This is just never ending, snipped on H email found out he has booked ski trip away with a group of people for march time his brother is going without his girlfriend and there is other girls in the group.

Just another thing. I hate him.

I want to give up I am in tears now, suppose to meeting my gfs and I want to hide.

Something I have never shared as it did not seem appropriate, but my Dad has lymphocytic cancer, and has spent most of this year in hospital either having chemo or recovering from major infection such as pneumonia, he is very ill. I am dealing with this, with zero support from my H, in fact just constant punishment to make things even worse. I am sorry to say but I hate him right now.

Hi Hitch,

Just looked in here and signed on to post some encouragement to you based on your 'feeling like a failure' comment, and then I saw your latest post. For the moment let's disregard that.

By the way, if you guys do have a sunny warm weekend now this weekend, by all means get away, enjoy, ride your bikes, etc. I ride just about every day - sometimes for errands and sometimes just for exercise. The weather here in the Chicago area is supposed to be in the 80's this weekend. Char has a urinary tract infection - she is on antibiotics and is doing okay - but they don't want her to leave the facility to visit here until she is better, and I can understand that. So, am busying myself with stuff aruond here and preparing to bring some of the flowering plants like geraniums and salvia to bring indoors when the weather is supposed to really dip next week. Also, still taking out the last of the tomatoe plants. Talk about not knowing how to proceed, I have no idea about wintering geraniums, but will do some reading over the next several days.

The first thing I would like to say is that you are by no means a failure. No way, no how! You seem a bright, loving young woman who has dedicated herself, the best way she knows how despite past mistakes, to wanting to save your M and rebuild your life with the guy you selected. I by no means wanted to 'terrify' you. Just wanted to say that this effort is going to be tougher than many others due to my belief that he does seem to react immaturely at times. I was not the most mature, unselfish, and loving person in the world when I was in my thirties. I learned how to change tho, and to smoothe my rough edges because my wife kept hammering home the facts that she loved me, wanted us to grow together and she simply could read me like an easily-read book. Neither of us then knew anything about a Plan A or a Plan B. Thoese concepts most likely did not even exist. We just sort of muddled thru, but with her help we did it.

I know it is easy to do, but please do not compare yourelf with other wives who seem to have a good or even ideal M. Your M is defined only by the standards each of you have set for your M and each other. Your guys are unique, and please do not feel you will be or should be judged socially by others' standards. You do not know what goes on beyond any couples' closed doors! So, don't feel like it will be hell to get together with friends, because right now I feel you need your friends. Here in the US, there is a game called football. On any given Sunday, a running back can completely run over a defensive linebacker. The linebacker may have had the wrong angle for the tackle, missed the tackle completely, or may have been faked out by the running back. Do you think for a moment that this linebacker lowers his head and goes to the sidelines thinking that he is inferior or that another linbacker could have made the stop? No. He stays on the field, gets set for the next play, challenges the running back to come at him again, and the next time he lowers the boom and nails him.

This is my long-winded way of trying to tell you that both of you seem to be very adept at pushing each other's buttons and that you guys do really need some non-intermittant counseling. It would be great if Both of you could invest Dr. Harley into your situation again. Yea, the first reaction I might have given, as the case with your H, is BS. But, with his one or two sessions that is not really a good sample. If not Harley, then someone in your area who is pro-marriage.

I also think you have to learn to insulate yourself from becoming so affected by his reactions. Once he learns that he cannot push your buttons and get his desired reaction he will back off. That part is up to you; the backing off part is up to him. This is why I think you both need an independent pro-marriage counsleor - someone who can get thru to each of you.

Well, all this said Hitch, please you two have a good weekend and enjoy Chicago-type October weather in the UK.

You are a Sweeti,

Tom

Hello Hitch,

Come here and sit down for a minute.

Breathe.

You remember me telling you HOW to handle him going out without you?

I told you to invite your H and regardless of whether he goes, you go.

With your GIRLFRIEND, No MEN, No DRINKING, and no BARS with a cellphone turned on at all times and letting him know to give you a call if he wants to join you.

Its a carrot and a stick, Hitch.

He is wanting to SHOW you how much he is hurting by hurting you back.

The trick is to heal his pain and attract him back to the M but NOT be a target while he is flailing around much like a dog that is caught in a trap it can't escape and biting everything around it.

YOU DO NOT SIT HOME IN A CORNER TAKING HIS PUNISHMENT.

Carrot and Stick.

If he is going on a ski trip, so are you.

Tell him that you heard he was planning a ski trip and ask him the dates and when will we be making reservations.

IF he says he is not letting you go you let him know that YES you are going on a ski trip those dates and and you want it to be with him.

Then you follow through on it.

If he refuses to allow you to go you let him see you looking at brochures and you also make plans to go for those dates, with a girlfriend.

YOU DO NOT ACCEPT PUNISHMENT FOR SOMETHING YOU ARE NO LONGER DOING!!!

You are his wife not his whipping post.

Your place is at HIS side, not at home being punished.

He goes ANYWHERE you go with him or if he refuses YOU go out too WITH your boundaries firmly in place, a smile and looking like a million bucks with a girlfriend.

Thats your answer to these tantrums.

A confident, beautiful woman looking forward to a great life with the H she loves...

But...

That is NOT going to sit in the corner the rest of her life being punished.

Hitch, ALL of us that made it felt like this at one time.

Remember it's a carrot AND a stick.

Give your girlfriends a call, you've got some plans to make!

God bless.

Jim

ITA with Jim. Live your life and have a smile on your face as much as possible regaurdless of what he does.

I have thought about this. Lots. How can I have a marriage and a family with a man that behaves like an immature child. I can't talk to him, I can't reason with him, its like banging my head against a brick wall. He treats me like a mother and takes no responsibility for anything including this marriage wants me to feel bad all the time and uses my affair to justify his IB. He is cruel. What has he done to make me happy? Nothing.

I can do all he things you suggest, the carrot and stick, the lookng a million dollars ect...but what difference is that going to make to my husband and who he is. Yes he might want me a bit more, while it suits him, and then what?

I feel like the penny has just dropped and I am seeing my H for what he is, and I don't like it. He came home last night, drunk (drink driving again), I am sorry to say I can;t even stand the sight of him. I asked him about the ski trip and he said he was going alone, I said thats a slap in the face and then he said well it was a slap in the face when you went off and slept with another man. I kept quiet. Whats the point, and went to bed.

I deserve more. I am kind, caring, loving, attractive, good career, marvellous family, lovely friends and I deserve more. I made one bad decision, one terrible decision, which will be my only regret in life. Appart from that bad decision, I have been a consistently good person ALL my life.

You messed around on your husband as if you were not married, just dating. And he is doing the same to you. Seems like at this time you have a sort of "dating relationship" even though you are married.

If you were just dating this man, and he has this immature behavior, would you marry him or break up with him?

Zactly..

How did you ever marry him if he treated you like this before marriage Hitch? It doesn't matter though, because he has no interest now in making a change or being a grown up.

This goes back and forth from " He loves me I am being silly" to "He has allways treated me bad" What is the truth? Let me tell you that my late wife thought being a decent Mom and cooking, cleaning could make it ok that she lied and had little deceptions and occasional flings when she could get away. I don't think it was a good trade. If it wasn't for the children I would have been long gone again but thier emotional stability was more important than mine, and there was allways hope she would pull it together before they grew up and I could address it.

I am assuming thier are other reasons you don't wanna quit him like embarrasment, financial distress, or your pride in that you can't change him. Maybe you thought you could do it alone with understanding and giving yourself until he saw it. Well now you know and understand that you need boundaries and he will take whatever he can get from you selfishly.

Thats why plan B is a good idea IMO. Again I don't care who he thinks he is that he can treat a woman like this or what his potential is, You must state what you require from him and stay away from him unless he stops it and acts like a responsible adult who values you and wants to love you. IMO that is the minimum to even talk to him and he has a lot to make up for. He is acting like a child.

You give him a chance to act like a grown up or he has to go. You don't have children with him and you are lucky, not cursed because of it. Get away from Him after giving him a chance to really change and decide the damage he does to you outwieghs whatever potential you see in him or your fear of loss and hurt pride.

Plan B is the decent choice you will give him and we are here to help you through it. Your not his Mommy but he is treating you like for some reason you must take the pain for his immaturity. You will not be failing if you stand up for yourself while you demand better, you will if you don't. Just remain firm and have confidance in the plan Hitch.

It sounds to me a lot like my late wife. She allways preferred to be a spoiled brat and had dangerous tendacies that got out of hand if she didn't watch them. Guess what? I had to watch for them too and she would not see it any other way buy her own unless she suffered the consequences for a long long time. Even then, as soon as she thought she was safe, she would act like a child again. Do you want to live a life with someone like that?

Give him a chance to show real humility AND study himself and why he is like this, indentify his own problem and study his triggers. He must learn to hate what he is doing to you and as long as he keeps making excuses and cake-eating while living in denial he will remain a child. He needs help and you are enabling him by allowing this behavior towards you.

He is good looking right. A little charismatic? Will he find someone else and stay in denial instead of doing what he must do to love you? Probably. read this link..

http://www.sharischreiber.com/BPDlove.html ..and study what she says about BPD. There is a resource center there also


This man does not care to have a relationship with you, he is living in some kind of fantasyland. He is not marriage material at this point. Reminds me of that saying. "Men marry a woman thing she will never change, and Women marry a man thinking he will" If you want to wake him up and change him its time to do the work but you have it cut out for you. Yes you do deserve better but you've got to make it better.

Sorry your going through this but you will come out at the end Hitch a stronger and more loving woman than you allready are.

Sorry to hear about your fathers sickness. It sounds like he is an action guy but has the right actions. My father in law from my first marriage was 74 years old in 1976, yes 76, lol I am old...When a drunk that had hooked up with one of his troubled daughters came to his house. FIL had cancer of the pancreuos and must have weighed 100 lbs then but it didn't stop him from knocking the false teeth out of drunk boys 30 year old mouth when he wouldn't leave his porch.

Point in the story is that men would rather go down swinging if they have to. If your Dad is right then he is right. It does not matter that your H feels picked on or that his Dad was a bad example. His father in heaven is his example. He needs to turn to him for the standards he must live by. A standard is a battle flag held up in battle and we follow it. What standard we follow from God, who is a God of War by the way, is because he first loved us.

Help your Dad by doing something about this..He raised a wonderful daughter. Listen to him.

My H never treated me cruelly before we were married, such as staying out all night and cheating. I always thought something was not 'quite right' if I am honest, but I just put it down to my 'commitment phobia' so I just buried it and thought I will have a good life with this man. There was a lack of intimacy, my H does not like to show affection, he only told me he loved me maybe a few times, he is quite critical, a bit of a perfectionist, there was no room for error. He had more than one side, never knew what was going to come out. I think the worst thing that unnerved me was his irrational outbursts and anger. For example, I remember just before the A I had organised a birthday lunch for him, invited a few of his friends along, and he went mad at me, saying that I hadn't invited many of his friends along and that it was mainly mine. He went mad, tears and everything shouting at me, I couldn't really believe it. Then I actually started phoning a few of his other friends just before to try and make up for it. We had the lunch and then he turned into Mr Entertainer for his friends and I was left thinking who was that person this morning? I put on a brave face but was crying inside. That was the bit that I suppose caused the most concern. I felt like I had to constantly prove to him how much I loved him, nothing was ever good enough, maybe he was insecure becuase of how or r'shp started out. That was the wearing part.



Yes he loves me, I love him but at what cost? I want to look forward not back and pull the relationship to pieces, I believe in MB principles, but my H only looks back and does not like what he sees. He feels he did everything. I try to explain to him yes we had the big house, you bought me the expensive enagagement ring, the designer shoes, but don't you realise I wanted you and you to care for me? I tried to make him understand this, that it was the little things, darling you look tired do you want a cup of tea, darling I was going to take a day off work so we could spend the day together. I wanted HIM. I think he was more wrapped in what we HAD. I would have rather we had less but more time together.





There are many reasons I didn't quit, I knew deep down I have never loved anyone like him, that I did a terrible thing and I didn't want to let it ruin the rest of my life, because I wanted his children, because there were times in the relationship when he pushed me for commitment such as moving in together.



Yes he is acting like a child, maybe the stress of whats hapening has made him like this. The tantrums, the tears the anger were always there before. I alwasy use to be a little freaked out.



He is a very handsome guy, he has no problem meeting woman, and I suppose they are attracted initially, to the looks the car, the clothes. Yes very superficial I know. When I met him, it was 6 months after I came out of a relationship, and I thought we has perfect for some dating fun, I thought this guy just wants to play the field, he has mutltiple girlfriends, so I thought I would go on a few dates and have some fun. Quite quickly he changed and went all 'serious' on me, wasn't sure how to take it, certainly wasn't ready however I fell for him and loved being with him. I wanted to take things slowly after coming out of a LT r'ship and I think this is one of his 'issues' now that he always had to pursue in the beginning. That I was 'commitment phobic' and that having the A proved it.
Sometimes I feel like it was my fault and I was major mess up.

Anyway, things aren't good again right now. I will update more on this later.

As always, guys, not sure what I would do without this place, go insane. Sometimes I feel rubbish as I am the one that cheated yet I am the one, moaning about him. Sorry for this. I have taken responsibility. Tjere is lots and more that I did wrong.

Yes most definetly, he will have a new GF in tow within 2 weeks. My bets on it. She will be local, a bar maid most probably and she will be paraded all over town so I get to here about it.

Hi Hitch,

Great that you could possibly look at MJ's thread.

I wish you had had a better weekend with your H.

My team, the Packers, lost today but am sure no one in the UK or around the rest of the world really gives a damn..*s*

Anyway, I do not have any wise or profound words. That needs to be left to the veterans. The only thing I can do is say some prayers for you and your H. Okay.

Tom

Hi again Hitch, just had to tell you this, am cooking dinner now and my son and I are watching 'Ghost Writer' - came out earlier this year and a mystery about a fictional UK PM. I took my wife to see it last Feb., and unfortunately I didn't see the ending at that time because she wanted more soda. Anyway, it's a fairly good film. I do like Brosnan tho.

You're going to have as many prayers your way tonight, at least before I fall asleep, so brace up.

Take care,


Tom

Read that link Hitch, it will explain a lot.

Tell me when you read it. K?

Hitch, please consider this thought:

The opposite of love is not hate. It is indifference.

Indifference to people is our "default" setting.

If you love someone who wounds you over and over, the pendulum will trend back to that default setting. The pendulum swings widely and erratically from Love to Hate but in time checks are built into the system so the swing radius becomes smaller and thus more tolerable on a daily basis.

As time passes, the checks on the swing become narrower and narrower as the pain and hurt grow more and more intolerable so that the range of emotion the pendulum is allowed to swing through inexorably leads to the default setting of indifference. The pendulum has stopped swinging.

An object in motion will stay in motion unless an external force intervenes. An object at rest will stay at rest unless an external force intervenes..

Your M is an object in motion. There is momentum. It is easier to move an object already in motion than an object at rest.

My pendulum has stopped swinging. The checks I put in place over 35 years to constrain its range of movement are so solid I can't will or decide them away.

Whatever you do, don't stop moving.

Hitch,

I don't have much time, need to go to work, just a quick word. About that link Constant gave you. These disorders can be diagnosed based ONLY on serious psychological testing, observing and screening and it cannot be done just like that. I would be very careful in giving your H a diagnosis, let it be borderline or whatever, or even trying to make sense why he is behaving like he has been for a good while now. Because this will just drive you crazy and the your focus point will shift to the thing that is not your doing at all. He is a grown man, he behaves like he does partly because you had an A on him, yes, but also because he can, and as he sees it every day that he actually CAN do what he does, he continues to do so. He sees NO consequenses.
Hitch, you need a plan, a good plan how to remove yourself from this madness, from the situation he is actively involved with other women, there is NO justification for him to have affairs because you have had it, too. He treats you like crap, and you let him, I'm sorry to say that. If you want to be on the safe side, write a letter to Harleys, to MB radio show - jharley@marriagebuilders.com - or contact Steve. If you want to listen to earlier shows, then here: http://richwith.com/mb/radio/

Niitse, I am not stating or giving a diagnosis based on 2nd hand knowledge and heresay. I have other reasons besides Dr. Sciebers work and observations.

Thanks for making it clear to Hitch that my crystal ball was an illusion at best. Lol

Constant

On way to work so can't say much but I have gone down this road once before. There is a web site called it's all about him by lisa e Scott. It was when I was trying to understand his behaviour, there is a page called narc speak and there were so many things he had said, then I ruled it out because narcisstics were cheaters and that was me!

I have had a look at the BPD link and have to say there are a lot of similiarities. I will come back later and list them. I know you have to be careful and only a professional can explain but it does make me understand certain behaviours. It freaks me out a bit, weird things like projection, lack of responsibility, critical, 'kitchen sinking' constant illnesses, concerns about image and what other people think, quick changes in personality, lack of empathy, never in the wrong and weird rship with his mother. Ha! I don't know, I don't want to use it as a scapegoat.

I went into withdrawal over the weekend. I suppose after finding out he booked the ski trip I just realized that I am banging my head against a brick wall, and getting know where fast. He didn�t even run it past me, and it was something I introduced to him when I met him as something we did �together�, he knows I love skiing.

I went over to my mothers, as I just wanted to get out of the house (husband was playing golf), I broke down when I got to my mothers, spent about an hour sobbing in her kitchen. Worn out, getting knowhere, tired of being unhappy, and not having a life basically being available for him when he wants to spend time with me. My mother listened, I think she gets upset, trying to hold her tongue, does not like the way he is treating me, anyway I took my mind off things and went shopping.

I stayed at my mums and had some dinner and go home for about 6pm. At 8pm, H sends a text saying he will be home at 9pm. I don�t respond. He walks through the door at 930pm, and I act friendly and smile, I don�t want to get in another row, but I have gone into withdrawal and put an act as I am too tired for anymore confrontations. He persists and asks me whats wrong, in the end I just say calmly, I am upset that you have booked a ski trip alone. He responds by getting angry and said � I was upset you went off to India and f**ked another man�! I didn�t respond sat in silence and went to bed 15 mins later, said goodnight he ignored me.

Sunday morning, which was suppose to be our day out I had a lay in. I got up and he was mowing the lawn. Same old cycle, as soon as he knows he has done something to upset me he tries to make it up by being �nice�, why can�t he be like this all the time not just when he has done something to upset me� I carry about my business being friendly. He keeps chatting to me saying what he is going to do on the house, and being ok. Then he said, lets go to lunch. I just said calmly, what is the point H? Where are we going? Are you married or single? Do you need some time to decide what you want, if so then why don�t you move to your mothers for awhile?

That resulted in a 30 min discussion whilst we were both sat on the stairs. He said that he felt years of resentment had built up, that he felt he had forced me into marrying him, that I always had doubted the relationship, that I left him in the beginning, that too much �stuff� had happened and that he feels that one minute he can get past it, then the next minute he remembers another thing that he finds it difficult to deal with, that I never made enough effort with his family and I never appreciated what he did for me and that how could he face my mother again and he just bought stuff up from the past that I thought we had already dealt with. He then went onto say, that he feels as though he was scared to go out into the �big wide world� and that he loved this house and didn�t want to leave. Then how selfish I had been, how I had ruined his life, how he was heartbroken about what I did to him, that him seeing OW was him just trying to build his broken heart back together again�.

So my final speech went something like this�I said how sorry I was for hurting him with the A, and that I regret how much I hurt him, that I have learnt many things and believe that we could in 10 years grow together and look back at this as a period of growth. How I had learnt many things about what makes a good relationship and marriage, how much I loved him and he just railroaded everything I said. If I am honest I just felt like everything I was saying was a losing battle. Falling on deaf ears.

Then he sat on his bed for the next few hours sulking, told me he wanted space, whilst I continued to clean the house. I didn�t fuss him I just left him to it. Then something just went inside me and thought I can�t continue like this any longer I need him out. I can�t be used as a punchbag anymore.

I went into his bedroom and said DH, what are we going to do, we can�t live like this anymore, we are both going to be a year older in 4 weeks time. I said I think we need a little space, can you not go to our mothers for a couple of nights so we can sort ourselves out? To be honest I just wanted him out. He then said very dramatically, I am moving out, I just said OK. Then 10 mins later he went into a rage saying I don�t know why I have to leave you�re the one that messed up.

I left the house went out for a bike ride, by the time I got home he had gone and did not come home last night. He has not taken any stuff.

Not sure what happens next. I feel rubbish about myself, feel like a failure but I just don�t want him near me right now.

I feel there are lots of people on here that make out that I should be in Plan A for a long time and that I am not doing enough of the �right things�, I just feel I am on a road to knowwhere.