I am new to this, as my D Day was only 7 weeks ago, but my situation is similar to yours. Like you, within an hour of discovery, my WH came out of his fog and initiated NC. Unlike you, the OW only tried to contact him twice after that and finally gave up because my H immediately forwarded her email and voice message to me and I replied, also forwarding it to OWH.

What is helping me as a BW is complete honesty and disclosure from my WH. That means answering all questions your wife asks of you. At first my WH withheld certain things because he felt it would hurt me more, but for me, NOT knowing the details hurt me the worst. You need to tell your BW everything she wants to know. It's not up to you to decide what will hurt her - it all hurts - but she may need the details to help her heal.

We are reading the books and Basic Concepts together and doing the questionaires, and I feel that we are begining to connect in ways that we haven't for a long time.

It sounds like you are truly remorseful for what you did, and your wife is coming back, so I hope with time things will get better for both of you. Just be there for her and never stop telling her how sorry you are, and how much you truly love her.

Good luck to both of you.

I am not used to your name yet, tst.

I agree that there is a fine line. Just as the apology portion would be unbelieveable if it was gushing on and on, nothing should be over the top...simple and to the point...I agree. However, if the letter can be crafted to include this without making the OW into a bunny boiler I think it should be included. If NC is maintained there will never be another chance to say such a thing that both BSs may be struggling with. If there is a way to reduce some of the salt intake on the infidelity diet I am all for it...in a healthy way of course.

OW,

The AFFAIR I had with you was thoughtless and cruel. It hurt MY WIFE, AS WELL AS MY CHILDREN, who did not deserve to be treated that way. I am committed to my marriage and determined to make up for all the hurt I've caused my family. I HAVE ALREADY BEGUN to work hard to be the best husband that she deserves, AND TO TRY TO MAKE THIS UP TO MY FAMILY WHO ARE DEVASTATED BY OUR THOUGHTLESS AFFAIR.

Because of the terrible offense to my WIFE and the damage I have done to our marriage, I am permanently ending all contact with you. Please respect my wish to regain my integrity, and to heal my family. DO NOT EVER contact me in any way at any time. THE FUTURE OF MY FAMILY DOES NOT INCLUDE YOU, AND THIS MEANS NO CONTACT OF ANY KIND FOR THE REST OF OUR LIVES.

My spouse has all the details of our relationship and she will also be told of any attempts at contact. I AM ASHAMED OF MY BEHAVIOR WITH YOU. I CANNOT BELIEVE I TURNED MY EYES AWAY FROM MY LOVE FOR MY WIFE, FOR EVEN A MOMENT, AND I PLAN TO SPEND THE REST OF MY LIFE SHOWING HER THE MAN I KNOW SHE DESERVES.



WH

IMHO, write a separate letter of apology to the OWH. He deserves that.

Dear OWH,

It is with shame and remorse that I write this most sincere letter of apology to you. I cannot offer any excuse or reason for my affair with your wife. At the time, I was focused only on myself, and whenever this is the case it comes only at some cost to others. My choice to have an affair was a despicable act. I know the cost in pain that I inflicted on you and your family - I know because I also inflicted this pain upon my own family as well. There are simply no words for what I have done, and no words for the apology I need to convey to you and your family.

My apology is offered to you, yet I know that you do not have to accept it. I understand this, and respect your choice and right in the matter. Were it me in your shoes, I might not consider forgiveness for a long time, if ever, for that matter.

Please know that I have written a letter of No Contact to your wife, and that I will not ever, in any way, have any contact or even attempt any contact with your wife for the rest of my life. If any attempt is made on her part to contact me, my wife will let you know.


Again, I apologize. I can only hope that someday you and your family will heal from the damage my behavior has created.

Sincerely,

EC




Don't make any excuses, understand his pain, and then tell him that you won't ever interfere again. Do not tell him that you are trying to heal your marriage in the apology letter. This letter is about how stupid YOU were, and how much you owe him an apology and could not ever begin to do that.

You can't do this as an "aside" in a no contact letter. It changes the meaning of the NC letter, and removes the sincerity and depth of your apology. Result? OW will still try to contact you, and OWH will get angry about the insincere apology.

SB

very nice sb

TST, SB, BR and others,

I sent my first draft of the NC letter to my BW.

Since I am overseas and my BW is on her way here in 2 days, the letter needed to be sent via electronic means for faster timing.
My BW recrafted the letter. She didn't know what STS and SB were writing about in these posts and on her own developed a hybrid. But, surprisingly, the final product was nearly what was suggested by SB (but done in one communication).

I cannot undo what is done. What is done is that I sent an email to OWH with a cc: to my BW. There are two letters in the email. One to OWH and another to OW. Unbeknown to me, my BW had some contact with OWH after D-Day (remember, OWH disclosed the affair to my BW via email) perhaps even by phone. Similar to the advice given to me here, my BW felt that OWH needed an apology.

This approach of involving the OWH in the NC letter isn't in keeping with MB principles or the advice given to me here. Please keep in mind that I am aware of the MB approach but my BW not too much. However, she called me just to discuss this issue and we had a much longer conversation, only the second conversation on the phone since D-Day, and I am extremely happy that something negative like the recent contact of the OW can generate a stimulating conversation with my BW. Although the NC letter is a positive thing overall, having to do it reminds my BW of the A and of recent contact by OW. BW is coming back here to reconcile and reading SAA and HNHN is her top priority before she sees me.

So, in my new O&H way of thinking, I am writing to give each of you an update. You take the time to reply to my posts and I am grateful for the advice. I hope you understand where I am with my BW and doing it her way was the best way.

EC

Here's what was sent.


OWH,

I would like to apologize to you for the pain I have caused you and your children. My affair with OW was stupid and cruel and for my part stemmed from my own insecurities and misguided emotional needs. I am fully committed to reconciling with my wife and family (yes, my children are 16 and 18 and know everything). I pray the same for you. I had asked OW to stop contacting me and have closed email accounts and my facebook page. I can not, however, close my work email account and she has again tried to contact me.

I would appreciate it if you would share the following with her and help to ensure that she does not attempt to contact me again.

Again, I am truly sorry for the pain I have caused you, your family and mine.

WH


OW,

The relationship I had with you was thoughtless and cruel. It hurt many people, particularly my wife, who did not deserve to be treated that way. I realize now that I did not even love you but my feelings were a response to the giddiness of the emotional attention and needs that I wrongly felt were missing in my life. I am committed to my marriage and determined to make up for all the hurt I've caused my family. I am going to work hard to be the best husband that BW deserves.

Please respect my wish to permanently end all contact with you. No more emails, phone calls, etc. I never want to hear from you again. I just want to regain my integrity and heal my family.

BW has all the details of our relationship and she will also be told of any and all future attempts at contact.

WH

PUP, thanks for sharing what you have been through and what has worked for you. Similar to what your WH realized, my epiphany that the A was over was in the very first moments. The look in my BWs eyes; it was as if I could see to her soul, a soul that was on fire. Hard to descibe but I knew right then what I had done, what an idiot I had been and how forever things would be different.

Thankfully, she is coming back and we are discussing building a new marriage, better than before and one that has built-in safeguards. The recovery will take some time and we know this. We are digging in for the long haul.

Good luck to the both of you,

EC

Yes, beeing truly remorseful is the key. Even if you have the slightest doubts such as: well, I had no choice but have the affair....well, OW was nice and a good person....well, I was so unahppy in the M that I could not help but looking for comfort elsewhere.
If you are telling yourself any of the above or finding any excuse as to why you were entitled to an A, then your wife is risking big taking you back.
I know because I took back my WH after his first A and all he was able to say was that he was coming back because of our son and that OW helped him at a very difficult time in his life and that she was a nice person and that he really had something good going with her and it was hard to give her up.
He never once said I am sorry for having hurt you. Never. He had to be promped to do that and he finally wrote me a paragraph saying he was sorry. But it was not heartfelt.
Make sure you are truly repentant.
Blessing

EC,

Your letters are from your heart, that is what matters. No letter ever comes out perfectly written, and the truth is that the OWH will react with mixed emotions when he gets the apology anyway. He will be angry for a very long time, and no measure of apology will repair this. At some point he will say, "At least the OM had the stones to offer an apology." It will be the LEAST, and it is SOMETHING in the empty can that he looks into every morning. Right now it will stir anger. Later on, he will understand that the apology is "there", on the table, and that is more than many men in his situation are even offered, let alone ever actually see in writing.

You have done well.

Your wife will come to appreciate your steps, although she cannot focus on them right now.

Her wounds are raw. In the coming months, she will be able to look back and see that you immediately took these steps in order to begin the healing process. It does make a difference.


When she gets home:

1. Answer all of her questions - openly, honestly, and gently. Be careful with your words about the other woman. When your wife asks you "Did you love her?", you now seem to understand the truth of your answer

-you thought you did, but can see now that you did NOT

So tell her this.

When your wife asks, "Do you think OW is prettier/thinner/smarter, better/nicer/funnier, sweeter/more desireable/sexier" or WHATEVER comparison she asks you - and she WILL

your answers are critical. You need to fully understand that you were stupid, and your thinking was erratic. You were chasing a FANTASY - and you FANTASIZED that the OW was better in many ways than anyone in the world. And you came to realize that the fantasy was exactly that

a fantasy

and the OW is really nothing more than ordinary.

The truth being, your wife has been there all along for you. Your wife has been the woman for you, the best choice all along, and you turned your eyes and heart away, because you failed to meet her needs, and failed to spend your energy working on loving your wife. That caused you to fantasize....and lose sight of the prize right there.


So comparisons are not the issue - your wife may have her strengths and weaknesses, but the affair

was NOT about the other woman.

It was about


YOU

and you alone.


So when your wife asks about comparisons, tell her that your mind made false comparisons. And that you allowed it.

You fantasized about an ordinary woman.

The OW does wake up with stinky breath, a need to wash her hair, smelly pits, and her feet stink when she wears shoes that are made of plastic. Her clothes get wrinkly and she hates to iron, her kids yell and she yells back. She doesn't like to wash the dishes, and lets them sit in the sink, and makes the man take out the trash. She hates parallel parking, dents the car door next to her in parking lots because she lets her door swing out too far, she cheats on her husband, and she lies about her political views in order to keep the peace and thinks it makes her look smarter. She texts while she drives.


(I made that all up, but you have to understand that OW is not perfect. She does about half of this stuff...)



It doesn't even matter, really. The affair

is about YOU.

Because you chose it. You strayed.

And you have to focus on how to set the boundaries in your own life so that you learn how never to do it again, and protect your wife and marriage.

Learn what was wrong in your marriage immediately prior to the affair. Focus THERE. Fix THAT.

And fix your problem with selfishness.

SB- Thanks so much. That was just what I needed to hear before she arrives.

In the quote above, Are you saying that I don't really answer the question (or any question regarding comparisons) or is my answer "BW, you are prettier, funnier, more enjoyable, etc. because OW is just an ordinary woman and I strayed because of the fantasy and turned an ordinary woman into something she wasn't."

EC

EC, one more thing to consider. Please understand that while things may be looking up now, you are JUST BEGINNING on the road to recovery. It may take your BW a very long time to completely recover and her emotions may resemble a roller-coaster ride for awhile. Sometimes around the six month mark, the anger surfaces or resurfaces.

Thank God you guys have plugged in to MB so soon. Stay the course and you'll be just fine. Better than fine. You'll have a marriage like you've never had before. Stick around... trust me, you'll need us on this journey.

Welcome to MB!

PM, and I'm glad I found MB.

My BW did arrive here on Sat. night as planned. I did not see her upon arrival because her thoughts were that she wanted to delay seeing me until she got over the jetlag and got readjusted to the stresses of work and being home (and I had Mon/Tue night conflicts which I offered to cancel). The initial plan was the first face-face meeting to be on Wed. night Our weekend is Thur/Fri and the schedule was open for the entire weekend.

Last night she called to say she wanted to meet sooner, tonight (Mon) and she knew I had Mon conflicts but had offered to cancel the plans. I'm doing that and will see her tonight.

She tells me that she wants to meet sooner than planned because she wants to get out of the way the initial shock/anger of seeing me for the first time since she departed 24 hours after D-Day (about 19 days ago) and she has a long list of questions as she has now finished reading SAA. She wants our time together on Wed/Thu/Friday to be more constructive.

So, for me, I'm pleased that I will be seeing her tonight. The road is long in front of us but there are many beautiful sights along that road until we hopefully reach that magical place at the end of the road which is a new and better marriage.

Thanks to all for the words of advice. I'll be back with an update soon.

EC

When my BW returned on Saturday night, she came back to a house with red roses in four different rooms. Up until about six years ago, I used to bring flowers home regularly which was about once a week. Long story short, I quit doing that. I see now that affection is an important EN to her and yet what was I thinking for those six years in not bringing her flowers or offering her hugs and kisses (instead of when I wanted something)?

In about 30 minutes I will be seeing her for the first time in nearly 3 weeks. I'm bring a small gift and a dozen white roses. I hope and pray our meeting tonight is the first of many, many discussions (I'm counting this as part of the 25 hours of UA time!) we have as we build this brand new marriage.

EC

EC,

What I mean is to be honest, but not in the sense that you are brutal to her.

Your wife will ask for comparisons. The truth is that you were in a mental state of fantasy, and thought that the OW was something she was not. You had WARPED comparisons going on - so the truth is

that you WANTED to believe the OW was better

and she was ORDINARY.

Your mind worked up a fantasy of OW. You wanted to believe that there was a perfect person out there, and so you worked yourself into the belief that this OW would be "that" person: the perfect match for you, you would never argue, never disagree, and if you did disagree it would be a perfect manner of disagreement, she would always look perfect, smell perfect, dress perfect, act perfect,

in essence

your fantasy had this OW as being "perfect" in all ways for you.


Fact is, no one on EARTH could be this perfect person. Somewhere in the fantasy you decided this OW fit everything for you. You went back in your memory bank and chose all the negative things about your wife over the many years you were together, and CHOSE those things to compare your FANTASY to.

So you picked your wife's worst housekeeping day, and compared it to your fantasy of the OW's housekeeping.

You picked your wife's worst hair day, and compared it to your fantasy of OW's hair.

You picked your wife's sweatiest day after she worked outdoors all day landscaping the yard, and compared it to your fantasy of OW all dressed up to go out with you.

You chose your wife's worst moments, EC, and then fantasized your best fantasy

and of course, nobody could possibly measure up.


Your wife is bound to ask about your comparisons. She will ask if OW was "better" than she is in some way. How will you answer?

Be prepared to answer with the truth. And that is that you fantasized about an ordinary woman, and that the truth is that the OW is DIFFERENT, not "better". That is simply the truth.

In many ways, the OW is WORSE, because she cannot meet your needs the way your wife can ------

because your wife knows you, understands you and your history, has been there throughout your life, and knows the real you.

OW ONLY KNOWS HER FANTASY OF YOU - in the very same way that you know only your fantasy of HER.


Do you get this?

OW does not compare. This OW could have been anyone, because the affair is NOT about the other woman. IT is, and always has been,

about YOU.

SB

EC,

You didn't stray because you turned the OW into something she wasn't.

Part of the issue is because of your fantasy, certainly. You began to think about this OW in terms that were not real. You built her up into something that simply isn't true.

Something I know about affairs is that the APs get all prettied up for each other, so that when they see one another they look all nice and fancy and sexy. Is this true of you every day? Do you get all fixed up nice for your wife every day? Of course not - but I would ask, why not? Because you are not courting her, not trying to get her to believe something about you that IS NOT TRUE. Your wife already knows the real you. However, what might your relationship be with your wife if you DID make this extra effort - to look nice for her every day? Would this "kick it up a notch"???? I am here to say it probably would.

APs communicate frequently. They text, they call, they email, they send gifts, they write notes. These communications carry with them all sorts of nice, sweet cooing words of affection, devotion, and love. They trade compliments back and forth, and talk of sex and attraction and need for each other. They also talk of themselves, quite a bit. It is all based in fantasy, the ramp up to what they want. It is all a trade off - I compliment you, you compliment me....we feel good and this meets that ego stroke we are both after. It serves a purpose, all this talking - it shuts out the spouse, and creates a terrific fantasy, but most of the talking about the self is really

lies.

Because this talk is mostly made up stuff, designed to build the WS up to look attractive, and to tear down the betrayed spouse at the same time, so the BS looks like the kind of person who does not meet the needs of the WS.

I do wonder about something here: What would your marriage have looked like if you spent the time texting your wife, sending her flowers and gifts, sexy emails, leaving her notes, and Facebooking her - instead of investing that time in some ordinary woman? Had you invested the time romancing your wife, where would your marriage be right now? Had you talked about the feelings you were having, with your WIFE, as openly as you had with the OW.....imagine where you might be right now.


The other thing I know about affairs is that once you are in

you feel trapped by it.

While there is an excitement to it, you focus a lot on what you are doing wrong, why you shouldn't be doing it, and the pain you know you are causing doing it. You know that it will end, that you are stupid for doing it at all, and that you have no idea how you will live the future with this in your closet.



Now, you face the closet light being turned on. Man, is that light bright. You'll feel better, though, because dragging this skeleton around would only have gotten heavier and scarier as the years passed. And your marriage would have become worse, not better.


SB

Hi there! Our mutual fried Pio asked me to stop by your thread.

Above all remember this is a marathon, not a sprint. It will take years to recover from this and it will be a nasty vicious roller coaster. However full recovery is possible for the committed and your marriage can be better than it ever was.

Stay the course and work the plan here to rebuild romantic love in your marriage.

I also wanted to say that I hope your wife comes on these boards to talk about how she is feeling and dealing with everything.

I would like to caution her to ask only what she is comfortable knowing. That requires knowing oneself very well and thinking through all these things before you have the conversation. I knew that on day 14, for example, I wasn't ready to hear about various positions they used, but I was ready to know where they met up, how many times they got together physically, how it felt to sneak into a hotel together, etc. It sometimes helps to make a list of your questions and pick a few to go over each time you talk. I know you two haven't seen each other for a while so you probably will have a long "hash it out" session or two. But after that, try to limit A talk to mutually agreed upon times when you both feel strong enough to handle it.

And don't ever stop saying, "I love you and I am so sorry". It means alot when you don't know what to trust anymore.

Hey EC,

How are you doing?

Hello All,

It has been 5 days since my last post. The 5 days have been great overall. I put up a big LB on the night of Day 2 and that set us back 12 hours. We had the entire weekend to spend together and it was wonderful. We talked, cuddled, exercised, played 9 holes of golf and were as intimate as ever (probably more so). Yesterday, was back to work day and she was depressed. She woke up in the middle of the night and got to thinking before the sleep aids kicked in. We talked over a long lunch and she had questions about the A that she hadn't had since the first day. After a nice run after work, she was thankful of the lunch O&H conversation and she was in great spirits. Another great evening ensued.

Like everyone has indicated in the posts, she has ups and downs. More ups than downs although yesterday was proof positive that this is a marathon, not a sprint. She wonders how long until the A is a distant memory or even forgotten. She has read SAA and understands that it will be a long time, maybe years, and that length of time is difficult to grasp right now.

We are working out the ENQ. She has laughed out loud what I had indicated what I thought were her Top 5 when we discussed them in detail. It's been great to get to laughing again.

EC