This is important, and I almost missed it.

Understand this: when you are honest, you have all the control. No one can blindside your H with info years down the road (and believe me, it happens.)

It's all out there, and that should be cleansing for you. But because your H is still punishing you, you still feel the sting of complete confession.

First of all, you, my friend, SHOULD feel the sting of your betrayal. But this is reaching a point of diminishing returns for your M. It should be used as a tool for building a better M. Instead, your H has learned to use your honesty against you. He is at error, here. This will not serve him. The Harleys can help him understand this.

Going forward - embrace the concept of total honesty & openness with your H. And he needs to learn that as well. It is a huge building block in a healthy M.

Hi Marital,

Last person I believe you would want to hear from is me. But anyway, it sounds like you are on the warpath tonight. I do not mean that in anyway insulting - just that I posted earlier today and cannot get out of my head this is not real, and I know that there is a desire for the serious veterans here to want to help no matter what. However, most men would not stay in a M or any relationship for three years competing with an OM and worried about their inadeqaucy. I have always tended to err on the side of caution, but in this case, and especially with her lack of response, I feel all of us have been duped.

Well, just my thoughts, but I hope you are doing as well as can be.

Tom

Tom, you're killin' me. Quit picking on me, you know I don't hate you!

I'm always on the warpath - to stop stupid waywards. Mothers against drunk drivers have their thing. I think we should start Betrayeds Against Waywards and Their Wayward Others, but I can't come up with a tricky tag-line. (BAWTWO, maybe?)

Bottom line on this one: BS and WS need to start communicating in a healthier way, and they need some stellar help. I say the Harleys are up to the challenge.

I'm doing just dandy, thanks for asking. My fil passed last Friday and we had a lot of family stuff this weekend, but I can't leave the board. You never know when someone is going to go online and suggest separation for a M that can be saved.

maritalbliss, I don't think I have ever 'addressed" you before....but I want to say thank you. I have read anough things you have posted to know that like all BS's, you have endured a lot of pain. And as a FWW, it always makes me feel good when a BS has moved forward and does not treat every WS and FWS on here as a surrogate punching bag for their own WS. I can say that because my own DH had trouble for a looong time not wanting to smash the TV every time any idiot foggy wayward wandered onto the screen. I cannot imagine what it must be like to see the person who betrayed you in other people's posts sometimes.

But when people like you and Mel, who have been through the fire and recovered, can see the pain of a BS AND a WS....it makes me feel even more thankful for MB.

Okay, that was a bunch of sap, but my main point was this - the OP is the OP, people. She is not anyone else. She - like me - made a horrific set of choices. She is trying to make amends. She needs help. Enough said. Get mad at me for saying that if you want. I am no longer vulnerable to the old "I will always be trash" routine, so I can take it.

lurioosi, first of all, let me give you a big . I've always read your posts and have admired you for being on the 'other side' for that sad time and for being here now to help other betrayeds and betrayers. I am thankful for you.

We can all get lost. We need to help each other navigate this tricky life.

You, my friend, have been invaluable here. I'm glad you're with us.

Are you living a transparent life ook? Are you? Does your H feel safer now or are you still hiding areas of your life from him?

Please do take Mel' advice and here's some of mine. I'm a former BW whose m did not survive.

I also replayed the mental tapes in my head and came up with my own "ema movie" of what I thought my wh and ow did together. And it wasn't pretty. For about a year I was always wanting to make sure my looks were better than the ow (the competition factor) and felt similar to how he feels now.

That is normal how he is feeling. He doe need help and so do you. I suggest only a mb counselor. Only. Others imho only help couples divorce.

And yes, I have as a result of the horrible mental trauma the ex placed on me a very mild bit of ptsd too. Mine is fine now. It's in my past, but even after a few years feeling great, sometime a tiny trigger will still pop up. Like my dh being three hours late coming home from work. I just talk myself though it and tell myself it was from my past not how my life is now. YOU did inflict unbelievable pain on your h.

An ema and a year of gaslighting is damn painful and you willingly took part in mentally traumatizing him. You should understand that and if you really want to move forward and help him heal you have to commit to being the most transparent, loving understanding fww in the world. I am not excusing his name calling, but it is similar to how a wounded dog placed in a corner reacts when you approach..it comes out biting, growling, and attacking. Why? It is HURT. It is WOUNDED.

thank you so much, lurioosi! The feeling is very mutual.

I'm one too who made it thru the trial by fire and glad I had MB on my side.

I'm a MB recovery but not one who recovered their M. But glad I have had this experience b/c I knew I did all I could, also learned here how to fight for my child, and after five years, ended up meeting the man of my dreams, my REAL soul mate and married him! MB works. It simply does.

This post is taking a LOT of things for granted. For example, how does anyone here know exactly WHAT sexual acts the husband is demanding? Have you ever known a betrayed husband to demand that his WW perform a threesome? Perhaps it can be anal sex (which someone suggested) or something as simple as oral sex, which maybe she refused to do before? We don't know specifics, now do we? There have been wayward wives before that refused to have ANY sex with their husbands but were only too willing to have frequent sex with their scumbag affair partner. Her husband may just be pissed that she wouldn't do things that he had asked before that she was happy to oblige her AP with.

We are so willng to believe a woman that admits that her husband tried everything he could to stop the affair, who admits that she continued her perfidy IN HIS FACE, and I have to wonder why? Just because she says she's sorry? Well, I would agree that someone that would pull threesomes is pretty sorry. I just love people who talk about their morals, or tout their Christianity, when it's convenient for them to do so.

That's why I suggested that she contact the Harley's. Good luck getting this one back on track.

Nothing about this statement helps anyone recover their M.

Yep, we know what 'kind' of sex her H wants. He wants sexual acts she doesn't want to participate in! What did you miss about that??

Sexual acts that are not mutually agreed upon are acts that are not in balance. One participant is submissive, the other controlling the act. When either person does not agree with this structure it is unhealthy for the M, not healthy.

Would it make a difference if it was, say, sex with a threesome is bad, but sex with a cucumber is good? What does the type of sex have to do with it?? Oral, anal, what's the difference?

She should not have to do types of sex she does not want to do. But then why why why did she eagerly do it with the other man???

That sounds pretty creepy to me. If it was so good with the other man why can't she branch out, at least if the offending sex was simple oral sex, and share that kind of sex with her husband. I can see never having anal or threesomes. Oral or light bondage she can share it with her own husband if she had it with her lover.

And why withhold sex from her husband turning him down when she never turned down the lover. The whole thing is bad. And she does not see how she is hurting her husband.

Bubbles, she did it because she was on Fantasy Island. She did it because she wasn't herself. You know what my FWH says when we talk about the sex acts? That it had nothing to do with the sex - it had everything to do with the attention and 'hits' of the OW.

Let's look at this another way: let's say a married couple tries out, oh, anal sex. The wife is okay with it at first, as a fun little kink, but it's kind of painful and not her cup of tea. The H likes it and wants to do it again. Now we have an impasse. What to do?

I would believe that the H in this case would be content to try other things and leave anal sex off the table because he would not want to hurt his W. She should not have to perform this sex act under these circumstances!

In this situation, I don't think it's so much a matter of BH wanting to copy their sex acts as it is a matter of him wanting to reclaim complete ownership of what is 'his'. And let's not forget that it appears that he wants to punish his WW. This is a poor reason to request a certain sex act.

outof kilter is not posting any more. I guess there is something in all this she is not saying. I read the whole thread.
I just cannot believe that the fog makes you do sexual acts you would not do with your H or W. Like threesomes.
By all means, she should not do those with her BH, because it would be like doing the wrong thing over and over again and once was enough.
But how can you be so fogged up as to do that sort of stuff? Plus, it also tells a lot about the OM and the kind of trash he was.
blessing

How did he found out. I'm curious about the detailsof the discovery.

atena, there are women who will sell their children for crack. There are women who will become 'strawberries'. That is a woman who will trade sex for crack - whatever kind the man wants is okay, as long as she gets her drug.

You are speaking from a point of misunderstanding the addictive nature of affairs. Yes, the fog will make a wayward do things that will repulse them later, when they've recovered and have to look back at their actions.

My H is repulsed by his actions, and believe me, they were pretty lame, sex-wise, IMO. Doesn't matter - the recovering wayward is typically stunned at the lowering of their personal standards, whatever those may be. And they may not be yours, or mine, or whoever else has posted pooh-poohing this poster.

I hope out of kilter hasn't stopped reading this site just because some posters don't 'get it' and are judging her based on their own personal moral barometers.

Just was honestly concerned, but just wanting you to know am doing well now. You're H is a fortunate guy, same as my W is a fortunate woman...*s* I am sorry to hear about loss of your fil.

Enough of t/j.

outofkilter, if you are real, and/or still here, what Marital said is so true - communication. And, this goes for any other newbie looking in here. I think the word really is compromise. Yep even in terms of sex. The best way I can describe is when my W and I were younger we loved to go to movies - yea, before VHS and DVD's. She liked romantic comedies (chick flicks), I endured them, and I liked Eastwood, adventure, and sci fi. Well, I can imagine what would have happened if either one of us insisted on being one-sided. We traded off - compromised. She hated war films, and I know damned well that they made her uncomfortable. After our first couple of years of marriage I actually began to notice things that made her uncomfortable and did not try to cajoal, coax, or demand that she endure them. I am by no means perfect, but it doesn't take a rocket scientist to realize things that make your partner uncomfortable. And, that is the secret. It takes communication and compromise. Each person has to feel comfortable with their partner, and assured that their partner is concerned with making him/her feel comfortable, for sex, conversation, recreational companionship, or anything else to work.

So, if you are serious, you need to get going on contacting the Drs. Harley to get you two started in Real couseling.

Take care,

Tom

We're in agreement! Thanks, Tom, for your post to this poster.

Special thanks for your thoughts for my fil. He rests in peace.

If I were out of kilter, I don't know if I would ever come back to this thread. She wants to help her BH recover, she seems to feel genuine remorse about what she did, she does not want to relive whatever degrading acts she lowered herself to three years ago.

And when she posts this, strangers who will not do the work to recover from their own demons spring from the woodwork to vicariously punish their WS's through her.

Sad. I wouldn't come back either.

Adultery is pure evil...everything about it. The spring of 2006 was the worst version of myself I have ever lived, and every choice I made was inexcusable. The fact that we have recovered doesn't really say much about me except that I finally faced how crappy I had become. The REAL hero of my story is the loving, forgiving, patient, string, 100% MAN man who stayed with me.

There's my girl! outofkilter, listen to lurioosi - you can do this!