ is still there.

Originally Posted By: Mark1952
Decisions made based on how we feel in the moment seldom turn out to be good decisions when we look back on them from a point in the future. This goes for the choice to let OM close to you, slam a door or throw away something you have been working on out of devotion and care over a momentary (and that is all it is) breakdown in an otherwise upward trend in your recovery process.


Thanks Mark - you are right, of course. I behaved stupidly and childishly not just yesterday, but in a lot of my last posts on this forum. I recognize that a lot of it was because I was upset over that big purchase he made, yet did I say anything to him about it? Nope. Sat there and said, essentially, "That's nice, dear." I have to learn how to express my hurt in a more positive manner than acting like a big baby. And that's exactly what I did yesterday, slamming doors, crying to mommy, throwing stuff away in a tantrum.

Originally Posted By: Mark1952
He won't appreciate it any way...Really? You know this how? This isn't just a response to his withdrawal of the moment and his own DJ regarding OM is it?...
...So why would he even care about the stupid book? Why would it have any meaning to him at all?

I always got the feeling the book was about your own feelings anyway...

Doing things that show care and love don't have to be in response to anything. They can be all on their own. Even stuff he might not fully appreciate can be a labor of love and a demonstration of your thoughtfulness and care replacing the thoughtlessness and careless acts of the affair.


Yes, the book is probably more about my feelings towards him. I just wanted to do something, I wanted to give him something concrete, you know, instead of sending flowers or big huge gifts. I have a hard time really hitting on the exact ways to fill his needs since he doesn't give me the feedback that I'd love to have. Whether he appreciates it of not, I got it out of the trash, finished the pages that I'd been working on, and gave it to him with a note that said it was a work in progress, and asked him to please give it back when he was done looking at it. Left it by the computer in the garage. It was still sitting there this morning and looked untouched. It's in his court, I can't make him look at it or feel anything. Maybe the book is just all about letting him see my heart and he can take it for what it's worth.

Originally Posted By: Mark1952
Emotions change, WPG. In recovery they might change from minute to minute. Try to mot change your life because your feelings have changed and avoid irrevocable actions and words when your mind is being flooded by emotions.

What he said about you not seeing his text message because it wasn't from OM was meant to hurt you. He succeeded. It was a bad choice on his part, I think, but he was probably triggering all over himself by the time you saw it and responded to him.

But just guessing here that the reason the cut was so deep was because there was at least a notion of truth to it and that much of what you felt was not simply anger at him, but anger at yourself.

And then you felt horrible and worthless and believed that you were both and nothing you could ever do would be good enough again...


Yeah, you got me. When he brings up the OM like that for me it's like he's saying that I think the OM is better than him, that DH is my second choice (as stated above). I start kicking myself for what I did all over again and I just get to feeling so helpless and yet so furious at the same time. I remember how I was like freaking Pavlov's dog with the texts and FB messages from the OM. And it does make me feel like a worthless wh*re again. And then I'm angry, because I want to shake him and say "Can't you see what I am trying to do here???" Yet at the same time knowing how perfectly justified he is in feeling the way he does...after all, I not just betrayed him with an A, I continued to lie about it. Naturally he would wonder if I continue lying about it (or anything else) now.

Of course now when I get a message from DH, it lights me up. Of course with the emails, there's this funny mix of dread and excitement because in the second before I open that email, I don't know where he's at on that roller coaster today. Same thing with going home after work. Excited to see him, terrified of the rejection. It was just my bad luck to get sidetracked at work yesterday and not have my phone with me. Yeah, any time I make a mistake, I feel like I can't do anything right.

JC told me some ways I can respond more effectively when he says things like that. She said I should probably keep a cheat sheet in my purse and look at it in the last moments before getting out of the car and heading into the house.

Climbing again.


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Hi WPG -

I have nothing to add for you except to emphasize how awesome Jennifer is. We counseled with her three years ago, and again for the first half of this year, and I shudder to think of where we'd be without her.


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Nothing much new to report - I've been working on my homework assignments from JC. She wanted me to leave DH a letter and the Basic Concepts DVD - basically the letter was to try and pique his interest in MB enough to where he'd watch the DVD, and hopefully he'd be interested enough to get on board for our call this week (tomorrow night). If he got on board, we were to start working on our top 5 EN's and working on writing "I love it when..." statements (I love it when you hold my hand, etc) that give positive, concrete examples of how we like our needs to be met. If he didn't get on board, I was to continue working on identifying LBs and coming up with alternative behaviors to them.

I'm working on the LBs. The DVD has pretty much sat where I left it. I talked to him a little about my session with JC, but he expressed not much more than polite interest.

We're getting geared up for our trip this weekend for our anniversary. I'm excited about it, and also nervous. I really want it to be a special time. I remember when we went to the mountains for our first anniversary and how he got angry (I think it was mainly at me as I was obsessing on how the fuel level light came on in the truck, and wanted to get gas - there may have been something else that set him off but all I remember was my behavior - I know I was being b*tchy about it) and he drove like a bat out of heck up and down the curvy mtn. roads and scared me until by the time we got back to the cabin I was in tears...then he watched a race on TV. The bad times scare me. The whole weekend wasn't like that - we had a lot of fun together (I've got this funny picture of him standing under a boulder looking like he's holding it up with both hands, it's too cute). As much as I try to not remember the bad memories, they are still there. Maybe it's my Taker that wants to call them to my attention from time to time. I don't sit around and dwell on them, but every once in a while when I am upset, something will pop up - that's why I wonder if it's my Taker ("Remember when he did this? What about this?" etc).

We're going someplace different that we've never been together before, no memories. I'm looking for good hiking trails and in particular looking for a trail with a nice romantic spot for a suprise I am planning.

This past weekend was better, things aren't perfect but there are positive signs. I left him my unfinished journal with a note plus the letter JC asked me to write with the DVD on Thursday morning. Thursday afternoon he starts sending me some pretty suggestive text messages (sorry if TMI!!!) and wanting me to come home so maybe something worked...We ended up not going running together Saturday morning but staying in bed and engaging in further exercise of a different nature grin which is much more fun than running anyday...he worked on the house and I painted the rocking chairs on the porch, so we were at least outside and working on the home even if we weren't right side-by-side. Haven't had a lot of UA time otherwise as the kids have been with us the last 2 weekends...most of our time alone is spent watching TV together, and I know that doesn't count, but if I can't encourage him to do anything else, I'll take snuggling on the couch to watch TV. I think it was Saturday I decided to try out a "thoughtful request" and asked him if he would scratch my back...he obliged and when I laid my head back down on his chest he put his arm around me. For a little while I was in heaven.

I'm not going back to the marriage counselor we were seeing. Had my last appointment last Thursday. DH didn't go this time either. Talked to him a little about the session with JC and her advice to Plan A. He didn't really agree or disagree, but said DH was "fence sitting" and it wasn't fair to me, that he got all the benefits of a relationship without putting himself out there at all. He advised me to push back at DH, use a little bit of my temper when he says things to hurt me (like the comment about the OM after I missed his text). I have to say I don't really agree with his advice in the context of MB. Pushing back and using my temper sounds a lot like LB-ing to me and I am committed to avoiding LBs. It sounded completely contrary to JC's counsel on learning to care for DH.

I'm trying now to show him how excited I am about going away together and how much I am looking forward to it (which is the truth!). Tonight is my last night of teaching (hooray!) and I am more than ready to say goodbye to it and the triggers that it causes DH.


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Originally Posted By: wulffpack_girl
As much as I try to not remember the bad memories, they are still there. Maybe it's my Taker that wants to call them to my attention from time to time. I don't sit around and dwell on them, but every once in a while when I am upset, something will pop up - that's why I wonder if it's my Taker ("Remember when he did this? What about this?" etc).


Hey Wullfpack

Good update. I so know what you mean about the bad memories popping up of how the relationship was before the A. I am going through that now with my H. I need to update my post with this as we start to settle into things, and H starts to act normal, triggers happen of how things were before the affair and how unhappy I was. Not sure what the answer is, but I am going to update my post with this. I suppose it is getting the H on board with MB to start to meet our ENs.

Originally Posted By: wulffpack_girl

I left him my unfinished journal with a note plus the letter JC asked me to write with the DVD on Thursday morning. Thursday afternoon he starts sending me some pretty suggestive text messages (sorry if TMI!!!) and wanting me to come home so maybe something worked...We ended up not going running together Saturday morning but staying in bed and engaging in further exercise of a different nature grin


It is so strange how MB advice does work, as soon as I started telling my DH that I loved him and wrote him a letter he started to want some bedroom action too...Obviously has something to do with how much we solely love them.

Originally Posted By: wulffpack_girl

I think it was Saturday I decided to try out a "thoughtful request" and asked him if he would scratch my back...he obliged and when I laid my head back down on his chest he put his arm around me. For a little while I was in heaven.


So pleased for you! I am sure it felt like heaven, just shows how much your H does really care.

Best of luck and enjoy your weekend away, have fun and enjoy, leave your worries at home!!

Hitch


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Originally Posted By: wulffpack_girl
When he brings up the OM like that for me it's like he's saying that I think the OM is better than him, that DH is my second choice (as stated above).


We're over a year into recovery. I still feel like the runner-up, and that she only chose me at the time because of our history together and a life so thoroughly entangled with mine.

I feel that way because of how she acted after D-Day. If after my discovery she had immediately gone to no-contact with him, I don't think I'd feel this way. But she persisted in seeing him nearly every day after D-Day until finally going no-contact a month later, and in that time persuaded me of exactly one thing: he was far more important to her than I was.

How does she repair that? I think just time, meeting needs, and living the Policy of Joint Agreement together are working to blunt that pain. Just typing it out, the file starts playing back in my head and I feel the hurt again... but most of the time, that hurt of feeling second-best isn't at the forefront of my mind. Only when something triggers it -- like reading your sentence above -- do I remember that within a minute or two after the memory plays back, I'm going to start feeling the feelings I felt then all over again.

After a while when our former wayward spouses are doing everything right, we betrayed spouses have to work on managing our memories and stopping triggers from wrecking an otherwise perfect recovery. After a while.


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WPG, I'm just posting, first of all, to let you know that your thread is what compelled me to finally sign up for the boards.

Your perspective is important for me right now. My FWW is working her tail off to make me happy, and the roller coaster just kills her.

When I have a low day, it breaks her. It breaks her because she knows and accepts that she is responsible for my state.

Your view is important for me because her remorse and apologies bounce off me. When she catches me down, and she breaks down, I immediately go into protection mode. Whatever is going on with me, I can deal with it later, after she is OK.

It's hard sometimes, because she is showing me the pain, the regret, the remorse for her actions, but I just am not yet in the state to absorb that yet.

I am in a state where her attempts to meet my needs now deposit in my LB$ in loads.

She has been reading over the boards with me, has read all of my posts, and all the responses. I did this for me, but I am also sticking to PRH and PJA.

No gesture is to small. Keep your chin up, and don't give in.


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Thanks for your replies and support!

Hitch, I read your thread and I know you are struggling right now. I'm sorry the roller coaster is so intense. I think jessi was right-on, thought - maybe your H is coming around and expressing his feelings more honestly - from all the advice I've gotten, it sounds like his Taker coming out. Plan A is very hard - I talked again with JC last night and she got me pumped up for the weekend. Right now it's all about us protecting our H's from our LBs - if they aren't quite on board with MB yet we can't really expect them to understand all the concepts and how they should protect us from their LBs and work to meet our needs.

One of my problems that JC and I talked about last night is I am still not completely O&H with DH. Not about the A, but about my current feelings. I have a tendency to become a "yes woman" - she asked me if I was that way before the A and I laughed and said no - she said that was likely not what DH wanted. That he probably knows that when I agree to whatever that I am not being completely honest about how I am feeling. She coached me on making more "I'd love it if" statements, and how to respond to IB on his part.

She warned me that this weekend was not really going to be a real "vacation" for me as I am going to have to WORK - work to be on guard against LBs. One thing I was worried about was if we get there and he decides he doesn't feel like going hiking or whatever - to come up with alternate suggestions and ask how he'd feel about them. That even if he wants to do nothing, that it's OK for me to say I'd like to go get my nails done or go for a run, making sure to see if he's OK with that (POJA!), that certainly not to spend too much time apart but that things like that are OK because I am not just doing those things for me, I am doing them for him (taking care of my appearance, my body because he benefits from them also).

DNM, your responses have been very helpful for me to see things from DH's perspective. About how important it is to not let him think he's my second choice. I'm not to the point yet where I'm doing everything right - not by a long shot - as I still have to fight my Taker and struggle with not LBing DH - but I agree time - and consistency on the part of the WS - is really the only thing that will work in the end. *I* know he's not my second choice, but *he* doubts that. That is where the promises of MB come into play - my promises to care for him and meet his needs, to protect him from my own LBs, radical honesty, POJA, exclusive need meeting, and so on.

Originally Posted By: HeadHeldHigh
WPG, I'm just posting, first of all, to let you know that your thread is what compelled me to finally sign up for the boards.


I'm glad you decided to post, HeadHeldHigh. These posts have been a wonderful resource and outlet for me. I've learned as much here as through the books, I think mainly because I am learning how to APPLY MB principles.

Originally Posted By: HeadHeldHigh
When I have a low day, it breaks her. It breaks her because she knows and accepts that she is responsible for my state....

It's hard sometimes, because she is showing me the pain, the regret, the remorse for her actions, but I just am not yet in the state to absorb that yet.


I think the key to it is not just the pain, regret, and remorse - it's the ownership of our actions as WS's. My marriage may not make it, and that is because of the choices I made. I understand why I made those choices but that doesn't justify them. JC and I talked more about EP's last night and the importance of being on guard against infidelity in the future - an A is NEVER a right choice and boundaries are critical.

Originally Posted By: HeadHeldHigh
I did this for me, but I am also sticking to PRH and PJA.


I think that is exactly the right attitude. We have to do this first and foremost for ourselves. For me, I have to do it for me because those boundaries are critical. I have to guard them because it makes ME a better person - no, not just a better person, a better wife.

We're headed out of town in a bit. All systems go! I'm glad I had the chance to talk with JC last night. I asked DH if he wanted to talk with her but he said no. I didn't push it. She said in a month, write him another letter, if he still doesn't want to get on board then a month later, write another letter...and so on. Keep up Plan A. Protect him from my LBs. Start a "needs list" for him and work on ways to meet those needs. I asked her how long to keep on Plan A if he still doesn't show interest in MB - she recommended 6 months, and after that I'd have to decide between basically 3 options - 1: Live with it 2: Stay on Plan A indefinitely (which she said would be nearly impossible because eventually he'd drain his account in my LB$) or 3: Plan B. I don't want any of those options at this point, but right now I have to be careful because any MB talk is something he would likely see as a LB - a DJ as he would see me as trying to "educate" him.

Avoid LBs. Meet his needs. Time. Honesty. Patience. I can do that. Maybe God wants me to learn patience, He knows I've never been good at it before! DH's love is worth it to me. He's the man I want to love, and the man I want to love me.

I gotta pack! And pack my "suprises" for the weekend...wish me luck! smile


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Thanks for highlighting that Plan A and Plan B aren't just for couples currently experiencing an affair. They are a general approach for pulling your spouse out of Withdrawal. Nobody can keep up Plan A with a spouse who's in Withdrawal indefinitely. If they remain unresponsive, eventually you have to decide "do I want to keep living this way, giving and getting nothing back?"

Plan A and Plan B offer the best chance to recover your marriage that I've seen! Truth is, when my wife seems to go Taker-ish here and there, a focus on the basics of "Plan A" seem to bring her around to being loving and caring again in short order. And then we're in "Plan Marriage" again, with both of us contributing to each other's happiness. And I think she follows the same type of plan when I'm not happy, too, as I notice she usually tries to take extra-special care of me and deposits lots of Love Units when I'm in a funk. Instead of the old approach of withdrawing and shouting.

Good changes. Time is the magic ingredient for all of these things to work.


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Plan A is hard. JC was right, this is not a vacation for me. Heck, I thought I could avoid the forums for the weekend but as you see here I am!

I know time and a consistent Plan A are the key right now but a bad night has turned into a bad morning. For me, at least. DH is acting like nothing is wrong. We've been having a nice time, I thought...I am trying not to let the fact he turned me down for SF last night hurt my feelings but it's hard. It's OK when *he* initiates, but when I initiate I get turned down flat. Actually, just ignored. Honestly that is how our M was before the A. I went to the bedroom to change last night and came out in something new I'd bought especially for this trip and he wouldn't even look at me. Sat there and looked at the TV. I didn't react, just said I'll be in the bed. He came to bed shortly and laid there like a rock. Didn't reach out or anything.

So all the old feelings come back - he thinks I'm ugly, he's not attracted to me, etc...only now I have what I did during the A to add in there too. No wonder he doesn't want me, I'm a (fill in the blank). After a few minutes of laying in bed, I get up and take a sleep aid and go read till it kicks in. Just told DH "I'm not really all that sleepy." I guess his rejection is one of MY triggers.

I brought the new wedding band I had made for him. Carried it around all day yesterday on our hike, but the time never seemed right. I had it in the bedroom last night too, thought that maybe if he came to bed and things were different than they turned out last night...I want it to be special, don't want to just say "Here." lol Now I know how guys must feel, having a engagement ring for their special gal and trying to find the perfect time to give it to her.

Not giving up, just hurt this morning. I don't think I am doing well at hiding the emotional distance I am feeling right now, that's all. Trying to concentrate on what JC said, that it's OK, it's not always going to be like this, he's still hurting.


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The magic ingredient is *time*.

Keep meeting his needs consistently. Think of your Love Bank deposits as chucking buckets of sand into a lake. You won't see the progress at all for a while. Once you do see improvement, it comes very quickly as you've laid that foundation under the lake's surface.

Love Bank balances work that way. He won't know he's in love with you again until he is.


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I think the lake I'm chucking that sand into is pretty darn deep.

I gave him his new ring last night, or tried to. He wouldn't take it. Wouldn't look at it, wouldn't look at me. Said "we still have issues" and "we can't even get away from it." That he still doubts I have been completely honest with him. And that he still believes he's second choice. That I am only with him now because things didn't work out the way I wanted. I stuck with how I am committed to him, how I want a new marriage with him, the promises of care, honesty, protection, etc...

I sort of knew he wouldn't accept it. Maybe I was expecting a miracle. JC and I had talked about what to do if he wouldn't accept it, that I just say I'd keep it for him until he was ready. I don't know how much longer I can keep doing this, acting like none of this stuff hurts me.

Tomorrow is our anniversary. 13 years. I don't even know whether to say "happy anniversary" to him or not.


FWW

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Hiya Wullf,

I would go ahead and say Happy Anniversary anyway, and buy him a card and leave it out for him. He needs to know it means something to you, if you ignore it he will think you don't care.

Happy anniversary, I hope this is the start of better times.

Hitch


Me WW: 34
BH/WH: 36
Married 3 years
Together 9 years
DDay: 3/10
NC: 7/100
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WP Girl,

I am hoping that your BH comes out of his withdrawal enough to remember why you were both so happy 13 years ago on this anniversary. Maybe you can write a love note to him with at least 13 reasons why he is the man you married and another 13 reasons why he is the one you want to spend the rest of your life with?

Thank you for this thread. We share a lot of actions/reactions in common for me being the BS and you being the WS, which I find to be extremely interesting. Although I think a lot of that comes from you being the spouse that really understands the MB principles and wants to make your marriage the best it can be. Hopefully your husband will come out of his withdrawal and embrace them fully soon so that you can get to a better place. Together.

Meanwhile, stay strong but do take care of yourself. Acting like none of this hurts you takes a toll, as you noted. And builds resentment towards your husband. Take some time out for yourself and focus on your health, body and self worth. I don't know if this will help you, but I had to back off of my "neediness" in order to have my DH come around to wanting to rebuild our marriage. I had to consciously realize that I was undermining our progress by wanting it so badly. I still wanted it badly, I just couldn't act like I wanted it that badly! Does that make sense?


Me - BW 50
WH - 49
DS 21
DD 17
M - 27 years
EA - 9/2009-4/2010 (HS girlfriend/fiancee)
Confrontation Day - 1/15/2010 (D-Day to me was in 9/2009 she contacted him via Classmates. Emails from OS on 1/13/2010 give me evidence of EA)
D-Day of my own EA in 1989 - 1/19/2010
NC Letter via email - 4/8/2010
Broken NC - 10/21/2011
NC Letter via email - 10/24/2011
NC Broken and PA one night stand - 8/24/2012
Sessions with Steve Harley begin 8/31/2012
Handwritten NC Letter confirmed delivery 9/4/2012
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Originally Posted By: planAprincess
I had to back off of my "neediness" in order to have my DH come around to wanting to rebuild our marriage. I had to consciously realize that I was undermining our progress by wanting it so badly. I still wanted it badly, I just couldn't act like I wanted it that badly! Does that make sense?


Perfectly. Power in a reliationship goes to the person who cares less about it. You have to let go of your "need" to be married to this person in order to gain enough power to negotiate fairly with your spouse as an equal. Otherwise you're always the supplicant, and being the supplicant isn't very appealing. Realizing you'd be just fine without your spouse, and that being together is a CHOICE and not a necessity, can help lead to a terrific marriage.

**NOTE: The above isn't necessarily MarriageBuilders advice. I just learned as part of my Plan A that I had to meet her needs because I wanted us to be together, not because I needed her. Getting rid of my neediness was a prerequisite to her contributing 100% back into our relationship and ending her withdrawal symptoms. I think it's a product of the Policy of Joint Agreement, personally, but not necessarily something Dr. Harley teaches.

Last edited by Doormat_No_More; 10/11/10 03:48 PM.

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WPG:

You stated this:
Quote:
Tomorrow is our anniversary. 13 years. I don't even know whether to say "happy anniversary" to him or not.


He may not have any desire whatsoever to "celebrate" the anniversary of your marriage. He may be away for 4 days with you, but he is certainly reacting poorly to you now.

I would recommend this, as I have spat all over my wedding anniversary as well. We don't celebrate that day anymore. Maybe sometime in the future, but not even after 5 years of recovery. It may mean you have to have the convo about celebrating a new "date".

THe ring, and the week together, the same time as your anniversary may just be overwhelming him. He is lost in a swirl of conflicting emotions.

You had built up alot of expectations that this would be 'wonderful" time to reconnect and maybe, be like your original trips or honeymoon.

This pressure was subtly applied to your BH as well.

I would have the discussion about celebrating a "new" date with him. It could be the date of discovery (we celebrate that one) the date of NC, the date you had SF for the first time sfterward, the date he "accepted" you back into the marriage, etc. An appropriate date will reveal itself if you talk about it.

LG

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Originally Posted By: Doormat_No_More
Originally Posted By: planAprincess
I had to back off of my "neediness" in order to have my DH come around to wanting to rebuild our marriage. I had to consciously realize that I was undermining our progress by wanting it so badly. I still wanted it badly, I just couldn't act like I wanted it that badly! Does that make sense?


Perfectly. Power in a reliationship goes to the person who cares less about it. You have to let go of your "need" to be married to this person in order to gain enough power to negotiate fairly with your spouse as an equal. Otherwise you're always the supplicant, and being the supplicant isn't very appealing. Realizing you'd be just fine without your spouse, and that being together is a CHOICE and not a necessity, can help lead to a terrific marriage.


Thanks, planAprincess & DNM...You know, one of my girlfriends sent me a quote a while back that said, "The one who loves the least controls the relationship." Your advice makes a lot of sense. At this point, for my health I have to back down and try to take care of me. I threw up blood on Saturday so I suspect that I may have an ulcer. So have to make a dr's appointment this week to get checked out. I will still do all I can to meet DH's needs and I won't LB him. I need to get my head back in the game here at work and I need to love my girls. I need to be a daughter to my parents, who are dealing with a lot of stress right now that has nothing to do with the state of my marriage. I need to be a friend (to my close girlfriends, of course!). DH didn't marry me because I was a needy, clingy, neurotic mess. Well, maybe a little neurotic. wink

Originally Posted By: lousygolfer
He may not have any desire whatsoever to "celebrate" the anniversary of your marriage. He may be away for 4 days with you, but he is certainly reacting poorly to you now.

I would recommend this, as I have spat all over my wedding anniversary as well. We don't celebrate that day anymore. Maybe sometime in the future, but not even after 5 years of recovery. It may mean you have to have the convo about celebrating a new "date".

THe ring, and the week together, the same time as your anniversary may just be overwhelming him. He is lost in a swirl of conflicting emotions.

You had built up alot of expectations that this would be 'wonderful" time to reconnect and maybe, be like your original trips or honeymoon.

This pressure was subtly applied to your BH as well.


Thank you for this point, LG. I have to say, though, the trip and the timing was DH's suggestion. I probably should have thought ahead that our anniversary would be a tough date and scheduled something different. And even though I'd had the idea about the ring, it was something that JC mentioned for me to do in our first coaching session to do for DH - and I had not mentioned that idea to her. But I can definitely see that I pressured him, not setting out to do it purposely, but pressure nonetheless.

Originally Posted By: lousygolfer
I would have the discussion about celebrating a "new" date with him. It could be the date of discovery (we celebrate that one) the date of NC, the date you had SF for the first time sfterward, the date he "accepted" you back into the marriage, etc. An appropriate date will reveal itself if you talk about it.


That's the rub...we have to have a conversation. That's something we're not really doing these days. Conversation was not high on his list of EN's - it is on mine. Of course O&H is high on his and he pretty much thinks every word out of my mouth is a lie, which probably then influences his lack of desire to sit and talk to me.

I *did* have a nice weekend with him. I told him so last night, and that there was noplace else I would have rather been. I downloaded the pictures off the camera when we got home yesterday. I guess I often think he's enjoying himself more than he actually is...there's a photo of him on one of our hikes - we'd just stopped to eat lunch at a waterfall and I was climbing around taking pictures. I turned back to take his picture and called his name so he'd look at me. The look on his face in that photo, looking back at me, is one of utter hatred and disgust. I made a comment (when we were looking at the pics) that "Wow - you look like you were having fun!" and kind of laughed, and he responded he was just tired. I know, I am assuming, but the look in his eyes in that pic...wow...


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Don't know what to tell you, WPG.

Our anniversary still means something to my FWW. To her, she says "we made it, we are still here."

To me, it was pain. It was a reminder that she broke every promise she made to me in our wedding vows. I told her happy anniversary because it was important to her, but it was one of the worst days I've had so far.

She bought me a card;

"To my husband,

Our relationship may not be the happily-ever-after story we imagined, but it doesn't mean our story doesn't count. I've valued every moment of our time together - the ups and the downs - and I want to tell you that no matter what, I will always love you."

Our anniversary was 9/25 - I got the card yesterday.

It's not easy. It feels like almost every day I have to decide if I'm making the right choice. Yeah, I don't know why I'm even giving her a chance, but I am. And I know she's trying hard, even on the days where it just isn't enough to break my funk.

I am thankful for that.


Keep chuckin' that sand, WPG.


"An expert is a person who has made all the mistakes that can be made in a very narrow field." - Niels Bohr

"Smart people believe weird things because they are skilled at defending beliefs they arrived at for non-smart reasons." - Michael Shermer

"Fair speech may hide a foul heart." - Samwise Gamgee LOTR
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